.425 "Ultra Mag"-It's a good idea, RIGHT?

[uplander01]

Sometimes when addressing one problem to feed a rifle, like lack of brass availability, a person thinks of way to work around it. As I was previously educated on this site how to convert 375 RUM brass into 404 Jeffery brass. It works, but not in every rifle, visive, my rifle. But all is not lost as a guy can buy Hornady ammo for the 404 Jeffery and get brass that way, and occasionally when Norma feels the urge to actually produce something people need, you can find that on the market......or you can slum it and get 2-3 firings out of some Bertram. Which leads me to a different rifle and a different set of problems.......the 425 Westley Richards. Any of us that have studied the writings of the great hunters know that this caliber gets mentioned, it was actually a big deal at the time. We also know about its inherent unreliability unless it was of the Westley Richards center feed variety. SO, here in lies the question...... It's really easy to convert 375 RUM brass to 425 WR in body,....but the rebated rim case head is the problem. SO, in the wild cat world we live in, why has someone not created the "425 Ultra Mag"? This would eliminate the feeding issues of the WR rebated rim, creating a common bolt face diameter, in a standard-length action, throwing a .435 frontal diameter 400 gr projectile at around 2300 fps from a very compact rifle package, with an abundance of brass availability. Hammer, Hawk, Rhino, and Woodleigh all make bullets of this diameter that are perfectly suitable for big game........wouldn't this just be what the 425 Express wanted to be, only better?

Food for thought, maybe some of you other safari handloaders have some input on this topic?

 

[alby]

Sounds like the .425 No 2.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I think I’d do a 416 instead. Just more bullet selection.

 

[400Jeff]

Last year I got a deal on a new profiled barrel blank in .435 cal. I threaded it for LR Mauser 98. I rented the reamer/ H.S. gauges from 4D and set the headspace for two bolts, one standard for the stock 425 WR and one I opened up for basically the 404J, in my case, I use 338 RUM as I got 100 new R.P. cases locally. C&H had a neck sizer die in stock and I ordered a full sizer die set which they delivered in 2 months.
I trim the necks down to OA length, I made a step expander to open the necks in 4 stages with annealing every 2 steps and run it through the neck sizer to form and then the last pass through the full length sizer and anneal one more time. So far I have reloaded my test batch five times with full power loads and all is well.
As far as feeding problems blamed on the rebated rim, the jury is out for me. I have been trying for two years to get some factory brass to try it out and see how it feeds with no luck. Bertram is about the only one that supplies it to the U.S. but the vendor that operated Bertram U.S.A. shut down and neither of the two distributors that took over have any, or even list it as a stock item. Quality Cartridge's owner says he cannot get the proper sized blanks from his supplier since Covid so they are out. My rifle feeds just fine with the R.U.M. based brass and part of that reason, I believe, is that I cupped the mag follower so that it cradles the cartridge. A fellow enthusiast in Australia sent me an old article from, I think," Man and Magnum" that had information about the cupped follower that was supposed to be used in the less expensive "Game Ranger" rifles that were issued to African Rangers for animal control work. These rifles did not have the feed guides like the more expensive sporters and there were issues with feeding in service, but when the author(African) found some of these old rifles in storage at a government facility, most of them had a standard Mauser follower in them and had feed issues because of that. I sure wish I could get some brass because I feel that it can be made to work without the WR feed guides.
I am using Hawk 400 gr. bullets for load development and they shoot very well, my twist rate turned out to be almost 1-20 and you need 1-16 to run mono-metals above 325 grains, but lead core bullets work fine.
I like the idea of using .425 #2 Express as the designation for the cartridge using R.U.M. or 404 brass. I think thats what I will have engraved on the extractor on the secondary bolt for my rifle and just .425 Express on the standard bolt extractor. If anyone has some 425 brass for sale, please let me know!
As to using 416, anyone can have a 416 caliber rifle, I have several... but some of us just like to be a bit different!
Lee.

 

[uplander01]

Last year I got a deal on a new profiled barrel blank in .435 cal. I threaded it for LR Mauser 98. I rented the reamer/ H.S. gauges from 4D and set the headspace for two bolts, one standard for the stock 425 WR and one I opened up for basically the 404J, in my case, I use 338 RUM as I got 100 new R.P. cases locally. C&H had a neck sizer die in stock and I ordered a full sizer die set which they delivered in 2 months.
I trim the necks down to OA length, I made a step expander to open the necks in 4 stages with annealing every 2 steps and run it through the neck sizer to form and then the last pass through the full length sizer and anneal one more time. So far I have reloaded my test batch five times with full power loads and all is well.
As far as feeding problems blamed on the rebated rim, the jury is out for me. I have been trying for two years to get some factory brass to try it out and see how it feeds with no luck. Bertram is about the only one that supplies it to the U.S. but the vendor that operated Bertram U.S.A. shut down and neither of the two distributors that took over have any, or even list it as a stock item. Quality Cartridge's owner says he cannot get the proper sized blanks from his supplier since Covid so they are out. My rifle feeds just fine with the R.U.M. based brass and part of that reason, I believe, is that I cupped the mag follower so that it cradles the cartridge. A fellow enthusiast in Australia sent me an old article from, I think," Man and Magnum" that had information about the cupped follower that was supposed to be used in the less expensive "Game Ranger" rifles that were issued to African Rangers for animal control work. These rifles did not have the feed guides like the more expensive sporters and there were issues with feeding in service, but when the author(African) found some of these old rifles in storage at a government facility, most of them had a standard Mauser follower in them and had feed issues because of that. I sure wish I could get some brass because I feel that it can be made to work without the WR feed guides.
I am using Hawk 400 gr. bullets for load development and they shoot very well, my twist rate turned out to be almost 1-20 and you need 1-16 to run mono-metals above 325 grains, but lead core bullets work fine.
I like the idea of using .425 #2 Express as the designation for the cartridge using R.U.M. or 404 brass. I think thats what I will have engraved on the extractor on the secondary bolt for my rifle and just .425 Express on the standard bolt extractor. If anyone has some 425 brass for sale, please let me know!
As to using 416, anyone can have a 416 caliber rifle, I have several... but some of us just like to be a bit different!
Lee.

I see that you are down the rabbit hole like I am with the 425 LOL. There is some Bell brass on gun broker (albeit too expensive) but would work for your forming purposes and testing purposes. I am going to keep the 90 pieces of Bertram properly head stamped brass I have in case I get to take this thing over for buff. I cannot modify the bolt of the rifle I have,....it's the 1st 425 WR Griffin & Howe ever built, denoted on the barrel. Based on my playing around with it and the condition of the rifle, I'm guessing it never worked and for some reason never got sent back to GH. I made the decision to have the center feed conversion done and documented by Matt at MNR,....GH didn't seem to have much interest in doing it......quite frankly because I think their talent pool is extremely week for any real complicated work----(I personally think that GH is past their prime and I wouldn't have them do much for me at this point). I have multiple rifles from them and they have done some simpler work but it seemed difficult for them,..supposed they have at least one really refined guy moving over here from Europe to add to their talent pool. Could be a huge mistake having this done by Matt, as far as value, I don't know. I really want the gun to work, there is a story and some sentimental value in it for me which is for another thread. Beaks and Bullets In Canada has Bertram 425 WR in stock but its expensive, and the shipping is stupid. The rebated rim of the 425 case typically slides right underneath the bolt face about 3/8 to 1/2" or so into the stroke. If Matt figures that center feed out and once he has performed it, he may find that it isn't too bad and is repeatable quite easily...I'll keep you posted. It used to be a lot easier and cost effective to dream shit up and make it happen, doesn't seem like it anymore, even to buy blank head stamped 375 RUM brass from ADG they want 5000 piece order. Currently I have a guy on the east cost that I have sent some RUMM brass to to see if he can spin down the case head to match 425 brass,...if he can in fact do it, that would solve the practice ammo issue, then just keep a supply of Bertram around for travel use. I will add I have had very mixed experience with Bertram brass. I used to have a 500 Jeffery that I think I could have loaded the brass 15 times, think I actually got to 9 loadings and it showed no signs of issue, had a 404, tried using Bertram, terrible experience, case head separation after 3 loadings, and GH double checked the headspace of their rifle I had in this caliber. On the 425 brass I have from Bertram you can visibly see the 2 sides of the tube are thicker than the other two....doesn't make for a good brass case.

Lastly,...as far as soft points for the 425...I would not hesitate at all using hawk with a 60 thous jacket on anything you use softs on,...I think it would be a ridiculously good cat, bear, and large antelope bullet. And note, Hammer already makes a solid copper fragmenting soft point, and he will build whatever you want for a solid.....if you have him do that LMK, I'll add to the order.