.416 Taylor donor for .404 Jeffery?

[bruce moulds]

I once built a 300 wm on a post war fn 30/06 military action.
I actually broke down a military rifle to get the action.
this was one of the slickest actioned rifles I have ever owned.
I have been told that the metal in these actions is as good as it gets, and it was not made under duress of war.
If I were building a mauser now I would actively seek out one of those actions again.
the only action work for feeding was to open the rails slightly at the front to clear the belt on closing the bolt.
I kept the military floorplate, and would do so again, particularly on a dangerous game rifle.
the only semi finished stock I could buy was birdseye maple, and it came up a treat.
bruce.

 

[mark-hunter]

There is indeed no reason whatsoever why a DG (dangerous game) caliber rifle should suffer from more (or less) quality control issues than a PG (plains game) caliber rifle.

Thank you One Day... , for your time and for another excellent answer.

Now when I to come to think of it:
Possibly last year or so, I read one text of american well known author (D. P.) saying that as per his wast experience, in modern times roughly 40% of modern factory made rifles will have to go to gunsmith for some sort of debugging.

At this moment I have about dozen of various firearms, in different calibers, largest 9.3x62. (and now considering to buy DG rifle)
But looking historically - my average gunsmith debugging of new OOB gun, is around 50% per piece.

This means, that indeed you are correct, the stakes are higher in DG hunt, and for DG rifle it is wise to be checked well by a competent person (gusmith) for every detail, possibly upgraded (claw mounts come to mind, first) and well tested on the range before actual DG hunt.

 

[One Day...]

This is a GREAT thread, with all of the included expertise on this subject included! I have a newer CZ .458 WM which I really enjoy shooting. I love the heft of the rifle and MY action is very smooth. I’ve been kind of looking for a .416 Taylor since I have quite a few WM cases to form the Taylor cases from. Did/does CZ make their rifles in the Taylor cartridge? If not, what would one here suggest, without going to the expense of building/buying a custom rifle in the Taylor cartridge? I’m sure the .404 Jeffrey is an excellent cartridge, but since I already have the WM, MY logical next rifle would be the Taylor. Thanks!

Hello CoElkHunter,

To the best of my knowledge neither CZ, nor any other factory, ever offered a factory .416 Taylor (necked down .458 Win case, or necked up .338 Win case). I remember reading some years ago that an American maker was about to do it but was stopped dead in its track by Remington beating them to it by offering their .416 Rem Mag, itself a mere adaptation on their 8 mm Rem Mag case of the .416 Hoffman (necked up .375 H&H case).

Conversely, CZ did offer a few years back a factory run of .404 Jeffery. There are a few popping up on gunbroker.com, gunsinternational.com, etc. occasionally. They generally do not last long...

Harlan Satrang and his daughter Meagan, owners of Triple River Gunsmithing, the CZ USA designated custom shop, will happily chamber a CZ 550 in about any caliber you may want. They are currently putting one together for me in .300 Wby to match, for PG, my DG .375 H&H and .416 Rigby, all three with all the features required to make them "perfect" African rifles, including all the standard CZ 550 admirable features: double square bridge with integral scope mount dovetails, drop belly high capacity magazine, steel bottom, reasonably hefty barrel, integral rear sight barrel base, barrel band front sight ... PLUS: Timney direct trigger, three position bolt-mounted, firing pin-blocking safety (a.k.a. Win 70 safety), straightened and filled bolt handle, barrel band front swivel ... all of that nested in a Bell & Carlson kevlar stock with full length aluminum bedding block. They regularly put together CZ 550 in .416 Rem, it will be nothing to them to push a Taylor reamer in a .416 pipe for you...

All this being said, and in answer to your second question, unless you want nothing but a Taylor, which is a perfect reason, I would suggest you consider simply picking up a new CZ 550 in .416 Rigby from the factory for $1,200 or less (there is one, factory new, right now for $995 on gunbroker that I would jump on if I were in the market - but I already have one...). It will cost you less than half what you will pay for a custom Taylor, and quite honestly it is arguably a slightly more versatile cartridge (it can be loaded significantly faster to shoot flatter) with a wide availability of factory ammo/brass donor...

A final thought would be that since you already have a .458, you might be better served from a flexibility perspective, adding a .375 rather than a .416. Granted, a .416 is almost as versatile than a .375, but not quite, and it recoils significantly more, which makes it a bit harder to shoot well at 200+ yards as a one-rifle PG/DG option...

 

[bruce moulds]

my own experience of work required on new rifle has been less than 50% other than triggers and bedding, which has been 100%.
the only other than that was a sako that became ok when the barrel was replaced, and a ruger sold off as parts value as the stock split and it would not group.
bruce.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Hello CoElkHunter,

To the best of my knowledge neither CZ, nor any other factory, ever offered a factory .416 Taylor (necked down .458 Win case, or necked up .338 Win case). I remember reading some years ago that an American maker was about to do it but was stopped dead in its track by Remington beating them to it by offering their .416 Rem Mag, itself a mere adaptation on their 8 mm Rem Mag case of the .416 Hoffman (necked up .375 H&H case).

Conversely, CZ did offer a few years back a factory run of .404 Jeffery. There are a few popping up on gunbroker.com, gunsinternational.com, etc. occasionally. They generally do not last long...

Harlan Satrang and his daughter Meagan, owners of Triple River Gunsmithing, the CZ USA designated custom shop, will happily chamber a CZ 550 in about any caliber you may want. They are currently putting one together for me in .300 Wby to match, for PG, my DG .375 H&H and .416 Rigby, all three with all the features required to make them "perfect" African rifles, including all the standard CZ 550 admirable features: double square bridge with integral scope mount dovetails, drop belly high capacity magazine, steel bottom, reasonably hefty barrel, integral rear sight barrel base, barrel band front sight ... PLUS: Timney direct trigger, three position bolt-mounted, firing pin-blocking safety (a.k.a. Win 70 safety), straightened and filled bolt handle, barrel band front swivel ... all of that nested in a Bell & Carlson kevlar stock with full length aluminum bedding block. They regularly put together CZ 550 in .416 Rem, it will be nothing to them to push a Taylor reamer in a .416 pipe for you...

All this being said, and in answer to your second question, unless you want nothing but a Taylor, which is a perfect reason, I would suggest you consider simply picking up a new CZ 550 in .416 Rigby from the factory for $1,200 or less (there is one, factory new, right now for $995 on gunbroker that I would jump on if I were in the market - but I already have one...). It will cost you less than half what you will pay for a custom Taylor, and quite honestly it is arguably a slightly more versatile cartridge (it can be loaded significantly faster to shoot flatter) with a wide availability of factory ammo/brass donor...

A final thought would be that since you already have a .458, you might be better served from a flexibility perspective, adding a .375 rather than a .416. Granted, a .416 is almost as versatile than a .375, but not quite, and it recoils significantly more, which makes it a bit harder to shoot well at 200+ yards as a one-rifle PG/DG option...

One Day,
Thanks so much for your information on this! I too have seen that Rigby for sale on GB. It must also be a newer model as it has two receiver crossbolts? I do have a Whitworth Express in .375 and it is a great handling and shooting rifle. Yes, with the exception of the .375, I probably don't need a .416 OR .458, but they are so much fun to shoot (w/express sights so far) and am about to start reloading for the .458. A wintertime project, and I do enjoy reloading. Again, I was considering the Taylor because I already have the brass for it. Just need the dies and the rifle of course. BUT, you are right about finding a reasonably priced Taylor rifle. Most I've seen are customs and out of my budget range. So maybe the Rigby is the way to go? The Rigby brass and dies seem reasonably priced and available. Thanks!
CEH

 

[Nhoro]

Shawn
Thanks for all the in-depth pictures. I looked at your thread before and hats off to you. Though I am pretty handy with woodworking and have made a few knives from blanks I can’t say I would be going for this endeavor on my own. My plans are to work with a good GS and leave it to them. My dremel tool will stay on the work bench on this one.
Ed

I have a CZ 550 and it needed some help to feed correctly and I did it myself. But I have helped out at the Zim Guides and Hunters shooting exams (3 exams now and about 45 candidates in total). ALL makes of rifles threw up some failures and I could not pick out a problem brand for you. People who had no problems during the shoot were the ones who had practised and found the problems and fixed them before they came. ALL dangerous game rifles should be thoroughly tested and they fail when you are under pressure, not when you are plinking at the range. When you are under time pressure and working the bolt like crazy in the pressure of an exam (or charge). Fastest,cleanest shoot i saw in the exams was a 375 h&h with a Weatherby action (Shock horror at the heresy !) Not a mauser but boy was that action slick and quick.

A big cause of failures is the modern flat meplat solid. It is just awkward to feed. But it offers advantages in penetration so it is worth the work to get it feeding.

A good friend has a 404 J on a CZ 550 magnum action. Lovely rifle.My brother has a 416 rigby and I have the 458. All solid reliable rifles that feed like a machine and get the job done. I have seen ultra reliable Winchesters/Mausers/Dakota etc. Some needed work,some didn't.

 

[One Day...]

+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1
AAAAAAAMEN !!!