416 Taylor - Crimp Necessary?

[Luvthunt]

Lee made a crimping die for me for the 416 Rigby based on a dummy . The die is larger than en most dies and it only took two weeks. Great service.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Crimping is like insurance. You could go 10 or 50 rounds or more without a problem but it's the one anomaly that'll get ya. Sooner or later there is a reasonable chance that the zigs and zags will line up and a bullet will get set back from recoil or from handling. Just a matter of that one piece of brass that is soft in the neck or the neck wall thickness being a little thin... For plinking/target shooting/berm shooting, just like the sticky chambering of an oversized case... no big deal. But if you are hunting and have spent serious money and time and effort on the hunt, the very little extra time and effort to crimp correctly with a die that is relatively inexpensive seems like super cheap insurance to me. And just because the recoil doesn't set back a bullet in the magazine, doesn't mean a rough handling incident, that you may not even be aware of, won't.

The other nice thing about crimping is it doesn't hurt anything, especially when talking larger caliber, serious hunting ammo.

fourfive8,
I completely agree about crimping (in some fashion) with heavy recoiling rifles. When I bought these older Barnes from an OP here on AH, I didn’t realize they didn’t have a cannelure? So, my only option I guess, is a tapered crimp and load them with a medium powder charge? Why would Barnes or any other bullet manufacturer not cannelure their bullets intended for heavy recoiling rifles?
CEH

 

[fourfive8]

If you are talking about what is called an original Barnes cup and core soft point, then a Lee collet type FCD can be used to actually crimp slightly into the jacket at the desired location. But roll crimping with the shoulder in the seating die won't work so well.

And exactly... if they put a groove or cannelure in one location for a group of cartridges and average chambers/rifles then some will complain about the groove being in the wrong place. If they put two grooves in, they get tired of answering questions about which is the best groove to use for crimping or some re-loader would be unhappy that the upper groove shows when they crimp into the lower groove. Just can't win sometimes. But, yes! I wish they would put a groove in all the big stuff, 338 or 375 and larger- or better yet two grooves to give the best chance for best COAL in a particular rifle.

The other thing that you sometimes have to dig for and sometimes isn't even available in the detailed bullet specs is the nose length- from groove to tip. That is a very critical number by which to predict your COAL when seating to the crimp groove. Very important when purchasing EXPENSIVE bullets for the first time!! Some bullet manufactures are tuned in more than others and do provide that info. I remember calling one bullet manufacturer to get that nose length spec and the reason I needed it. His (customer rep or tech) response was "well to get the right COAL why don't you trim your cases to a length that will provide that desired COAL" huh? Yea right, if I wanted a different cartridge I would have gotten a rifle with a different chamber for that different cartridge--- that's what I was thinking but didn't say. I just said "thanks and bye"

 

[CoElkHunter]

If you are talking about what is called an original Barnes cup and core soft point, then a Lee collet type FCD can be used to actually crimp slightly into the jacket at the desired location. But roll crimping with the shoulder in the seating die won't work so well.

And exactly... if they put a groove or cannelure in one location for a group of cartridges and average chambers/rifles then some will complain about the groove being in the wrong place. If they put two grooves in, they get tired of answering questions about which is the best groove to use for crimping or some re-loader would be unhappy that the upper groove showing when they crimp into the lower groove. Just can't win sometimes. But, yes! I wish they would put a groove in all the big stuff, 338 or 375 and larger- or better yet two grooves to give the best chance for best COAL in a particular rifle.

The other thing that you sometimes have to dig for and sometimes isn't even available in the detailed bullet specs is the nose length- from groove to tip. That is a very critical number by which to predict your COAL is seating to the crimp groove. Very important when purchasing EXPENSIVE bullets for the first time!! Some bullet manufactures are tuned in more than others and do provide that info. I remember calling one bullet manufacturer to get that nose length spec and the reason I needed it. His (customer rep or tech) response was "well to get the right COAL why don't you trim your cases to a length that will provide that desired COAL" huh? Yea right, if I wanted a different cartridge I would have gotten a rifle with a different chamber for that different cartridge--- that's what I was thinking but didn't say. I just said "thanks and bye"

Very good points and information! I really liked your description and photos of how the Lee crimping die works on another thread. For now, I’ve already tapered crimped these bullets so I’ll see how that works out. I DID put a slight roll crimp with my RCBS bullet seat die on some 350gr Speer and 450gr Barnes TSX .458WM bullets last week with a medium powder charge. I’ll also see how that works out. I’m new to reloading these larger bore rifle cartridges, so I’m taking it slow? They’re not the .270, .308 and .22-250 rifle cartridges I’ve reloaded a lot in the past. Thanks!

 

[CoElkHunter]

I just got back from the range a little while ago. I FINALLY got around to shooting my Whitworth .416 Taylor with open sights. I shot my handloaded 400gr Barnes originals (no cannelure) with 70gr of RL15. I only shot it at 25yds as I wanted to just try my reloads. There was no bullet movement in the cases with just a mild taper crimp on the bullets. Considering it was difficult for me to see the front bead sight, I still had a 4-5” group with ten rounds. Terrible, but I’ll get better as I now know the bullets aren’t moving in the cases and the powder charge was correct. It’s a lighter rifle than my CZ, so I had to correct a bit for the recoil. And you can lose a large bullet case like this in the snow! Ha! Ha!

 

[CoElkHunter]

I just got back from the range a little while ago. I FINALLY got around to shooting my Whitworth .416 Taylor with open sights. I shot my handloaded 400gr Barnes originals (no cannelure) with 70gr of RL15. I only shot it at 25yds as I wanted to just try my reloads. There was no bullet movement in the cases with just a mild taper crimp on the bullets. Considering it was difficult for me to see the front bead sight, I still had a 4-5” group with ten rounds. Terrible, but I’ll get better as I now know the bullets aren’t moving in the cases and the powder charge was correct. It’s a lighter rifle than my CZ, so I had to correct a bit for the recoil. And you can lose a large bullet case like this in the snow! Ha! Ha!

 

[Laurie Colgrave]

Im getting ready to start reloading for 416 Taylor.

How necessary do you guys think crimping the cartridges is for this ammo?

My thoughts were its got a good bit of recoil to it (when shooting 400gr projectiles it produces roughly 25% more recoil energy than a 375 H&H shooting 300gr projectiles with roughly the same recoil pulse according to the Chuck Hawks recoil table), and that I should plan on crimping...

The problem is.. I cant seem to find anyone that makes a crimp die for the 416 Taylor...

Suggestions?

Hi mdwest
I bought a Lee factory crimp die for .416 Rem & got it machined to correct .416 Taylor length, PM me if you want me to measure mine!