416 Rug vs. 458WM?

[Norwegianwoods]

I understand where you are coming from, but I always reload and I make sure to buy plenty of brass so I am sure I have a good supply for a long time.
I don't have the 416 Ruger at the moment, but I have the 375 Ruger in my Ruger Alaskan and I consider to buy one in 416 Ruger as well

And I will for sure only own one without a muzzle break.
I just totally hate them!

 

[matt85]

And I will for sure only own one without a muzzle break.
I just totally hate them!

a fellow hater of muzzle brakes! any one who hates those wretched devices is a friend of mine.

-matt

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

a fellow hater of muzzle brakes! any one who hates those wretched devices is a friend of mine.

-matt

Pick me! Pick me!

 

[Velo Dog]

The .458 Winchester received plenty of well earned bad press back in the day.

I have wondered if Winchester made it so short because then they'd save money by not having to modify their standard Model 70 action very much, like they had to for the .375 H&H or, if it was to appeal to people who thought "short magnums" were as cool as they thought bell bottom pants were, or both.

Today's propellant improvements make it common place to shoot 500 grain bullets from the old .458 at 2100 fps, from a 22" barrel, with safe chamber pressure.

Also, just food for thought, there are a number of excellent 400 grain bullets (Swift A-Frame for one) in .458 diameter and the .458 loaded with same at about 2100 to 2300 fps would be a very fine large PG/lion/grizzly/moose getter.

My .458 repeater is in the Lott version but if it was the Winchester one, I would feel too put off by it at all (my only double these days is a caliber .458 Winchester Heym Model 88B).

As repeaters go, I have both a .416 Rigby and a .458 Lott but if I had to get rid of one, I would definitely keep the .458 as that caliber - live ammunition and reloading components as well - is more versatile and way more commonly available where I live, and in Africa both.

PS:
Muzzle brakes hurt my eardrums right through the plugs and ear muffs so, I will not have one.

 

[Velo Dog]

The .458 Winchester received plenty of well earned bad press back in the day.

I have wondered if Winchester made it so short because then they'd save money by not having to modify their standard Model 70 action very much, like they had to for the .375 H&H or, if it was to appeal to people who thought "short magnums" were as cool as they thought bell bottom pants were, or both.

Today's propellant improvements make it common place to shoot 500 grain bullets from the old .458 at 2100 fps, from a 22" barrel, with safe chamber pressure.

Also, just food for thought, there are a number of excellent 400 grain bullets (Swift A-Frame for one) in .458 diameter and the .458 loaded with same at about 2100 to 2300 fps would be a very fine large PG/lion/grizzly/moose getter.

My .458 repeater is in the Lott version but if it was the Winchester one, I would feel too put off by it at all (my only double these days is a caliber .458 Winchester Heym Model 88B).

As repeaters go, I have both a .416 Rigby and a .458 Lott but if I had to get rid of one, I would definitely keep the .458 as that caliber - live ammunition and reloading components as well - is more versatile and way more commonly available where I live, and in Africa both.

PS:
Muzzle brakes hurt my eardrums right through the plugs and ear muffs so, I will not have one.

PSS:
I meat to say "I would NOT be too put off by it all."

Likewise, I forgot to mention that:
Neither do I enjoy the considerable cloud of dust that engulfs the shooter and nearby observers (PH, Trackers, Camera Man, etc.) which muzzle brakes sometimes produce.
I have experienced this in very dry conditions/powdery earth under foot, when the shooter fired from a bench at the rifle range.
So, I am left to presume it would happen with a muzzle brake, under the same conditions, if the big game hunter was using the sitting or kneeling position, worse yet from prone - no thanks.
The "dust bomb" is already bad enough from prone with a conventional/plain old fashioned muzzle.

 

[JTEX]

My pick would be the 458WM, but with a caveat. I like the 450g monometalsn not 500g. What a slam!


.

 

[IronCowboy]

I probably still have enough 458WM brass and bullets kicking around to last my entire lifetime. I'll probably stock up on a bigger volume once I get the barrel in hand. Still got a bunch of 375 H&H and 416 Rigby laying around too, just in case I ever get back into those games.

If I end up going 416 Ruger, I'll just buy 500-1000 brass and be done with it, so at least I'd be confident that my son and his kids would be able to keep it well fed even long after I'm gone.

But... I think I'm leaned far enough now towards the 458WM that I can write the 416Ruger off of my list.

Then again, I'm a bit of a Ruger fanboy, so I've considered making it a point to own firearms in ALL of their proprietary cartridges (.204, 480, 327fm, 300 & 338 RCM, 375 & 416 - what am I forgetting?) I have the 204, 480, and 327, just none of the rifle cartridges).

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Thanks fellas for all of the advice.

I've pretty well settled myself back to a 458WM for the extra bullet weight, but I know ~10-15yrs ago it didn't have a good following. I've also gotten a little "spooked" by these posts on here - by fellas that have more experience on African Game than I'll ever have - that the 416's aren't suitable for super-weight game, which was contrary to what I'd heard/read/experienced in the last 20yrs. The 458WM also has the advantage of availability and I think has more staying power than the 416 Ruger, at least a better bet.

My only concern with jumping on the 458WM is that I'm trying to flesh out whether the Ruger standard length will handle that much recoil - both are 5,000ft.lbs, but energy doesn't mean as much to me as momentum - which the 458WM has in spades. I've been talking to Ruger a bit, apparently the M77 Magnum was the same dia bolt and same thickness/size receiver, just longer than the Long Action. Once I can confirm that, then I'll have no problem dropping the 458 into a long action Hawkeye.

And C'mon Jaco, gotta cut me some slack, hunts are PLANNED on paper I spend a lot more time building and shooting firearms than hunting with them, so that's part of the fun for me. I'm really just trying to clean house in my safes. I've owned over 300 firearms in the last 20yrs, more than 100 of them in safes right now, with a great number of which I just don't care about, but have needed/used/wanted at one point or another. I'm building two rifles for my wife and I right now based on the premise of "beware the man with one rifle" so we can use the same rifles for everything we hunt, no matter what country. I've had 5 "big bore" rifles suitable to this task in the last 15yrs, none of which I loved (all were great, though) - ideally I'll never own another one after this one gets finished. Everything I want, everything I need, nothing I don't.

Thanks again fellas!

Iron cowboy, no no no slack granted! we always as mentioned above analyze re analyze and then try to add something to make it a little more complicated for ourselves.

Both calibre's have proved themselves as more than adequate on Elle, buff, hippo and all big game in Africa and all over the world for that matter.

Powders and projectiles have come a long way and gave the WM a breath of fresh air, but then again the 416' s are well known for superior penetration.

It boils down to what you are comfortable with, as for getting edgy after reading some posts, I am a big bore fanatic! But I always try to consider all options and shooting abilities, when posting or discussing calibre's.

There are not many balanced opinions available when searching Nitro express forums or big bores 'R' Us!

My best always

 

[Norwegianwoods]

Iron cowboy, no no no slack granted! we always as mentioned above analyze re analyze and then try to add something to make it a little more complicated for ourselves.

Both calibre's have proved themselves as more than adequate on Elle, buff, hippo and all big game in Africa and all over the world for that matter.

Powders and projectiles have come a long way and gave the WM a breath of fresh air, but then again the 416' s are well known for superior penetration.

It boils down to what you are comfortable with, as for getting edgy after reading some posts, I am a big bore fanatic! But I always try to consider all options and shooting abilities, when posting or discussing calibre's.

There are not many balanced opinions available when searching Nitro express forums or big bores 'R' Us!

My best always

You can specially say the last sentence again and again and then some more
I have totally stopped reading them as it is almost totally impossible to get a good objective view about cartridges and guns there at all.

 

[Cable68]

Although I'm planning to have a 458 built, I'm a big fan of the medium bores. I like the idea of being ready for whatever might show up at any time. 9.3 through 416 fits that bill perfectly.

Just depends mainly on how much versatility or specialization you want.

 

[Tanks]

Well, one thing premium bullets give us is versatility. For example with 250gr CEB Raptors @2900+ fps the .458 calibers become a 300 yard PG rifle.

 

[Cable68]

Well, one thing premium bullets give us is versatility. For example with 250gr CEB Raptors @2900+ fps the .458 calibers become a 300 yard PG rifle.

True, but I like taking only 1 bullet weight with me at a time. It's hard enough keeping solids and softs straight, then add different bullet weights to the mix.......

 

[Tanks]

There is a hella deal on Gunbroker for a 458 Lott based on Model 70 CRF action. Basically a $4-5K gun for $2.5K. In disclosure, it is posted by a friend of mine and someone else just pointed it out for me.
Just the stock alone is worth the asking price of the gun. wish I was right handed.

 

[CAustin]

Picked up a Ruger #1 in 458 yesterday at Cabelas. Man did it feel good in my hands. But so did the CZ model 550 in 505. I would like to own one of all these guns we talk about on here. To bad my last name isn't Gates or Buffet. Ha!

 

[matt85]

the Ruger #1 in 458 was expensive? there's been one at the Cabelas here forever for around $1000 and I bet you could easily talk the price down. i considered picking it up myself but ive heard the Ruger #1 is very uncomfortable to shoot heavy calibers out of.

the CZ 550 in 505 Gibbs would be one id like to try though.

-matt

 

[Royal27]

the Ruger #1 in 458 was expensive? there's been one at the Cabelas here forever for around $1000 and I bet you could easily talk the price down. i considered picking it up myself but ive heard the Ruger #1 is very uncomfortable to shoot heavy calibers out of.

the CZ 550 in 505 Gibbs would be one id like to try though.

-matt

Read again Matt. CAustin said it is expensive when you want to buy them ALL!!!!!

 

[matt85]

pfft its not bad, you just need to eat less. if you have kids, put them to work.

-matt

 

[ActionBob]

I think a comment was that this rifle is to be the "beware of the man with one gun" gun... In which case it should be a medium bore for more flexibility. Looking at ballistics the 416 wins out for range and hits plenty hard for anything you care to hunt.

And if your a Ruger fan and can stock up on brass, you will always find plenty of bullets in 416.

I bought a 505 Gibbs just because it was for sale at a good price and I wanted it.. Would love to take it on a hunt and shoot a elephant, buff or hippo (on land) with it, but I do know that if I want to take the best gun for the job on really big game and to cover myself really well for any purpose, I will carry my 416 Rem Mag... It sure did a great job on my elephant.

 

[Kano]

No buffalo, or anything else for that matter, will ever be able to tell the difference between the two...

I fully second those who say to try them both and pick the one you're most comfortable with. Put the right bullet in the right place, that's the most important thing - and it's much easier with a rifle and caliber that suit you!