416 Rigby or Rem & is 20” too short?

[BB416]

I have not shot a 20 inch 416, but my Rigby came from the factory with a 22 inch barrel and a full length Mannlicher stock.
My 400 g reloads and factory ammo chrono at ~2350 fps. I did have to move from RL25 to RL22, but am using slightly less than max powder load to get the desired velocity.
I enjoy shooting it. Muzzle blast, muzzle jump, recoil etc are not noticeably different from any other big bore I have shot.
Love the gun and hope to take a buff with it in May!

 

[spike.t]

I have not shot a 20 inch 416, but my Rigby came from the factory with a 22 inch barrel and a full length Mannlicher stock.
My 400 g reloads and factory ammo chrono at ~2350 fps. I did have to move from RL25 to RL22, but am using slightly less than max powder load to get the desired velocity.
I enjoy shooting it. Muzzle blast, muzzle jump, recoil etc are not noticeably different from any other big bore I have shot.
Love the gun and hope to take a buff with it in May!

How bout photo of it

 

[BB416]

As requested

Sorry about the upside down photo. Not sure how that happened, or how to correct.

Brian

 

[spike.t]

Probably the same one I looked at at Paul's a few years ago now when it was new, as I know he didn't build many....possibly only one. But only had iron sights then. Nice

 

[Nevada Mike]

Shooting in low light, muzzle blast from that 20" barrel will really light up the night.

 

[Dirtdart]

Its been chopped Bubba the shade of the tree gunsmithing services ...strikes again

I just ran across your bubba comment. Really?

 

[ChrisG]

I'm gonna jump on the other side of the bandwagon for a moment here. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that the powder won't all burn in a 20 inch barrel... my honest guess is that it would all be consumed in a 14" barrel. Muzzleflash would be atrocious depending on what powder was used, but simply because the gases haven't had time to cool and are igniting when they come in contact with the air (dang Pascal...). The issue is that there simply isn't enough time for the pressure to accelerate the bullet. That's the reason for the reduction in muzzle velocity. Recoil would also be a little worse because the gun weighs less and the higher velocity and ignition of gases at the end (muzzle flash) all contribute to the rocket effect. That honestly wouldn't be a deal breaker for me... so you slowed a 400 grain bullet down to 2,200 fps... you're still outperforming a 450/400 double rifle with 24 or 26" barrels and I honestly don't think you'd have any issues with expansion or penetration when used within the Rigby's normal paradigm.

Even the slowest rifle powders are only slow when compared with high explosives. All smokeless powder burns fast... faster than black powder by long miles... if I liked the gun, I wouldn't let a 20" barrel dissuade me. In fact it may make it a bit handier.

 

[Rule 303]

Chris G I am going to say I am damned sure all the powder wont be burnt. Test with a 308 showed unburnt powder coming out of a 20" barrel. Now I know the 416 bore is somewhat larger than a 308 bore but the Rigby has over 90 grains of powder compared to a 308's 45 odd grains and the Rigby runs a slower powder-just-than a 308. 45-70 has all its powder burnt in 16" to 18" of barrel and runs about 50 to 55 grains of powder. The muzzle flash is unburnt powder igniting as well as the propellant gases that are already burning.

From personal experience I know a 375H&H with an 18" barrel throws out a lot of unburnt powder, is excessively noisy. Try sitting next to one at a range. I had unburnt powder on my bench and going through my Chrony.

 

[Red Leg]

As requested

Sorry about the upside down photo. Not sure how that happened, or how to correct.

Brian

Absolutely lovely rifle. And the mounts and rings are what they would put on such a rifle in house. As Spike notes you may very well have the only one.

But I really covet that big blue British thing behind it.

 

[Red Leg]

Its been chopped Bubba the shade of the tree gunsmithing services ...strikes again

As I remember, "Bubba", you are the one who bought the .318 Westley Richards action with the military barrel screwed into it.

I’ve been looking at a Rigby with a decent price on it with very nice custom touches on it. It’s a cz550, but the only concern I have is that it has the barrel cut to 20”. Is this a deal breaker or an upgrade? Why or why not?Also, would there be much velocity loss in the Rigby case? I love the nostalgia of the Rigby, but would I be better off with a Win 70 Rem mag that is good to go out of the box? (Similar prices, weight, and features) Thanks.

So, a .416 Rigby absolutely would work with a barrel shortened to that length. You will get a bit more muzzle flash/blast, but I am confident that you will get enough velocity. These rifles don't have any collector value, so the deciding factor for me would be the quality of the customization work. Were sights refitted and regulated? Was the barrel properly recrowned? Most importantly, does the rifle still balance comfortably for you. I tend to favor longer barrels - @spike.t who is also in this discussion (and who has infinitely more African experience than me) favors shorter ones. It is personal preference thing built around feel for that sort of rifle. But I would have no concerns that those 400 gr bullets are simply going to dribble out the end of the barrel in a mushroom cloud of exploding powder.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

24 inches is a good place to be with the .416 . 20 inches might work , but you really won't be getting the .416 worthy velocity.

 

[ChrisG]

Chris G I am going to say I am damned sure all the powder wont be burnt. Test with a 308 showed unburnt powder coming out of a 20" barrel. Now I know the 416 bore is somewhat larger than a 308 bore but the Rigby has over 90 grains of powder compared to a 308's 45 odd grains and the Rigby runs a slower powder-just-than a 308. 45-70 has all its powder burnt in 16" to 18" of barrel and runs about 50 to 55 grains of powder. The muzzle flash is unburnt powder igniting as well as the propellant gases that are already burning.

From personal experience I know a 375H&H with an 18" barrel throws out a lot of unburnt powder, is excessively noisy. Try sitting next to one at a range. I had unburnt powder on my bench and going through my Chrony.

Unburnt powder is usually partially burnt powder or a particularly dirty powder. The military did significant testing in the 40s and 50s on how internal ballistics work. There is a report and it included test from small arms all the way up to 155mm artillery, the consensus? All smokeless powder is consumed within the first 15-20 caliber lengths of the barrel. The flash is never unburnt powder "igniting in the air". Think about it... if it didn't burn in the barrel at 55,000psi and 3,000 degrees, it dang well isn't going to ignite in the air. It has way more oxygen than than the atmosphere by weight in each granule so it isn't waiting for air. The military concluded that muzzle flash is the flammable byproduct gases from powder deflagration igniting when they hit the air at high pressure. Since high pressure=high temperature, it make sense that muzzle flash mitigates with longer barrels where muzzle pressure is low. It also explains why breaking up those gases, rapidly cooling them and messing with their fuel air mix lessens flash (flash hider). If powder isn't burning in a guns barrel, it isn't because it didn't get the time it needed to ignite or didn't have enough barrel... It's because it didn't ignite or only partially burned.

 

[Rule 303]

Chris G I will disagree with what you have said based in test that I have seen the results of, including high speed photography and as I said the powder granules that ended up on my bench from the bloke next to me. So the results I speak of were not conclusions from data but actual observable results.

 

[Milehighshooter]

A 400 gr bullet in the .300 SD range in the 2100 +/- fps range has been working for over a century. You'll get that with either 416. A Rigby going 2250 is not going to magically bounce off game animals while a 450/400 kills the same in animal. 450/400 made its name with a 400 @ 2050, 404 a 400 @ 2150.

However I wouldn't pay 1100 for a modified 550. Get that bad boy for $900 and now you're talking. Or, just buy a 416 Ruger Alaskan.