416 Rigby (Big Bore) - To Crimp or Not to Crimp

[KDF]

I am looking for some wisdom on crimping of Big Bore Calibers. I just returned from South Africa where I had the opportunity to speak with several PHs about reloading. The consensus was that they do not crimp .416 Rigby. In fact I was able to inspect several of their reloaded rounds, and they were all uncrimped.

My previous practice has been to crimp, because of the, perhaps only perceived, potential for recoil to move the bullets in the magazine. The PHs said that they had never seen this to be a problem.

I am going back for Buffalo in 2 months, and need to get to work on reloading 416 Rigby. Please let me know your thoughts / experiences. Thank you.

 

[mdwest]

I know a lot of folks believe in crimping.

Me personally, I don’t crimp any of my heavier kickers, past or present… multiple 300 magnums, 45-70, 458 socom, 375 H&H, 416 Taylor, etc…

Have shot hundreds upon hundreds of rounds out of each of them… and never experienced a problem from any of them..

 

[deewayne2003]

I’ve been crimping for the last 25 years and see no reason to stop.

FYI - you will also listen to PH’s and others talk about (insert random “logic”) is the reason you pull the back trigger on a double first - which is incorrect.

 

[Joker12]

Of course you should crimp. I speak from personal experience that bullets in uncrimped ammo can move both from recoil or just from being bounced around in the vehicle. Why take that chance when its so easy to prevent?

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Crimp or not to crimp ... ?

1. I listen to my PH about hunting. I do what they tell me. That is why I am paying them! But do they know anything about reloading?

2. PH's witness clients successes and problems, some of which may concern crimped cartridges. But, for all the hunters who load their own ammo and don't have problems, would the PH remember them? Would a PH conduct surveys of clients asking if the loaded their ammo and do they crimp and record the data in a spreadsheet? Most PH's witness a new client shoot at a 50 or 100 yard/meter target to learn if Joe Hunter can hit the broad side of a barn. If Joe made a cloverleaf of three bullet holes touching each other ar 100 meters, would a PH care? Who a PH start asking about Joe's ammo and who loaded it? If Joe was the loader, would the PH write down Joe's load data? Probably not.

3. As for a PH giving advice on loading ammo, how much loading experience do 99% of the PH's have? Those PH's probably do not have access to loading components like we do in western countries. Do they understand the importance of neck thickness and tension? Add to that case length... If not, then not crimping is a good rule.

4. Consistency is the key to accurate loaded ammo, be it factory or personal. Variances in neck tension can cause variances in pressure. Variances in overall case length will cause pressure variances when crimped in a standard neck crimp die. That may cause differences in muzzle velocity. Too much crimp pressure against a bullet could cause overpressure resulting in difficult case extraction. Maybe even case head seperation. Boy, that would really screw up a client hunter's day!

5. During practice I load up the magazine and shoot all but the last cartridge. Then I measure the overall length and compare against the OAL that I measured during final inspection of my loading process. If their is a difference three times, I know I should crimp. Once may be a random occurrence, twice may be coincidence, but three times is a pattern.

6. I prefer Lee Factory Crimp Dies. They produce much more consistent crimps than neck crimps by crimping along (longitudinally) the length of the case neck, rather than just at the very end of the neck.

Consistency is the key!

 

[Green Chile]

I crimp and it works for me but not just on heavy calibers. It certainly hasn't hurt me to crimp and it's extra insurance and consistency as Mark said.

 

[Shootist43]

I crimp, but I think Mark's testing regimen is the optimal way to go. IMHO neck tension is the "Elephant" in this room.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I've measured rounds down in the magazine prior to and after firing another obviously in the chamber. I haven't done this on every rifle, but a couple. Without question the rounds became shorter. Will this be the case in all rifle/caliber combinations? I wouldn't be surprised if not. But after this experience I always crimp. I also prefer the Lee FCD.

With the Lee FCD, once set and I get started, I'd guess about 5 minutes or so to crimp an entire box of 50. Maybe 10 minutes total. So why not crimp? I think that's the question that should be asked.

The only time I see not crimping is for the long range shooters. If they're loading one at a time, I can see that. But for hunting situations I don't.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I recently "accidentally" purchased online a box of old Barnes 400 gr "X" bullets for my 404J. No canalure or grooves on them so I reset my dies to not crimp. Figured I would use them at the range to work up loads. I found these cartridges were MUCH easier to pound out bullets to change powder loads. Some bullets were in fact WAY too easy to pound out - as in just a whack or two with the hammer. My ten pound 404 may be "relatively" light for thumper gun recoil but it still shakes me up significantly and will kiss my eyebrow if I don't hang on tight (even with +4" eye relief!). No way am I going after dangerous game with bullets that slippery stuffed in its magazine. I suspect with a full box and maximum follower spring tension, the potention for bullet movement in cases during firing might be less. But with one or two rounds only in the gun I would be especially concerned. Also, my reloaded rounds are inside hard plastic boxes. There's a very real possibility of bullet movement in uncrimped cartridges during flights to Africa. I have seen the rough treatment baggage apes can dish out to luggage!

 

[Inline6]

I do not crimp. I do my best to get 100% fill on powder. If that is achieved, the bullet has no where to go. JMHO

 

[Green Chile]

I've measured rounds down in the magazine prior to and after firing another obviously in the chamber. I haven't done this on every rifle, but a couple. Without question the rounds became shorter. Will this be the case in all rifle/caliber combinations? I wouldn't be surprised if not. But after this experience I always crimp. I also prefer the Lee FCD.

With the Lee FCD, once set and I get started, I'd guess about 5 minutes or so to crimp an entire box of 50. Maybe 10 minutes total. So why not crimp? I think that's the question that should be asked.

The only time I see not crimping is for the long range shooters. If they're loading one at a time, I can see that. But for hunting situations I don't.

This is my thinking as well. I don't crimp for my Sharps rifles, etc. I also like the Lee FCD and use them a lot. Very easy and quick to run a box through it.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I do not crimp. I do my best to get 100% fill on powder. If that is achieved, the bullet has no where to go. JMHO

So you're thinking gunpowder cannot be compressed? I'd like to see some proof. Seems I recall reading exactly the opposite.

 

[Skshyk]

I usually never crimp, but my last trip to Africa I had 1 round in my ammo belt which the bullet and been pressed into the cartridge. It was a nosler solid in 375. I will be crimping from now on especially hunting rounds.

 

[Inline6]

So you're thinking gunpowder cannot be compressed? I'd like to see some proof. Seems I recall reading exactly the opposite.

No that is not what I'm saying, gunpowder can be compressed that's why you can fill above 100% and still seat a bullet. Have you reloaded a compressed charge?

What I'm saying is I have not had problems with bullets moving. Add to that a 100%+ case fill with powder. The bullet moving under recoil would be unlikely.

 

[KDF]

Crimp or not to crimp ... ?

1. I listen to my PH about hunting. I do what they tell me. That is why I am paying them! But do they know anything about reloading?

2. PH's witness clients successes and problems, some of which may concern crimped cartridges. But, for all the hunters who load their own ammo and don't have problems, would the PH remember them? Would a PH conduct surveys of clients asking if the loaded their ammo and do they crimp and record the data in a spreadsheet? Most PH's witness a new client shoot at a 50 or 100 yard/meter target to learn if Joe Hunter can hit the broad side of a barn. If Joe made a cloverleaf of three bullet holes touching each other ar 100 meters, would a PH care? Who a PH start asking about Joe's ammo and who loaded it? If Joe was the loader, would the PH write down Joe's load data? Probably not.

3. As for a PH giving advice on loading ammo, how much loading experience do 99% of the PH's have? Those PH's probably do not have access to loading components like we do in western countries. Do they understand the importance of neck thickness and tension? Add to that case length... If not, then not crimping is a good rule.

4. Consistency is the key to accurate loaded ammo, be it factory or personal. Variances in neck tension can cause variances in pressure. Variances in overall case length will cause pressure variances when crimped in a standard neck crimp die. That may cause differences in muzzle velocity. Too much crimp pressure against a bullet could cause overpressure resulting in difficult case extraction. Maybe even case head seperation. Boy, that would really screw up a client hunter's day!

5. During practice I load up the magazine and shoot all but the last cartridge. Then I measure the overall length and compare against the OAL that I measured during final inspection of my loading process. If their is a difference three times, I know I should crimp. Once may be a random occurrence, twice may be coincidence, but three times is a pattern.

6. I prefer Lee Factory Crimp Dies. They produce much more consistent crimps than neck crimps by crimping along (longitudinally) the length of the case neck, rather than just at the very end of the neck.

Consistency is the key!

Mark,

I think that the testing/measuring process you describe is the way to go. I will report back with my results. Thanks.