416 Ribgy or 458 Lott

[DCH Hunting]

Hi " Nighthawk"

Great question and congrats on deciding to hunt DG when you retire -- Wish I was there yet!!
I own and regularly shoot a 416 Rigby ( scoped SW Z8 2-6 Variable ) , 465H&H ( V - Express sight ) and have a R8 338L ( Scoped ) for Plains game
I am not a PH
I am not retiring ( wish I could ) but have been hunting DG for 30 odd years ( mainly buff and hippo ) See previous posts on AH
I started out in my 20's with a 375 and shot a lot of my buff with it. Perfect for buffalo when you shoot clean. Not so, if you didnt and "spooring" that buff in the Jess hoping to stop it when it comes for you.
Thus, I upgraded to heavier calibers ( not because I couldnt shoot clean ;-), but you only track one wounded buff in thick Jess feeling like you are carrying a pee-shooter if you dont have > 5500lb-ft in you hands.

Your (the) point of open sights on a double ( I LOVE my Double) is very valid, and as you get older, it sadly becomes an extremely important point of discussion. I circumvented that with removing my Express V sight and replacing it with a Trijicon Low Profile RDS. I dont care if it is not classic or whatever on a double!! The buffalo that will be killing you if the 1st shot wasnt placed also doesnt care. Confidence in shooting a heavy calibre is as much as handling the recoil as in placing the shot. I never used my double on buff > 50-60 y with my Express V sight as I wasnt confident enough to land the shot, so the Scoped Rigby came into play ( gunbearer always behind me with it ). With the RDS I am very confident on 60 y and will even go up to 80 y. It gives you great accuracy, so much so, that I mounted a RDS on my Rigby as well, the Scope "looks" over it.

465 H&H Woodleigh 480Gr SN at approx 2100 f/s @ 80 yards with RDS ( L and R barrels )
Small holes are 6.5 and 7mm ( from my boys)!!

Go with the gun that you desire, making sure you can handle the recoil ( extremely important), no use you have a 500/600/700NE and you are scared every time you pull the trigger because your arthritic shoulder dislocates ( just joking)

The debate about a double ( quick second shot ) or Bolt action ( 5-7 shots ) will never be laid to rest, that's why I got both ;-)

If you are at SCI in 2023 -- Look for Robin Hurt's new book - A Dangerous Game
I have written in it and so have most of the well known DG hunters ( PH and non PH ) on a wide range of topics including caliber choice

Enjoy and I am sure there are a few guys out there who are envious of your predicament

 

[IvW]

You should not be required as a retired visiting hunter to do any "stopping" of dangerous game.....get the 416 Rigby or better still a 404 Jeff....

 

[Desperatezulu]

The seller is an AH member as well. He dropped the price in this thread to $9500 https://www.africahunting.com/threa...beesley-left-hand-416-rigby-with-scope.58764/

This is a great suggestion - I don't see how the OP can come up with a superior solution for equal or less money.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Hi " Nighthawk"

Great question and congrats on deciding to hunt DG when you retire -- Wish I was there yet!!
I own and regularly shoot a 416 Rigby ( scoped SW Z8 2-6 Variable ) , 465H&H ( V - Express sight ) and have a R8 338L ( Scoped ) for Plains game
I am not a PH
I am not retiring ( wish I could ) but have been hunting DG for 30 odd years ( mainly buff and hippo ) See previous posts on AH
I started out in my 20's with a 375 and shot a lot of my buff with it. Perfect for buffalo when you shoot clean. Not so, if you didnt and "spooring" that buff in the Jess hoping to stop it when it comes for you.
Thus, I upgraded to heavier calibers ( not because I couldnt shoot clean ;-), but you only track one wounded buff in thick Jess feeling like you are carrying a pee-shooter if you dont have > 5500lb-ft in you hands.

Your (the) point of open sights on a double ( I LOVE my Double) is very valid, and as you get older, it sadly becomes an extremely important point of discussion. I circumvented that with removing my Express V sight and replacing it with a Trijicon Low Profile RDS. I dont care if it is not classic or whatever on a double!! The buffalo that will be killing you if the 1st shot wasnt placed also doesnt care. Confidence in shooting a heavy calibre is as much as handling the recoil as in placing the shot. I never used my double on buff > 50-60 y with my Express V sight as I wasnt confident enough to land the shot, so the Scoped Rigby came into play ( gunbearer always behind me with it ). With the RDS I am very confident on 60 y and will even go up to 80 y. It gives you great accuracy, so much so, that I mounted a RDS on my Rigby as well, the Scope "looks" over it.

View attachment 499721View attachment 499722

465 H&H Woodleigh 480Gr SN at approx 2100 f/s @ 80 yards with RDS ( L and R barrels )
Small holes are 6.5 and 7mm ( from my boys)!!

Go with the gun that you desire, making sure you can handle the recoil ( extremely important), no use you have a 500/600/700NE and you are scared every time you pull the trigger because your arthritic shoulder dislocates ( just joking)

The debate about a double ( quick second shot ) or Bolt action ( 5-7 shots ) will never be laid to rest, that's why I got both ;-)

If you are at SCI in 2023 -- Look for Robin Hurt's new book - A Dangerous Game
I have written in it and so have most of the well known DG hunters ( PH and non PH ) on a wide range of topics including caliber choice

Enjoy and I am sure there are a few guys out there who are envious of your predicament

Thank you for such a thoughtful response. I really appreciate it and everyone’s input and responses. Very helpful!

Like a lot of people here, I started with a Daisy Red Ryder and killed a million little green plastic army men and fence lizards honing my open sight skills. Moved on to .22’s and shot another million cans and bottles.

I couldn’t afford to rifle hunt until I got into my mid 30’s. I also lacked the experience to hunt with rifles. My grandfather, who grew up in south during the depression had to hunt and trap to survive. His well worn rifles were around, but he was too old and tired to enjoy them by the time I was of age. I got my uncles to take me out shooting, but neither of them were hunters.

I always dreamed of hunting in Africa as a kid. Watching hunting movies and reading about it… Never missed a Mutual of Omahas’ Wild Kingdom episode! But I had to wait until I could afford to hunt and, more importantly, I had to learn how. I spent my 20’s and 30’s building a career working for others and creating my own business. I enjoyed bird hunting and fishing in the meantime.

Now I’m almost 52 and truly living in the moments given me.

I admire much of what I read of yours, and others experiences here on AH, and look forward to sharing more of my own.

Thanks again and keep them coming!

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

You should not be required as a retired visiting hunter to do any "stopping" of dangerous game.....get the 416 Rigby or better still a 404 Jeff....

Understood. I was looking at a way to understand the significant difference between the two calibers…

 

[RLMetz]

Since elephant is going to be on the menu, my proposition would be a custom .458 Lott built on a left handed Granite Mountain Arms African Magnum Mauser action. Either by Joe Smithson or Reto Buehller or Ryan Breeding (although I’m not sure if Mr. Breeding is still in the business).

Of course, you definitely can’t go wrong with the .416 Rigby either. Remember that it’s always better to hunt with a smaller caliber that you can handle well than a bigger caliber which you handle poorly.

For doubles, I’d strongly go with Heym. Caliberwise, I’d strongly recommend the .470 Nitro Express for you.

HH, and others here, I have heard of GMA Mauser actions in lefty but not the builders you mention. Can you provide more details of these builders such as their company names for contact? I may do a custom big bore lefty build, as you describe, in the coming years. Thanks.

 

[Scott CWO]

Thank you for such a thoughtful response. I really appreciate it and everyone’s input and responses. Very helpful!

Like a lot of people here, I started with a Daisy Red Ryder and killed a million little green plastic army men and fence lizards honing my open sight skills. Moved on to .22’s and shot another million cans and bottles.

I couldn’t afford to rifle hunt until I got into my mid 30’s. I also lacked the experience to hunt with rifles. My grandfather, who grew up in south during the depression had to hunt and trap to survive. His well worn rifles were around, but he was too old and tired to enjoy them by the time I was of age. I got my uncles to take me out shooting, but neither of them were hunters.

I always dreamed of hunting in Africa as a kid. Watching hunting movies and reading about it… Never missed a Mutual of Omahas’ Wild Kingdom episode! But I had to wait until I could afford to hunt and, more importantly, I had to learn how. I spent my 20’s and 30’s building a career working for others and creating my own business. I enjoyed bird hunting and fishing in the meantime.

Now I’m almost 52 and truly living in the moments given me.

I admire much of what I read of yours, and others experiences here on AH, and look forward to sharing more of my own.

Thanks again and keep them coming!

Dang, like you, I loved Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom and watched it every Sunday night that I could! Thanks for bringing back that memory.

The last time I saw my paternal grandfather alive was when we went deer hunting in 1980. I will never forget that trip. He died shortly after that trip. He was a great hunter and fisherman and got me started. Although I had an earlier start, we seem to have lots in common.

I have two .375 H&H bolt action rifles. From there, my collection jumps up to the .458 Lott. I love the Lott for buffalo with softs and elephant with solids and also use it as a stopper when guiding brown bears. Either the .416 Rigby, the Lott or the .450 Rigby would serve you well. If you go with the Lott, you might consider a reworked CZ because the CZ holds five down, which I love. Don’t trust a CZ in .458 Lott to feed perfectly until it’s been cleaned up by a competent gunsmith like Wayne at AHR or the guys that he is now suggesting.

I really wanted a good double rifle in .470 NE but my eyes don’t work the best with just open sights and I wouldn’t want to scope a double rifle.

Good luck with your search!

 

[Hunter-Habib]

HH, and others here, I have heard of GMA Mauser actions in lefty but not the builders you mention. Can you provide more details of these builders such as their company names for contact? I may do a custom big bore lefty build, as you describe, in the coming years. Thanks.

Big Bore Rifles | Ryan Breeding Rifles | Safari Rifles

Ryan Breeding and Rifle Maker Gil Van Horn (208-288-2158) have joined together to make the most innovative and dependable safari rifle located in Nampa, ID

www.rbbigbores.com

Buehler Custom Sporting Arms LLC

Best quality custom guns built to order.

www.customsportingarms.com

JP Smithson Gunmaker

Maker of Fine Custom Hunting Rifles

www.smithson-gunmaker.com

 

[RLMetz]

Big Bore Rifles | Ryan Breeding Rifles | Safari Rifles

Ryan Breeding and Rifle Maker Gil Van Horn (208-288-2158) have joined together to make the most innovative and dependable safari rifle located in Nampa, ID

www.rbbigbores.com

Buehler Custom Sporting Arms LLC

Best quality custom guns built to order.

www.customsportingarms.com

JP Smithson Gunmaker

Maker of Fine Custom Hunting Rifles

www.smithson-gunmaker.com

Thank you!

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I agree that a visiting DG hunter should never have to be the one doing the stopping, but S--t happens just recently a very well known Zimbabwe PH was hooked by a previously unwounded buffalo. The PH was using a bolt action .460 Weatherby he was able to get off one shot at almost point blank range before the buff got him. It is unclear who brought the buff down his tracker or the client.

If I had been the client I certainly would not have been saying "I am so happy that I bought the lightest rifle possible with the minimum legal caliber".

This scenario does not happen very often, but once is all it takes.
Lon

 

[WAB]

Having been on a follow-up on wounded buffalo with a .375 H&H and a .458 Lott, I feel much better with the Lott in my hands. The trackers and PH are amazing, but in a situation like that trouble can come from any direction.

 

[grand veneur]

I have regularly hunted buffalos in Burkina Faso over several years. I was only guided by a local guide who was armed with a single shot shotgun 12ga and accompanied by a few Trackers. I had for this reason to do the backup myself. Also with elephants we had problems more than once and I almost had to shoot one once. In such cases one feels better armed with an rifle caliber 460 WBY-Magnum than with an rifle caliber 375 H&H Magnum.

 

[dchamp]

@NIGHTHAWK here is a book that might be of interest to you. It’s from Safari Press ($39.95) but seem to not have it in stock, presently. Amazon has it available on Kindle for $11.49. It’s a good read and gets into the differences between calibers and rifles.

 

[grand veneur]

It is a good book, but it's above all about elephant hunting.

 

[bowjijohn]

Though I love and respect the .375 I don’t have one

I have …

9.3 x 62 which is a mild recoiling “hunting for the pot” calibre

404 j - mild(er) recoiling DG (and shooting for the pot) round. As time goes by I’ll probably only take this as an all round hunting calibre

I shall add a Blaser 458 Lott or 500 jeff barrel as a stopping calibre if I am to continue with educational groups in the bush

I’ve tried 500 NE

But not tried 500 Jeff - though I’d be very interested to see how I got on with it

I found that the 505 Gibbs was a bit sharp, as was 460 weatherby

I met my nemesis with a light weight double rifle in 600 NE - no thanks !

after all this waffle talking about myself I’ll address the original question and suggest 404 Jeff or 416 if you are not taking your .375

or Lott if you are

that said - it is such a personal choice that is difficult to comment on another’s preference

However

just as there are no atheists in a front line scrape when under fire - I’ve yet to meet anyone wishing they had some ‘Carlos fandango’ high vel precision instrument when faced by the enormity of an irritated member of the big 5 club

 

[DCH Hunting]

You should not be required as a retired visiting hunter to do any "stopping" of dangerous game.....get the 416 Rigby or better still a 404 Jeff....

Jip, I agree with you.

BUT trouble comes in all manners of situations, some most likely only once in history. Better to plan for the worst and hope for the best that the otherway round....

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Recently an unnamed hunter made a heart shot on buffalo bull not knowing there was another bull standing behind the first one. The second hit the heart lung area, both buffalo died in a short distance.

Both bullets are the same bullet just different angles. Caliber .458 Lott can anyone identify what brand of soft this might be.

Lon

 

[Joeyrdfarms]

I have a Blaser R8 with .375 and .458 Lott barrels. You will be hard pressed to find a finer rifle anywhere. With those two calibers you can confidently hunt anything in Africa. Some will comment on the mechanical malfunctioning of the R8, but mine has worked flawlessly after being dragged some 400 yards through sand to get close to a bull hippo. Both calibers will group under one inch at 100 yards with factory Federal premium ammo. Just my opinion.

 

[IvW]

Jip, I agree with you.

BUT trouble comes in all manners of situations, some most likely only once in history. Better to plan for the worst and hope for the best that the otherway round....

True but no need to plan for the end of the world african safari....
Get a caliber you can shoot well and place your first shot where it needs to go nothing more nothing less...
Many many charges have been stopped by 404 Jeff and 416 Rigby....
If you get in that situation and you still die after failing to stop whatever it is your time anyway and a bigger caliber wont save your bacon....those are the odds anyway....
You have a bigger chance of dying in a plane crash on the way over....

 

[Nhoro]

I would also recommend a 404. The difference is the 416 rigby has a higher velocity and a smaller diameter. The 416 rigby will have deeper penetration but more recoil, all other things being equal. In a charge situation, I would say they are probably about equal, one has a bigger diameter and the other deeper penetration.

I shoot a 458 Lott and to be honest prefer shooting my rifle to my friends (lighter) 416 rem and even a particularly light 375 H&H. But my brothers rifle(same as mine but 416 rigby) has a sharper recoil but maybe less recoil. Weight and stock design make a big difference. And being a lefty kind of closes down your options. I have a CZ 550 and would favour a left handed mauser action but those are rarer than hens teeth. The Blaser R8 is a nice reliable rifle. It has more little parts and tighter tolerances than a rough and ready mauser and needs a little more daily attention but keep it clean and it will serve you well. A Heym would be awesome if your can afford it and I saw a Satterly this year that was sweet-dont know if he does lefties but that was a beautiful gun. I also like the Dakota actions if you can find one in left handed config.