416 Rem Powder Recommendations

[BourbonTrail]

Trying to load 400gr CEB Solids to 2400fps in my 416 Rem Mag.

I wanted to use Varget that I already have, but it might be too low velocity for a 1:14” twist barrel.

Cutting Edge sent me load data stating 2384 fps is max MV for Varget. Which tells me I will end up a little south of that in order to have buffer. Is ~2350 fps enough to achieve terminal stability?

I just wanted to know if I should shop around before I start load development, or can I make Varget work.

 

[Green Chile]

2350 is a great terminal velocity in a 416 with 400's. I've used that recipe many times on all types of DG and PG, including a trip I just got back from. As another option, have you looked at H4895? I actually run that at 2325-2350 with the above results. I just like that powder better and it's easier to get.

 

[BourbonTrail]

2350 is a great terminal velocity in a 416 with 400's. I've used that recipe many times on all types of DG and PG, including a trip I just got back from. As another option, have you looked at H4895? I actually run that at 2325-2350 with the above results. I just like that powder better and it's easier to get.

I think they had some at the store here in town. I do remember that powder listed on some of the Barnes data.

I will definitely keep an eye out.

 

[JimW]

You might try TAC powder, which will give you more velocity than Varget, a powder which I really like also. Recently I have been loading the 350gr Barnes TTSX, and have had excellent results. Barnes lists max at 80.9gr for the 350gr bullets. With 80gr I get 2660fps with a 22in barrel. That is about 120fps faster than I can get with Varget. One caution, I am loading these at 3.7in long, as I have a CZ action which allows me to load them longer. Loading the 400gr Barnes, I still have about 0.100 to the lands. This allows me to load more powder without having to compress the loads, and I see less pressure. I intend to experiment with TAC using the 400gr Barnes in the future.

 

[Joker12]

I have had excellent results in mine using IMR4064.

 

[jwp475]

2000MR and/or CFE223 are excellent powders for 350 grain TSX or TTSX

 

[ldmay375]

I would try the give the 2000-MR a try with the 400 grain bullets also.
As mentioned in a previous post, as usual this is a different bullet. I don't know the how much bullet you will have in the brass with the 400 CEB vs this Bear Claw.

 

[BourbonTrail]

I finally got to shoot my velocity ladder for the Varget/CEB combo and topped out at 2360 fps for 74.4 gr of powder. I am tempted to just start focusing on accuracy between 73.6 and 74.4 gr of powder, but wanted to see if it’s worth switching powders or primers? I am using Rem 9 1/2’s, but I am considering Winchester magnums. Thoughts?

Note: no pressure signs observed while shooting at 93F temps.

 

[M70375!]

Trying to load 400gr CEB Solids to 2400fps in my 416 Rem Mag.

I wanted to use Varget that I already have, but it might be too low velocity for a 1:14” twist barrel.

Cutting Edge sent me load data stating 2384 fps is max MV for Varget. Which tells me I will end up a little south of that in order to have buffer. Is ~2350 fps enough to achieve terminal stability?

I just wanted to know if I should shop around before I start load development, or can I make Varget work.

I run 76 gr Varget for 2420 fps for 2 years now , no issues. Kimber Caprivi 24 inch barrel with 400 gr CEB. Just shot completely thru the head of the elephant I just shot, side brain.

 

[BourbonTrail]

I run 76 gr Varget for 2420 fps for 2 years now , no issues. Kimber Caprivi 24 inch barrel with 400 gr CEB. Just shot completely thru the head of the elephant I just shot, side brain.

This is more the powder/velocity range that I was thinking of, but their data sheet showed 74.4 as top recommended load. I may try creeping it up and see if I get pressure signs.

 

[Hannay]

This is more the powder/velocity range that I was thinking of, but their data sheet showed 74.4 as top recommended load. I may try creeping it up and see if I get pressure signs.

FWIW, I'm using H4895 with the 400 gr CEB solid and the 370 gr CEB Raptor. I settled on:
400gr CEB solid, 73,7 gr H4895, 2450 FPS
370 gr Raptor, 76.1 gr H4895, 2574 FPS.
The velocities were chronographed; fired from a Win Model 70. Those shot "close enough" to same POI.

I was able to get higher velocities, but comparing to a range of data with different powders from the Pierre van der Walt book, I decided to back down to the above loads. I brought the rifle and ammunition to Zim for a leopard/croc/hippo safari, but ended up shooting everything with my 375 H&H, also with CEB bullets.

 

[michael458]

I wanted to use Varget that I already have, but it might be too low velocity for a 1:14” twist barrel.

You are correct to consider the twist rate in .416 calibers when it comes to Solid Terminal Performance, and terminal stability. Velocity can make a difference with 1:14. But even at lower velocity performance is not to far out of spec. We tested this in 2011 with the 400 CEB #13s.

416 B&M with 400s at 2259 fps and 1:14 twist rate;

Same with 1:12 twist rate;

And 1;14 twist with added velocity.........

FWIW, I'm using H4895 with the 400 gr CEB solid and the 370 gr CEB Raptor. I settled on:
400gr CEB solid, 73,7 gr H4895, 2450 FPS
370 gr Raptor, 76.1 gr H4895, 2574 FPS.
The velocities were chronographed; fired from a Win Model 70. Those shot "close enough" to same POI.

We did some tests in 2013 adn 2014 with H-4895 and I did not like the results I received. Now, mileage may vary with these things, since My H-4895 is not Your H-4895, along with primers, brass, rifle and other factors......... Also beware that I have had many rifles that would normally handle 65000++ without evident signs of pressures, but they were there when tested with pressure equipment.

12/11/13	400 #13 Solid	72/H-4895	Fed 215	2380	2370	10	2376	72296 PSI>>> 68 grs Retest
				73350	72296	2108	72296
12/23/13	400 #13 Solid	68/H-4895	Fed 215	2285	2284	1	2284	54193 PSI>>> Max Safe Load
				54335	54051	283	54193	Excellent PTs
1/2/14	400 #13 Solid	70/H-4895	Fed 215	2327	2321	6	2324	63003 PSI>>>MAX LOAD
				65088	60917	4170	63003	POOR LOAD—POOR PTs

I have had excellent results in mine using IMR4064.

I also had very favorable results in the test work............

12/9/13	400 #13 Solid	77/IMR 4064	Fed 215	2399	2398	1	2399	61600 PSI--Oehler 83
12/9/13	400 #13 Solid	77/IMR 4064	Fed 215	2403	2398	5	2401	62410 PS--PT 2
12/23/13	400 #13 Solid	75/IMR 4064	Fed 215	2376	2366	10	2371	59067 PSI

Another powder that showed good results was RL 15

1/22/14

400 #13 Solid

81/RL 15

Fed 215

2421

2409

12

2415

60600 PSI—Oehler 83

I did not test Varget, and to be honest, I really needed to test many more powders than what I did at the time, we had just come off extensive tests with 458 Lott and 458 Winchester with 416 dragging hind tit you might say, and I got a little bored with 416..........

 

[Hannay]

We did some tests in 2013 adn 2014 with H-4895 and I did not like the results I received. Now, mileage may vary with these things, since My H-4895 is not Your H-4895, along with primers, brass, rifle and other factors......... Also beware that I have had many rifles that would normally handle 65000++ without evident signs of pressures, but they were there when tested with pressure equipment.

Thanks Michael. Interesting. I was not measuring pressure, and it's certainly possible I was over pressure. IIRC, I went on Cutting Edge Bullet's advice (here) to start 5% low from any reputable lead core bullet, and then work up from there. Hodgdon lists 76 grains of H-4895 as max for a Hornady 400 gr bullet, so I went down 5% and worked my way up without showing any pressure signs, other than velocity being higher than what Hodgdon lists (2391 ft/s for the max charge; I was getting 2507 ft/s at 76 gr). Our results for velocity look similar:

 

[Rumrunner]

I used 75 gr A-2520 and Barnes 400 grn TSX FB. I didn’t take any data but they grouped well through open sights.