.416 Hawk Bullets on Buff

[DocHolliday]

Anybody have real world experience with these bullets on buffaloes? Would love to hear about it. I used their bullets with good success in past, but not when my life or my kid d’s life depended upon it.

 

[grand veneur]

I have no experience with these bullets, but I shot some buffaloes with similar SP bullets. The topic including the mention of the Hawk bullets for buffalo hunting was discussed recently very vehemently on the Forum.

 

[fourfive8]

Hawk jacketed bullets are a simple cup and core design. The only way to control expansion with that design is by jacket thickness. There is nothing to prevent jacket-core separation, no matter jacket thickness. Hawk is in business primarily to provide bullets for odd calibers. Otherwise, why bother with them when there are so many proven, modern and tough DG designs and brands out there?

 

[SETH RINGER]

HAVE RESEARCHED THE HAWK BULLETS IN .458 WIN-MAG AS A LION LOAD. I WOULD CHOOSE A "TOUGHER" BULLET FOR BUFF.

 

[sgt_zim]

Ammo is the least expensive thing you will bring to Africa. It doesn't make any sense at all to try and save $2 or $3 per pill when you're shooting a $10-15K buffalo or hippo.

 

[DocHolliday]

Gentlemen, I truly appreciate your replies, but the real question I posed was if there were anyone with real world experience in such. In the days of ammo component shortages, I was just exploring. Personally, I am a HUGE AFrame fanboy. They just are NOT available right now.

 

[sgt_zim]

Gentlemen, I truly appreciate your replies, but the real question I posed was if there were anyone with real world experience in such. In the days of ammo component shortages, I was just exploring. Personally, I am a HUGE AFrame fanboy. They just are NOT available right now.

https://www.northforkbullets.com/north-fork-bullets/north-fork-bullets/caliber-416/north-fork-semi-spitz-ss-bullet-in-caliber-416.html

North Fork 400 gr solid shanks are in stock, you can order directly from NF. I bought some 175 gr .284 from them just last week, they were delivered in 3 or 4 days.

Since A Frames are unobtanium in just about everything but 9.3 (and I've got 3 boxes of those left), I'll be ordering the NFs when it's time to start doing LD for my 404 Jeff

Might also check with Hammer bullets. https://hammerbullets.com/product/416-cal-400gr-stone-hammer/

They're showing their 400 gr Stone Hammer in stock as well.

And there's always Barnes TSX, the least expensive of all the Premium bullets

Never shot the Barnes. But I have the Hammers. The driving bands on them reduce pressure, and North Fork has similar driving bands to Hammer. Lower pressure and higher MV...never a bad combo for premium bullets.

 

[CZDiesel]

Hawk jacketed bullets are a simple cup and core design. The only way to control expansion with that design is by jacket thickness. There is nothing to prevent jacket-core separation, no matter jacket thickness. Hawk is in business primarily to provide bullets for odd calibers. Otherwise, why bother with them when there are so many proven, modern and tough DG designs and brands out there?

This is not exactly true, have you called Hawk and talked with them?

 

[sgt_zim]

This is not exactly true, have you called Hawk and talked with them?

Isn't Hawk a reproduction of the original Barnes?

 

[fourfive8]

This is not exactly true, have you called Hawk and talked with them?

Please explain since you seem to know about Hawk bullets and how they are made…

 

[CZDiesel]

Please explain since you seem to know about Hawk bullets and how they are made…

Or you could do what I did and call Hawk and actually speak to their engineer?

 

[Capt_Oscar]

When I did expansion testing on Hawk Bullets in my 404J, every single bullet separated the jacket from the core. When I contacted their engineer, he blamed it on yaw. Either via bullet alignment to the bore as part of my reloading methods or not enough twist rate.
My expansion test is dry magazine to simulate heavy skin, wet paper for fresh, 1.5" tree branch ( bone), a substantial amount of wet paper material to simulate a 20-24" wide chest cavity, finally water jugs to capture the final projectile.
Only one core made it to the first water jug. 2 bullets failed on the branch.
Woodleigh RN and A-Frames all made it to the second water jug.
I'm not a fan of "finding out" how a bullet performs on game. I prefer to know beforehand. Taking an animal's life shouldnt be an experiment (IMO).

 

[DocHolliday]

When I did expansion testing on Hawk Bullets in my 404J, every single bullet separated the jacket from the core. When I contacted their engineer, he blamed it on yaw. Either via bullet alignment to the bore as part of my reloading methods or not enough twist rate.
My expansion test is dry magazine to simulate heavy skin, wet paper for fresh, 1.5" tree branch ( bone), a substantial amount of wet paper material to simulate a 20-24" wide chest cavity, finally water jugs to capture the final projectile.
Only one core made it to the first water jug. 2 bullets failed on the branch.
Woodleigh RN and A-Frames all made it to the second water jug.
I'm not a fan of "finding out" how a bullet performs on game. I prefer to know beforehand. Taking an animal's life shouldnt be an experiment (IMO).

That’s quite the test. Good on you, sir.

 

[SLo66]

I think they are too soft at rifle velocities. At more subdued handgun speeds they may work well, and I don't know what you plan on shooting with them, but I have seen some spectacular failure with these bullets (complete core separation, etc.).

 

[Hunter-Habib]

They are not strong enough for Cape buffalo. The jacket & the core WILL separate, even if bone is bot hit. And yes, I know a very experienced hunter who used Hawk bullets in his .425 Westley Richards for hunting Cape buffalo. Long story short, the wounded animal had to be followed up the next morning and put down with a Wim Degol Vor Mantel 410Gr tombac jacketed round nosed FMJ solid through the brain. Postmortem showed very poor penetration with the Hawk bullets. Jacket-Core separation was encountered even before the bullets penetrated relatively deeply. He now uses Wim Degol bullets exclusively. I can provide you with his email address if you like.

Currently available bullets on the market that are suitable for Cape buffalo, are:
- Barnes TSX
- Hammer Shock
- Northfork Semi Spitzer or Cup Point Solid
- Wim Degol Stark Mantel
- Rhino Solid Shank

 

[ldmay375]

When I did expansion testing on Hawk Bullets in my 404J, every single bullet separated the jacket from the core. When I contacted their engineer, he blamed it on yaw. Either via bullet alignment to the bore as part of my reloading methods or not enough twist rate.
My expansion test is dry magazine to simulate heavy skin, wet paper for fresh, 1.5" tree branch ( bone), a substantial amount of wet paper material to simulate a 20-24" wide chest cavity, finally water jugs to capture the final projectile.
Only one core made it to the first water jug. 2 bullets failed on the branch.
Woodleigh RN and A-Frames all made it to the second water jug.
I'm not a fan of "finding out" how a bullet performs on game. I prefer to know beforehand. Taking an animal's life shouldnt be an experiment (IMO).

That engineer was digging deep for a reason. Bullet yaw, my ass.

 

[AZDAVE]

I used a hawk and woodleigh 650gr 577 BPE double on a giraffe in 2018. The hawk broke thew shoulder and made it to one lung. IT separated from the core and expanded over twice its size. The woodleigh hit about 2 inches father forward and expanded to .950 held together and broke the same shoulder got both lungs and heart and was resting against the far shoulder. The hawk I would use for cats and kudu and smaller plains game. Never on buff!