404 Jeffery Caliber

[Tintin]

I built my 404 on a standard 98 Mauser action, it’s a 3+1 with a modified'09 bottom metal, took a while for me to do, partly as I wasn’t in a hurry, but mostly because work kept getting in the way of the important things in life, such as my gun work. I sourced brass through Anthony George off here and projectiles through a good friend who sadly died of cancer before he could see the finisked rifle.
gumpy

Welcome Grumpy

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Sorry, my mistake. I see from your original post that your Jeffery made M98 is 3+1 and a safe queen. It doesn't hunt so snap over to carry one in the tube is immaterial.

Attached is a page from Duane Weibe's "Feeding and Function of a Converted Mauser" (reprinted without permission). See what a snap over extractor is supposed to look like.
View attachment 556585

My Jefferies a safe queen? Never I am a Zimbabwe PH. None of my rifle are safe queens be it my pre war .416 Rigby or my “go to George Gibbs .470 double.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Here is a picture of a couple of .404j’s that I own. The bottom one is a documented 1951 Jefferies which I added a Bell & Carlson stock. The second is an original Rigby .350r. Rigby rebored this rifle to .404j
3 rd. Mag. Neither reputable company decided the snap over extractor was needed Duane Wiebe wrote a nice little booklet.

 

[Dewald]

Here is a picture of a couple of .404j’s that I own. The bottom one is a documented 1951 Jefferies which I added a Bell & Carlson stock. The second is an original Rigby .350r. Rigby rebored this rifle to .404j
3 rd. Mag. Neither reputable company decided the snap over extractor was needed Duane Wiebe wrote a nice little booklet.

Lon, please try and post the pictures again, they do not show up. I would love to see the rifles.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

My Jefferies a safe queen? Never I am a Zimbabwe PH. None of my rifle are safe queens be it my pre war .416 Rigby or my “go to George Gibbs .470 double.

Sorry, my mistake. You said you needed to pull it from the safe and have a look at it. I made an incorrect inference. Do your 3+1 Mausers have flat or beveled extractor heads? According to Weibe, only the modern Mauser knockoffs don't have the cutaway inside the ring to allow the extractor to snap over.

I did have some trouble getting cartridges to snap over consistently when I finished my 404 build. I finally determined it was because the extractor was sprung too stiff ... way too stiff. With a properly sprung and installed Mauser extractor, one should be able to depress the middle of the extractor with finger pressure to pop the extractor guide out of its groove at the head of the bolt. My extractor was sprung on the bolt so stiffly I had to pry it out of the groove with a small screwdriver. By carefully bending the extractor (after removed from the bolt), I relieved some of the spring tension (actually considerable tension) and now it snaps over the cartridge rims consistently. When I bought this 8mm Czech action, I knew the ring was machined for snap over because the extractor face was beveled, not flat. Of course, I had to remove a lot of metal from the extractor claw to make it work with 404 rims, whether magazine fed or snap over. I think Weibe described that part of the project as more art than skill. An accurate description! The good news is 98 Mauser extractors seem to be fairly abundant so if one gets buggered by a less artistic novice artisan, it's easy to start over with another. Thinking back, I determined from looking at the extractor when it was loaded on the bolt that it probably was not a mate to it. The spring part was already significantly depressed (i.e. bent) when loaded. Looking closely I noticed daylight between the bolt and center of the arched pivot at back end of the extractor. I removed just enough metal from the concave pivot to make it rest evenly on the bolt surface. That relieved quite a bit of spring pressure on the extractor. The rest of the tuning was done by bending the extractor spring. And now it snaps over fine.

Since broken extractors have been known to occur during snap over (though uncommon for guns that are properly tuned for it ... e.g. military rifles) I will order a second extractor and reform it for 404. A spare extractor (and firing pin) is always a good thing to have in camp. Nice thing about Mauser extractors is they are easy to replace. Anyone with a couple of fingers and a thumb can do it in the field. In any event, when hunting dangerous game I will ALWAYS have four rounds in my 3+1 Mauser during the final stalk ... an empty chamber otherwise. I want the ability to quickly drop a fourth round in the chamber when buffalo are in range.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I mentioned that I took the rifle from the safe, because anyone who has a licensed firearm must store it in a locked safe, which must be bolted securely to a wall.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I mentioned that I took the rifle from the safe, because anyone who has a licensed firearm must store it in a locked safe, which must be bolted securely to a wall.

Same legal requirement here ... almost. Long guns must be stored locked. I understand handguns and ARs have more stringent storage requirements. I am unaffected so not fully knowledgeable. Left my handgun in the States when I emigrated (can't hunt with it here) and I have never owned an AR ... and never will.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Trying to post the picture again. When I mentioned the safe I referring to Zimbabwe only.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Trying again

 

[Rare Breed]

Lon, please try and post the pictures again, they do not show up. I would love to see the rifles.

I will be hunting with Lon in April and am looking forward to getting my hands on his several 404J’s!!!

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I will be hunting with Lon in April and am looking forward to getting my hands on his several 404J’s!!!

Rare Breed, they will be ready for you. All four + Liesl’s.

Pictures just will not attach?

 

[Matthias5662]

I own a 404J built off a .375 MRC action. After a lot of custom work, It shoots quite well. It chronos 400gr Hornady and Woodleigh handloads just at 2300fps out of a 26" barrel. Would I say it kicks any less than any other .40 cal safari rifle? Not really. It's all relative. Rifle weight and fit seem to be the greatest determining factors for recoil severity as far as my limited experience would suggest.

 

[Marc Ret]

Another reason is perceived recoil. My 416 Rigby and 404 Jeffrey are both CZ 550 models. Almost identical except for barrel length. Both wear identical Trijicon scopes in Alaska Arms rings. When both are loaded with 400 grain Barnes bullets at 2300 fps the 404 is a pussycat compared to the Rigby.

Are the weights of the two rifles the same? As well, are the stocks' dimensions the same? Is that 2300fps an actual chronographed load from each gun?

Not to be argumentative but it defies logic (and physics) that two "identical" rifles, each firing 400gr bullets at the same velocity, would have such a noticeable disparity in perceived recoil. The only other variable that comes to mind that could have an affect on recoil is the powder and it's charge weight.

 

[John Telford]

Sorry, my mistake. I see from your original post that your Jeffery made M98 is 3+1 and a safe queen. It doesn't hunt so snap over to carry one in the tube is immaterial.

Attached is a page from Duane Weibe's "Feeding and Function of a Converted Mauser" (reprinted without permission). See what a snap over extractor is supposed to look like.
View attachment 556585

My .375 H&H Holland pre war has this on the extractor . None of my .404’s by Jeffery or .404 by Mauser orbendorf have it.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

My .375 H&H Holland pre war has this on the extractor . None of my .404’s by Jeffery or .404 by Mauser orbendorf have it.

I suspect neither of those later guns has the necessary recess in the ring to allow the extractor to flex out and snap over a rim in the chamber. Again, I think one would be less likely to encounter this feature with commercially made sporting actions. On the other hand, you'd think the military actions would require snap over for emergency loading an empty gun in a heated firefight. While a dangerous game rifle might need the snap over feature once in a lifetime, a military rifle at Ypres or Omaha Beach might need it on a hourly basis.

 

[PCC600]

I have a Mauser Type A in 404J . From serial number it looks to have been made around 1925. Action is a single square bridge magnum . Waffenfabrik Mauser Oberndorff on action ( so action made pre 1920) . Thumb cut out on action . 24 inch barrel with zero blueing remaining . Originally from India - has been here in OZ for many years. A lovely rifle to shoot - hell on water buffalo . I always surprised people say they have never seen 404s . There are plenty in OZ and are much appreciated .

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I have a Mauser Type A in 404J . From serial number it looks to have been made around 1925. Action is a single square bridge magnum . Waffenfabrik Mauser Oberndorff on action ( so action made pre 1920) . Thumb cut out on action . 24 inch barrel with zero blueing remaining . Originally from India - has been here in OZ for many years. A lovely rifle to shoot - hell on water buffalo . I always surprised people say they have never seen 404s . There are plenty in OZ and are much appreciated .

Mauser only started making magnum actions in 1913 so yours is definitely one of the first if it's pre-1920. Is the "thumb cutout" the gas release port on left side of receiver?

 

[PCC600]

Mauser only started making magnum actions in 1913 so yours is definitely one of the first if it's pre-1920. Is the "thumb cutout" the gas release port on left side of receiver?

By thumb cut out I mean the cut out in left side wall of action for loading magazine . I have never used a stripper clip to load this 404.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

By thumb cut out I mean the cut out in left side wall of action for loading magazine . I have never used a stripper clip to load this 404.

If yours is a magnum action I doubt it would have the stripper clip port on top of the receiver.

 

[PCC600]

If yours is a magnum action I doubt it would have the stripper clip port on top of the receiver.

No it doesn’t. Nothing has been milled out for a stripper clip unlike in the 425 WR.