404 Jeffery Build on a standard action ??

[Ontario Hunter]

The only difference between a standard and magnum Mauser '98 is the length.
Receiver ring diameter is the same.
Bolt diameter/bolt face is the same.
The locking ring (or recess as I hear it called) is reduced to accommodate longer or larger diameter cartridges.
Keep in mind that this recess is just ahead of the loading ramp so as the ramp is altered there is potential to reduce the recess and thus the area where the bolt lug contacts the action.
I've never smoked an action to see exactly where the lug engages the action but I'd wager that few have good contact over the entire surface where they fit together.
The 425WR, 11.2X72, 404 and the 500 Schuler/Jeffery were all deliberately designed to fit a standard action.
I don't know why the rebated rim was chosen other than it obviates the need to open the bolt face which I suppose could be seen as a benefit if one needed a replacement bolt or extractor out in the field, at least for the 425 and 11.2 - the 500 rim is rebated in relation to the base but not as markedly as the other two.

Properly built 500s run as smoothly as any other chambering - the rebated rim is not a design flaw.

As I understand it, the rebated rim allowed for use of stripper clips which culling game control rangers liked. I can't imagine using that much 500 Jeffery ammo that fast for culling dangerous game. Ouch! Must have been exciting times! Those rangers were tough characters! Built for rugby.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Jeffery built the 404 on standard actions because that’s what they could get. As soon as the magnum action became available they stitched to that. That happened early on. The 404 is 375 length and anyone can see the advantage of the magnum action over the standard action for cartridges of this length.

404 Jeffery OAL is 3.53". 375 H&H is 3.60" long. Longer 375 requires trimming the ejection port of locking ring for ejection of loaded cartridges as well as trimming the bottom of ring for loading ramp. I did not need to remove any of the ring to accommodate ejection (but I don't imagine I could get away with seating bullets any higher than 3.53"). Looking into the action just now with scope detached, I see that the forward end of receiver magazine port is not cut into the bottom of locking ring any deeper than the unaltered top of the locking ring (ejection port). Of course a bevel must be added to the trimmed bottom ring to restore the loading ramp. I don't see that removing so little metal to restore the ramp would significantly weaken a standard action locking ring. Obviously there was plenty of extra metal in that area of the ring for 8mm box. Making standard 98 into 375 or 416 is doable but does require removing more metal from the locking ring both top and bottom. 404 is a stronger build on standard action.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

That’s a good looking rifle you do custom work??

Only on my own stuff, the law down here doesn’t allow me to work on other peoples firearms without paying the government for a piece of plastic that says I can, in fact they don’t like me doing my own stuff so it’s all gone over by my gunsmith friend who ok's it
Gumpy

 

[Flewis]

404 Jeffery OAL is 3.53". 375 H&H is 3.60" long. Longer 375 requires trimming the ejection port of locking ring for ejection of loaded cartridges as well as trimming the bottom of ring for loading ramp. I did not need to remove any of the ring to accommodate ejection (but I don't imagine I could get away with seating bullets any higher than 3.53"). Looking into the action just now with scope detached, I see that the forward end of receiver magazine port is not cut into the bottom of locking ring any deeper than the unaltered top of the locking ring (ejection port). Of course a bevel must be added to the trimmed bottom ring to restore the loading ramp. I don't see that removing so little metal to restore the ramp would significantly weaken a standard action locking ring. Obviously there was plenty of extra metal in that area of the ring for 8mm box. Making standard 98 into 375 or 416 is doable but does require removing more metal from the locking ring both top and bottom. 404 is a stronger build on standard action.

404 Jeffery OAL is 3.53". 375 H&H is 3.60" long. Longer 375 requires trimming the ejection port of locking ring for ejection of loaded cartridges as well as trimming the bottom of ring for loading ramp. I did not need to remove any of the ring to accommodate ejection (but I don't imagine I could get away with seating bullets any higher than 3.53"). Looking into the action just now with scope detached, I see that the forward end of receiver magazine port is not cut into the bottom of locking ring any deeper than the unaltered top of the locking ring (ejection port). Of course a bevel must be added to the trimmed bottom ring to restore the loading ramp. I don't see that removing so little metal to restore the ramp would significantly weaken a standard action locking ring. Obviously there was plenty of extra metal in that area of the ring for 8mm box. Making standard 98 into 375 or 416 is doable but does require removing more metal from the locking ring both top and bottom. 404 is a stronger build on standard action.

You are correct about overall length but the cases are both 2.850 if I remember correctly.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You are correct about overall length but the cases are both 2.850 if I remember correctly.

404 case is actually slightly longer: 2.875". But it's the OAL that determines box length and how much metal has to be carved from the rings. I have actually never checked the clearance for ejecting loaded shells from my 404. It ejects them fine but I wonder just how close the bullet tip is to locking ring. Hmmm. I will go have a look.

I could only eyeball it as no way to squeeze my caliper in there but appears to be about 0.07" clearance between bullet tip and locking ring at the point when ejector engages. Cartridge was exactly 3.53" OAL. It's tight but I've cycled hundreds of dummy rounds through the gun since finishing the project and none have failed to eject. Jeffery designed the 404 cartridge to fit perfectly in a standard action 98 Mauser. Loaded shells don't seem to kick out with much vigor but empty cases fly off to the next zip code. But they are heavy cartridges. Kinda handy having the shells almost drop at my feet when unloading the rifle.

 

[Flewis]

404 case is actually slightly longer: 2.875". But it's the OAL that determines box length and how much metal has to be carved from the rings. I have actually never checked the clearance for ejecting loaded shells from my 404. It ejects them fine but I wonder just how close the bullet tip is to locking ring. Hmmm. I will go have a look.

I could only eyeball it as no way to squeeze my caliper in there but appears to be about 0.07" clearance between bullet tip and locking ring at the point when ejector engages. Cartridge was exactly 3.53" OAL. It's tight but I've cycled hundreds of dummy rounds through the gun since finishing the project and none have failed to eject. Jeffery designed the 404 cartridge to fit perfectly in a standard action 98 Mauser. Loaded shells don't seem to kick out with much vigor but empty cases fly off to the next zip code. But they are heavy cartridges. Kinda handy having the shells almost drop at my feet when unloading the rifle.

That would make loading the super heavy weights harder. I guess you don’t need to.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

That would make loading the super heavy weights harder. I guess you don’t need to.

I think a few companies make 450 gr 404 bullets but I'm not sure I would even use them to hunt elephants ... if I ever hunted elephants ... and I don't see that happening. 400 gr mono is as heavy as I will need and that's what I gauged at 0.07" clearance.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I built my 404J on a magnum Mauser action, but I think a Winchester Model 70 with the 'long' action for the 375 H&H would work just fine... my 375 rounds (which I use in my 375 "Safari Classic') are just a tiny bit longer than my 404J hunting rounds.