400 Whelen Finished

[AZDAVE]

English walnut and yes I will be checkering it.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

English walnut and yes I will be checkering it.

@AZDAVE
Keep us posted mate. As mork said to Mindy, I wait with worm on younger ( baited breath) for the next installment.
Did you AI the cases to give a more defined shoulder or use some other method. Whelen and Howe definitely had some ideas ahead of their time. If only they had modern powders back then they may have become factory cartridges. All that power in such a small cartridge (compared to others) is great .
Bob
BTW a beautiful rifle

 

[crs]

Dave,
Here is a link to the Pressure Trace II product that my friend and I use. As I remember it costs about the same as a new tire for that big pickup of yours.

Rifle Barrel Chamber Pressure Testing Hardware & Software | Pressure Trace

Measure ACTUAL rifle chamber pressure for each shot, barrel harmonics, rise time, time to muzzle exit and OBT barrel timing.

www.shootingsoftware.com

 

[AZDAVE]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen On the 400 there really ins't enough case shoulder to really do a AI type of shoulder. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs with several different powders. Right now I have a few rounds loaded to start loads with WIN 748 to check the sights and make sure I have the correct height on the front blade.

@crs Thank you for the link, I will have to read more on this system. It looks very interesting and alot cheaper than a true pressure gun.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen On the 400 there really ins't enough case shoulder to really do a AI type of shoulder. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs with several different powders. Right now I have a few rounds loaded to start loads with WIN 748 to check the sights and make sure I have the correct height on the front blade.

@crs Thank you for the link, I will have to read more on this system. It looks very interesting and alot cheaper than a true pressure gun.

@AZDAVE.
I read somewhere while doing my research on the 35, 35AI and 400 Whelens that if you use the AI reamer for the 400 then load I t with .410 cal pistol bullet backwards an d have the load e x round held against the rifling you get a more defined shoulder. The writer then primed 10 cases and chambered each empty case and discharged the primer each time without issue.
Thus they determined they had an adequate shoulder to safely head space from.
Have you considered Hogdon CFE223 for loading. I know the burning rate doesn't seem right but it works very well in the 35 and others seem to be getting high velocity at safe pressures out of the 400 with it.
Just my ramblings from an old wildcatter and hand loader.
I chose the 35 Whelen over the 375 and 400 as I didn't need that much oomph for what I hunt in OZ and hunted in Namibia. I found my loads in the 35 developed 4,000 to 4,300 fpe of muzzle energy more than ample for my needs.
Bob

 

[AZDAVE]

It isn't the fireforming part, it is just physical space in the case dimensions that govern the shoulder. The cases I have are 400 whelen basic and will fire form with no problem. If you are expanding the case neck from 30/06 or 35 whelen you need to hone the case to where it has straight walls at .458 the neck it to the .410for the shoulder.

The 35 whelen is a good round.

 

[Velo Dog]

Beautiful wood and I love the straight bolt handle.

+1

 

[AZDAVE]

Made it to the range on Sunday and took about 20 rounds of starting load level with 400 gr hornaday dgx to get the correct front sight height. It shoots very well and my entry level load was clocking along at 1980fps.. I will load up a ladder of loads to see where it starts showing pressure signs and see which loads gives the best accuracy. I also plan on my hunting loads to be 350 and 400 gr Aframes and CEB solids. but we will see what the rifle perfers. So far I am pleased.

 

[njc110381]

Nice looking rifle. It'll be interesting to hear how you get on with it when you start developing loads.

 

[AZDAVE]

Was able to make it out to the range with some test ammo. The rifle feeds flawlessly and handles well.

I had some WIN 748 on the shelf and I worked a ladder up and shot 20 shots with 60 gr being the max and worked up to that in .5gr increments. The best load accuracy wise was the 60 gr load and with a magnetospeed chrono the speed was an average of 2015 FPS with 400gr DGX bullets. I ran out of them, was hoping to get at least 2050. With Quickloads data that is the max load I will try with that powder and it has the pressures right at 62K. There was no pressure signs and the bolt lift was normal.

Plan on trying a couple more different powders and see how Aframes 400 and 350 gr shoot and 350gr CEB along with 400gr DGS bullets.

So far I am happy with the results trying to locate some woodleigh bullets to test also.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Was able to make it out to the range with some test ammo. The rifle feeds flawlessly and handles well.

I had some WIN 748 on the shelf and I worked a ladder up and shot 20 shots with 60 gr being the max and worked up to that in .5gr increments. The best load accuracy wise was the 60 gr load and with a magnetospeed chrono the speed was an average of 2015 FPS with 400gr DGX bullets. I ran out of them, was hoping to get at least 2050. With Quickloads data that is the max load I will try with that powder and it has the pressures right at 62K. There was no pressure signs and the bolt lift was normal.

Plan on trying a couple more different powders and see how Aframes 400 and 350 gr shoot and 350gr CEB along with 400gr DGS bullets.

So far I am happy with the results trying to locate some woodleigh bullets to test also.

@AZDAVE
Glad it's working out well, I'm sure you are going to have fun with it.
Bob

 

[-- Jr --]

Congratulations on your new rifle! Nice caliber. Enjoy!

 

[TOBY458]

Do you think the A Frames will build up more pressure than the DGX, or less?

 

[35bore]

Nice looking wood! Thanks for sharing

HAAAAA!!!!!!!!

 

[AZDAVE]

@TOBY458 based on quickloads and my results with Aframes in my doubles. I think that the Aframes will have a lower pressure at the same speeds than the Hornaday's. They have less bearing surface than the round flat nose on the hornadays.

 

[TOBY458]

@TOBY458 based on quickloads and my results with Aframes in my doubles. I think that the Aframes will have a lower pressure at the same speeds than the Hornaday's. They have less bearing surface than the round flat nose on the hornadays.

It would be great if you could get 2150 from a Swift. I would be mighty interested in building one on a Model 70 if that were obtainable.

 

[AZDAVE]

@TOBY458 I will let you know the results from my range sessions.

 

[AZDAVE]

Good morning, I have been reviewing my notes from yesterdays range session temp 52 degrees and no wind. I loaded up three different bullets (400gr DGS, 400ge Swift Aframe and 400gr Woodleigh) with two different powders and 3 powders with the woodleigh. All loads are safe in my rifle with no pressure signs.

The powders were H4895 and AA2230. If anyone is interested in the actual loads please PM me.

400 DGS 400 Aframe 400 Woodleigh
H4895 2137fps H4895 2122fps H4895 2168fps
AA2230 2143fps AA2230 2122fps AA2230 2201fps
AA2495 2106 fps

On the DGS and Aframe I plan on trying 1 grain more powder. Both loads shot very accurate and no pressure signs.

The woodleighs the H4895 and AA230 are the max loads I will shoot as you are just starting to get a little primer flatning. I did try on load that was a bit hotter that I started getting a bit of harder bolt lift. The AA2495 I will go up a couple grains as the fired case looks like a factory springfield load in my 06 just with a bigger hole in the end.

I will discount using the ww748 as it didn't reach 2125fps (My goal to match my 450/400 loads) Will work with the 2230 and 2495 as I have more of these powders than the H4895 (this is my go to powder in the 500 Jeffery)

Was very happy with yesterdays range session.

 

[TOBY458]

Good morning, I have been reviewing my notes from yesterdays range session temp 52 degrees and no wind. I loaded up three different bullets (400gr DGS, 400ge Swift Aframe and 400gr Woodleigh) with two different powders and 3 powders with the woodleigh. All loads are safe in my rifle with no pressure signs.

The powders were H4895 and AA2230. If anyone is interested in the actual loads please PM me.

400 DGS 400 Aframe 400 Woodleigh
H4895 2137fps H4895 2122fps H4895 2168fps
AA2230 2143fps AA2230 2122fps AA2230 2201fps
AA2495 2106 fps

On the DGS and Aframe I plan on trying 1 grain more powder. Both loads shot very accurate and no pressure signs.

The woodleighs the H4895 and AA230 are the max loads I will shoot as you are just starting to get a little primer flatning. I did try on load that was a bit hotter that I started getting a bit of harder bolt lift. The AA2495 I will go up a couple grains as the fired case looks like a factory springfield load in my 06 just with a bigger hole in the end.

I will discount using the ww748 as it didn't reach 2125fps (My goal to match my 450/400 loads) Will work with the 2230 and 2495 as I have more of these powders than the H4895 (this is my go to powder in the 500 Jeffery)

Was very happy with yesterdays range session.

Looking good!

 

[AZDAVE]

Made it back out to the range yesterday and checked the new loads

400gr Aframes with AA2230 2175fps
400gr woodleigh with AA2495 2170fps

So I now have softs worked out and the solids are hitting within 3/4 in of the softs so I now have some working loads to work with.