375H&H with 1-10" twist?

[machinistbutler]

There is a beauty of an AHR 375 for sale , cz action 23 inch barrel. Everything looks great on it but it says 1-10 twist. My other 375's have 1-12", and shoot 260-300 grain bullets so well.

I am just a.bit concerned that the quicker twist may not work as well with the shorter 260 accubond, or the A-frames. Maybe the idea is for the 350 grain bullets with that twist?

Any input would be appreciated. It is truly a beauty of a rifle that I would love to have, but she has got to shoot..

I did send AHR an email with the same question , buy it's the weekend so not sure if they will see it till Monday.


Thanks guys

Craig

 

[colorado]

Should be fine, but ask Wayne. My 270 shoots everything from Sierra 90g HPBTs to 160 Partitions very accurately with a 1 in 10" twist

 

[bruce moulds]

it will shoot light bullets well.
should it not do so the problem will not be the twist.
a bigger issue might be that softer cup & core bullets will open up faster than with a slower twist., particularly lighter ones.
this can also be an advantage sometimes.
if all else fails here, barnes and swift will be your friends.
in fact with the 300 gn barnes the faster twist will improve stability to a lead cored 300 gn in a standard twist.
bruce.

 

[One Day...]

Hello Craig;

1 turn in 12" is the typical .375 H&H twist but the faster twist will likely work well with (very) long heavy monometal bullets. For example, the Barnes 350 gr TSX. With this bullet, the .375 H&H steps squarely into .416 territory...

This being said, going from 1-12" to 1-10" is not dramatic. An example of a really significant change was the US Army going from 1-14" on the original M16 to 1-7" on the M4.

I would not be worried about 1-10" in a .375 H&H, unless you want to use very short bullets such as the Barnes 235 gr.

 

[bruce moulds]

50 gn bullets in my 8" twist 223 at 3500 fps just drill it on the target.
some 50 gn bullets will not hold together at the spin rate, failing to reach the target.
nosler ballistic tips do hold together well, but blow up massively on arrival.
100 gn 6.5s also group well in 8" twist barrels, when 12" would be in theory all that is required.
the 235 gn barnes should shoot well in a 10 twist 375, shoot flat, and still give excellent terminal performance.
again, if it won't, the twist will not be the problem.
bruce.

 

[sestoppelman]

That's a fast twist for a .375, but more twist is preferred to less twist for the full range of weights.

 

[machinistbutler]

Dang I was kind of hoping you guys would say how awful it would be. I don't need another 375, but then again I don't own any rifles as nice as that AHR one, I may just have to try and get it .

Thanks so much for your help!

Craig.

 

[machinistbutler]

Couldn't stand it, the stock looked too beautiful, and it comes with an AHR fiberglass stock and VX6 1-6 with rings . Ordered it from camp tonight, should have it Tuesday.

I have heard so many good things about AHR rifles on here. Now I can see first hand . 50 rounds fired at the range, never been taken hunting, which is really too bad. I shall try and change that!!

 

[BeeMaa]

Congratulations on the rifle.
Post a few more pictures when it comes in.

 

[BeeMaa]

Hello Craig;

1 turn in 12" is the typical .375 H&H twist but the faster twist will likely work well with (very) long heavy monometal bullets. For example, the Barnes 350 gr TSX. With this bullet, the .375 H&H steps squarely into .416 territory...

View attachment 376512

This being said, going from 1-12" to 1-10" is not dramatic. An example of a really significant change was the US Army going from 1-14" on the original M16 to 1-7" on the M4.

I would not be worried about 1-10" in a .375 H&H, unless you want to use very short bullets such as the Barnes 235 gr.

View attachment 376513

I have a minor beef with your math.
Specifically your claim for the 375 to be in 416 territory.
To be honest, it's not.

For a 350 grain .375 to compare to a 400 grain .416
The .375 needs above 5000 lb-ft of energy, which is what the .416 has.
To attain that, it needs to be moving at around 2600 fps.
Barnes load data only recommends up to about 2300 fps for this bullet.
While a .416 with a 400 grain bullet does this at 2400 fps with ease.
Leaving the .375 with a 1000 lb-ft deficit to the .416.

Going from a 375 at 4000 lb-ft to a .416 at 5000 lb-ft...
20% increase isn't even close to apples to apples.
Can you load the .375 up to .416 ballistics, yes.
But you can also soup up the .416 way beyond the .375.

Debate all you want about "punching above its weight".
It's physics and you know it...it simply can not punch above its weight.
It can do what it can do...no more, no less.
There is no free lunch and there is no replacement for displacement.

 

[WAB]

Couldn't stand it, the stock looked too beautiful, and it comes with an AHR fiberglass stock and VX6 1-6 with rings . Ordered it from camp tonight, should have it Tuesday.

I have heard so many good things about AHR rifles on here. Now I can see first hand . 50 rounds fired at the range, never been taken hunting, which is really too bad. I shall try and change that!! View attachment 376528

That is a fine rifle sir!

 

[machinistbutler]

Thanks ! I have never really had what is considered a custom rifle, at least not one like this.

It's this darn forum , I read so much about great rifles and the pictures you all post really leaves a mark!

I love the 375 H&H , I have hunted with one for over 16 years now. This will be my 4th one in my safe. A couple CZ, one unfired, and a Belgian Browning safari .

If this rifle can shoot anywhere near as well as my 550 that I have used for years I will be very pleased. It is a little prettier than my 550, although my 550 is a darn fine rifle that looks good as well.

 

[One Day...]

I have a minor beef with your math.
Specifically your claim for the 375 to be in 416 territory.
To be honest, it's not.

For a 350 grain .375 to compare to a 400 grain .416
The .375 needs above 5000 lb-ft of energy, which is what the .416 has.
To attain that, it needs to be moving at around 2600 fps.
Barnes load data only recommends up to about 2300 fps for this bullet.
While a .416 with a 400 grain bullet does this at 2400 fps with ease.
Leaving the .375 with a 1000 lb-ft deficit to the .416.

Going from a 375 at 4000 lb-ft to a .416 at 5000 lb-ft...
20% increase isn't even close to apples to apples.
Can you load the .375 up to .416 ballistics, yes.
But you can also soup up the .416 way beyond the .375.

Debate all you want about "punching above its weight".
It's physics and you know it...it simply can not punch above its weight.
It can do what it can do...no more, no less.
There is no free lunch and there is no replacement for displacement.

I did not say it was the equal to .416 BeeMaa, I said it "steps squarely into .416 territory".

Sure, mathematically the .375 H&H 350 gr does not produce the same energy as the .416 400 gr, and I could answer that energy is not all there is to killing power, but I am not trying to make the case that .375 350 gr = .416 400 gr. It would be silly. As the owner of both .416 Rigby and .375 H&H I am the first one to often say on this forum that the .416 deals a visibly harder blow. What with increased frontal area, increased weight, and yes, increased energy...

What I meant to say is that there is nothing a .416 400 gr can do that a .375 350 gr cannot do, and THAT is what I meant when I said that with the Barnes 350 gr TSX, the .375 H&H steps squarely into .416 territory... and I stand by it

I will even add that the .375 350 gr likely outperforms significantly the .416 400 gr in term of penetration due to the fact that it has a significantly higher sectional density (.356 vs. .33)

The margin will be even thinner between the two if Craig goes up to the Rhino .375 380 gr solid.

PS: by the way, I am apparently in good company, considering that Kevin "Doctari" Robertson, a man with vastly more experience than most of us, also considers that the .375 with 350 gr bullets gives the .416 a run for its money

 

[BeeMaa]

I did not say it was the equal to .416 BeeMaa, I said it "steps squarely into .416 territory".

Sure, mathematically the .375 H&H 350 gr does not produce the same energy as the .416 400 gr, and I could answer that energy is not all there is to killing power, but I am not trying to make the case that .375 350 gr = .416 400 gr. It would be silly. As the owner of both .416 Rigby and .375 H&H I am the first one to often say on this forum that the .416 deals a visibly harder blow. What with increased frontal area, increased weight, and yes, increased energy...

What I meant to say is that there is nothing a .416 400 gr can do that a .375 350 gr cannot do, and THAT is what I meant when I said that with the Barnes 350 gr TSX, the .375 H&H steps squarely into .416 territory... and I stand by it

I will even add that the .375 350 gr likely outperforms significantly the .416 400 gr in term of penetration due to the fact that it has a significantly higher sectional density (.356 vs. .33)

The margin will be even thinner between the two if Craig goes up to the Rhino .375 380 gr solid.

PS: by the way, I am apparently in good company, considering that Kevin "Doctari" Robertson, a man with vastly more experience than most of us, also considers that the .375 with 350 gr bullets gives the .416 a run for its money

You said it yourself..."the .416 delivers a visibly harder blow."
The .375 is not and will never be "in the territory" of the .416.
You are talking about living in the margins, at the edge of limits.
Take the .416 to the same limits...would say it's "in the territory" of .458?
No, not even close.

If this was the case the .338 would be universally accepted for DG.
Load 285 TSX .338 bullets to 2800 fps and it's over 5000 lb-ft.
After all it has a sectional density of .356.
But again, at the very edge of limits.

I respect both you and Doctari.
But you simply can not have your cake and eat it too.
The .375 will occupy its own territory.
As will the .416, .458 and .338.

 

[machinistbutler]

I have a 416 Rigby and a 458 Lott. I think if I am fortunate enough to do a buffalo hunt I will take the Lott. It is working very well, and I am pleased with the accuracy with the 500 grain Aframes.

The 375 works so well for everything I have used it on, and is so easy to shoot well.

I haven't used the 416 enough yet, it shoots great, kicks quite similar to the Lott. I can only fit 3 down in it, whereas the Lott I can fit 5 , same as my CZ 375 .

I think having choices like this makes one feel very fortunate today. I am thankful I have never seen one of these R8 that everyone is talking about.

Craig

 

[WAB]

I did not say it was the equal to .416 BeeMaa, I said it "steps squarely into .416 territory".

Sure, mathematically the .375 H&H 350 gr does not produce the same energy as the .416 400 gr, and I could answer that energy is not all there is to killing power, but I am not trying to make the case that .375 350 gr = .416 400 gr. It would be silly. As the owner of both .416 Rigby and .375 H&H I am the first one to often say on this forum that the .416 deals a visibly harder blow. What with increased frontal area, increased weight, and yes, increased energy...

What I meant to say is that there is nothing a .416 400 gr can do that a .375 350 gr cannot do, and THAT is what I meant when I said that with the Barnes 350 gr TSX, the .375 H&H steps squarely into .416 territory... and I stand by it

I will even add that the .375 350 gr likely outperforms significantly the .416 400 gr in term of penetration due to the fact that it has a significantly higher sectional density (.356 vs. .33)

The margin will be even thinner between the two if Craig goes up to the Rhino .375 380 gr solid.

PS: by the way, I am apparently in good company, considering that Kevin "Doctari" Robertson, a man with vastly more experience than most of us, also considers that the .375 with 350 gr bullets gives the .416 a run for its money

You are right, Kevin writes glowingly of the performance of the .375 with 350 grain bullets. He indicates terminal performance comparable to the .416’s, as opposed to ballistic equivalency.

 

[WAB]

I have only shot one Cape buffalo with 350 gr bullets and none with a .416, so I can’t comment from experience. I can tell you that my .458 Lott hits a buffalo much harder than any load from a .375. That’s not to say the .375 doesn’t get the job done, it does. But the Lott hammers them.

 

[One Day...]

Agreed BeeMaa, WAB and Craig (machinistbutler)

There is no arguing that the .416, .458 - let me add my own Buff hammer - the .470, hit them a lot harder, period

But the day I shoot a buff with the .375, I will feel good with the 300 gr and even better with a 350 gr, which I think we can also all agree on

 

[BeeMaa]

Agreed BeeMaa, WAB and Craig (machinistbutler)

There is no arguing that the .416, .458 - let me add my own Buff hammer - the .470, hit them a lot harder, period

But the day I shoot a buff with the .375, I will feel good with the 300 gr and even better with a 350 gr, which I think we can also all agree on

Agreed.

 

[machinistbutler]

Rifle may arrive in the mail on Wednesday. I will try to ensure I am home to sign for it! Wayne from AHR said the customer may have requested the faster twist to run the 350 grain heavier bullets, but he said it would still shoot the lighter ones just fine!