.375 should be banned from buffalo hunts!

[Bandera]

Maybe the OP wants the 375 caliber banned for Buffalo so there would be more Buffalo? How so? Well given that most of the 404’s, 416’s and others are out of most peoples price range. That leaves building = less buffalo hunted.

That leaves building a custom rifle. Which have a long wait time which could = less buffalo hunted.

Some people do not want to mess with a custom rifle build which = less Buffalo hunted.

Then there are the left handed people. A left handed affordable rifle in a 40 plus caliber is almost non existent = less Buffalo hunted.

 

[Brian]

With the right bullet, that's pretty much it. I had a PH tell me back in 2017 my second trip of Africa.

"To be honest many American clients that come here can't shoot off sticks worth a sh*t."

I have been told the same thing. One comment was,"50% can not hit the shoulder". Amazing!
That observation, of course, includes posts on hunting blogs.

 

[Brian]

I'm going to say something controversial. Killing cape buffalo is way overrated. I've shot 2 fair chase free range with a 375 Swift A Frame 300 grain bullets and they both died easily. I really don't see what all the hype is about with a cape buffalo. I'm much more fascinated with lion, leopard croc. I also shot 2 hippos in the head with my 375, lights out 1 shot. I know every situation is different but the Swift AFrames and the TSX bullets work in a 375.

Obi Wan,
That is so true! Unless things go wrong, killing a cape buffalo is uneventful. Also the heart and lungs area is actually as big as a basket ball, that is not much of a challenge for a marksman at 50 yds!

Using a 577NE, I get some dead right there and lights out kills.
If there are any jokes that follow those buffalo kill, they are along the lines of, "Mr Brian Sir, you are a very boring client", "I hope that 577 didn't wake our tracker", "That was so easy I should get a discount", etc. Har, har har.
This year I dropped one, bang flop, in the deep, thick grass, it instantly disappeared from my sight as my 577 roared in recoil. I thought I was pretty witty when I quickly asked, " Alright, you guys, where did you put my buffalo?".

If it wasn't for my over active imagination I might not buffalo hunting anymore and just go back to my knitting.

I'll bet that lions would be fascinating like you say, they are just not within my budget. ( I usually hunt discount cows which are said to be more tricky/nasty than bulls.)

 

[Brian]

I have been told the same thing. One comment was,"50% can not hit the shoulder". Amazing!
That observation, of course, includes posts on hunting blogs.

Oops, Another typo above , I meant to say, "That observation. of course, includes folks who post on hunting blogs."

 

[steve white]

In regards to the original poster, I just want to say that white hunter Cristiano Furtado (the identity of @Crishuntbrasil) is actually a well skilled white hunter with a significant amount of dangerous game hunting experience. Being a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum man through & through, I naturally don’t agree with his assessment that this caliber should be banned for Cape buffalo hunting (after all, I’ve personally taken 17 Cape buffalo with this caliber so far). But he definitely is the real deal and knows his stuff. He’s earned the right to feel as he does, even if his desire to impose his preferences onto other hunters understandably rubs off on the wrong way to many.

An interesting historical anecdote for all. When I went on my life’s first safari to Kenya in 1974, I learnt from Mr. Cheffings (my white hunter) that the laws set by EAPHA (East African Professional Hunter’s Association) stipulated .400 bore to be the minimum legally permissible caliber for hunting “Thick Skinned Dangerous Game” (namely elephant, Cape buffalo, hippopotamus or rhinoceros). While .375 bore was the minimum legally permissible caliber for hunting “Thin Skinned Dangerous Game” (namely lion or leopard) & eland. These laws were set in 1958 under the direction of white hunter Tony Dyer (who was the President of EAPHA) at the time.

In reality however, this law was never actually enforced very strictly back in those days.
View attachment 711396Mr. Cheffings himself let me shoot this fine specimen (my life’s first Cape buffalo) with his .375 Holland & Holland Magnum BRNO ZKK602. He also had a .458 Winchester Magnum BSA Majestic (the one with the beastly muzzle brake) but told me that he let most of his clients (who didn’t bring a heavy rifle to Safari) use the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum on (amongst other dangerous game) Cape buffalo since “They shot it more straight than the .458. And no matter how big a howitzer you’re using, it’s going to be useless if you can’t shoot straight with it”.

I will say one thing, however. If you’re exclusively hunting Cape buffalo with solid non expanding bullets (and there’s really no sane reason to in 2025), then I will concede that a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum is rather marginal for Cape buffalo hunting. Bullet diameter is too small for enhancing quick hemorrhaging of the animal during a heart-lung shot. A Cape buffalo can survive up to 18 minutes with a round nosed steel jacketed Hornady FMJ solid having bored clean through his heart. I’ve seen it happen myself. On a double lung shot, things are noticeably even worse. A flat nosed solid improves things, but not by much. If employing solid non expanding bullets against Cape buffalo, then I personally wouldn’t go for any caliber lighter than .458 bore… preferably around .500.

But modern premium grade controlled expansion bullets (such as the Swift A Frame, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, North Fork Semi Spitzer, Wim Degol Stark Mantel or Rhino Solid Shank) have made the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum a very serious contender for Cape buffalo hunting.

Now that's a very interesting fact--that 375 was only actually legal for thin skinned dangerous game! Never heard that mentioned before.
All this concerning the oldest laws, current laws in effect to the support of 375 on buff, etc.

 

[MS 9x56]

With the right bullet, that's pretty much it. I had a PH tell me back in 2017 my second trip of Africa.

"To be honest many American clients that come here can't shoot off sticks worth a sh*t."

Now that I believe.

 

[rdog]

I'm sure you will get a few replies to this post!

I was hunting alongside my son on a recent water buffalo cull hunt in Australia we were sharing a double rifle in .500/416NE (Rimmed .416 Rigby) and a .375 H&H Mag bolt rifle. We were shooting 400 gr bullets in the .416 & 300 gr bullets in the .375. We shot a total of 32 buffalo in 6 days hunting.

There was a significant difference in the effectiveness of the 400 gr .416 compared to the 300 gr .375. I'm not saying that a .375 is not capable because that would be a stupid comment but I am saying that a .416 is a much more effective choice.

My experience on this trip convinced me that I needed a .416 bolt action rifle for future buffalo hunting trips. I just got out to shoot my new Blaser R8 in .416 Rem last week, I could not be happier with it's initial use, it's super accurate and achieved great grouping with 400 gr ammo. It will be my new standard go to rifle for future buffalo hunts.

The Australian / Asian water BUFFALO is not as tough OR AGGRESSIVE as the African Buffalo & can not be compared to
them. Thousands have been killed with FMJ 303 & 308 surplus ammo. A 30/06 220 grain or 9.3x62 286 grain will do the job. I shot a lot in the 1980s with 220 grain REM CORE-LOCK using a push feed WIN70 in 30/06, with a Weaver 2.5 x scope then in later years an FN M98 in 9.3x62. with HORNADY 250 grain GMX bullets.

 

[Flbt]

The Australian / Asian water BUFFALO is not as tough OR AGGRESSIVE as the African Buffalo & can not be compared to
them. Thousands have been killed with FMJ 303 & 308 surplus ammo. A 30/06 220 grain or 9.3x62 286 grain will do the job. I shot a lot in the 1980s with 220 grain REM CORE-LOCK using a push feed WIN70 in 30/06, with a Weaver 2.5 x scope then in later years an FN M98 in 9.3x62. with HORNADY 250 grain GMX bullets.

Well the guy that started this was talking about South America buff right?
They are water buff not cape buff down there right?
Like the ranches in fl they offer water buff hunting not cape if I am not mistaken.

I do keep hearing roumers there a small breeding heard of water buffs that have gotten out and are on the deep swamp of middle fl.
If there is that will get intresting after awhile.

 

[CoElkHunter]

There appears to be some grass of some sort on the one in the bottom center. Strange indeed.

Could be some Maui Wowee? Powder, primers or brass. No one shoots for free. LOL

 

[CoElkHunter]

Interesting as I just saw this on FB and I think Mr PH Cristiano Furtado is just stirring and we fell for it.

See below what I found on Facebook.
What Calibre is written on the box by whom was this posted, or are my eyes seeing failling me????

View attachment 711521

Could be a collection of Remington Core Lokts? “The deadliest mushroom in the woods”. LOL

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

With proper shot placement the .375 H&H is a terrific cartridge for CB hunting.

@Jonathan Kashouty
For hunting @CBH Australia you would want a min of 40cal. I hear he can be a mean SOB if'n he gets ruled up. Mate he's that tough fear fears him
Oh sorry I thought you meant hunting Chris
My mistake CB means Cape Buffalo in Africa not CBH in Australia.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It's not enough for buffaloes! That's what I meant! Note that I didn't say it doesn't kill, I said it's insufficient most of the time! This gives buffaloes the opportunity to kill hunters, guides, and trackers! Yes, I know it's the most used, not for its efficiency, but for its comfortable recoil... that's why I gave this warning!

@Crishuntbrasil
I would gladly take on any buffalo that walked with a stoutly loaded Whelen with 310gn Woodleigh or 280gn a frames. And not have a problem doing it.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Could be a collection of Remington Core Lokts? “The deadliest mushroom in the woods”. LOL

@CoElkHunter
Buffalo don't eat mushrooms mate.
Wonder if the 7mm Banzai Express loaded with 200grainers would work.
Ha Ha Ha Ha
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

What I am saying is that the buffaloes that injured or killed someone after being shot with a 375 would not have been as many if they had been shot with a 416. In other words, fewer people would have been harmed.

@Crishuntbrasil
I think that maybe a broad sweeping statement.
I think more people can shoot a 375 better than they can a 40+ cal.
Once you mention 40+cal a lot of people say no that's to big for me I can't shoot something that big.
I would prefer someone to put a 375 where it's going to work than a 40+ that's just going to piss a buff off.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

and the attacks continue... lol, that was expected! 375 was probably the caliber that killed the most buffaloes, as the difficulty in finding 416 bullets in Brazil has always been enormous. However, it will never be more effective than the 416, do you want to see this get much worse for the 375? Put a lion in the game!

@Crishuntbrasil
By all means throw the lion in as well.
Countless lion have been killed with a 30-06 and good old 229gn rnsps to go with it.
Next you will be wanting to include warthog as they have killed people as well. Just ask a friend who was attacked by a supposed pet one in camp over a morning coffee. He spent a long time in hospital recovering.
By nature our sport is dangerous we accept that every time we hunt be it deer, pigs of or DG. All have killed people. Does that mean we should all use bigger calibers.
Asking for a friend.
Bib

 

[grand veneur]

The Australian / Asian water BUFFALO is not as tough OR AGGRESSIVE as the African Buffalo & can not be compared to
them. Thousands have been killed with FMJ 303 & 308 surplus ammo. A 30/06 220 grain or 9.3x62 286 grain will do the job. I shot a lot in the 1980s with 220 grain REM CORE-LOCK using a push feed WIN70 in 30/06, with a Weaver 2.5 x scope then in later years an FN M98 in 9.3x62. with HORNADY 250 grain GMX bullets.

I had the same feeling because of various reports on other Forums from Australian hunters about buffalo kills with cartridges that I would consider marginal for shooting heavy wild boars.

I shot few water buffalo in Malaysia with the cartridge 9,3x74R and FMJ bullets, which was not particularly difficult. They were above all problem animals that caused insecurity in the oil palm plantations bordering the jungle, but only one was particularly aggressive. They were big wild buffalo, but in all likelihood also following the Australian model, meaning buffalo that had become feral a long time ago. In Southeast and South Asia, the transition from tame to wild water buffalo has been fluid for thousands of years. This perhaps can explain some of their behavior and their lack of toughness compared to their wild African cousins. In South America it will be comparable.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I'm going to say something controversial. Killing cape buffalo is way overrated. I've shot 2...

I'll stop your quote right there....

They easy to kill, until they don't want to die.

 

[Creigh]

Interesting as I just saw this on FB and I think Mr PH Cristiano Furtado is just stirring and we fell for it.

See below what I found on Facebook.
What Calibre is written on the box by whom was this posted, or are my eyes seeing failling me????

View attachment 711521

Same guy,

Trying to jam a crowbar into gaps for clicks.

 

[DieJager]

Same guy,

View attachment 711742

Trying to jam a crowbar into gaps for clicks.

That thread is also on this website and was really a constructive debate by Cris. See for yourself and try to construct your own opinion. When the good stuff doesn't work

 

[CBH Australia]

@Crishuntbrasil
I would gladly take on any buffalo that walked with a stoutly loaded Whelen with 310gn Woodleigh or 280gn a frames. And not have a problem doing it.
Bob

Is that with a .338wm?