.375 Ruger African and Hornady bullets

[James Ledgerwood]

I doubt you could load the 375 Ruger hot enough to affect the DGX. I'd bet the bullet was other than, or somehow faulty.

You could be right I was thinking if he used a fast burning powder instead of a magnum power

 

[CTDolan]

In other words, a proof load (of sorts). I wouldn't put it past some. This is the main reason I got out of gun-making (liability, due to the ineptitude of others).

 

[CTDolan]

Imagine the guy dropping WW296, instead of some other, MUCH slower Winchester powder! If the charge was the same, by volume, even a strong bolt gun like the Ruger would be appreciably strained, likely to the point of total failure.

 

[CAustin]

Ok folks from last years hunt Hornady factory loads 400 grain 416 Ruger. Top photo is DGS (solid) recovered from my Cape buffalo .....shot was through the chest and bullet was recovered down in the muscle tissue about a foot past the animals sternum and inside about two inches. Bottom photo is a DGX (expanding) that went through the chest of a lioness and exited through the thigh found on the ground beside her leg in the sand.
I think they did the job they were supposed to do. The expanding looks like it retained most of its weight as did the solid.

 

[CTDolan]

I don't see the image of the solid.

 

[Philip Glass]

Sounds like another wanna be making up some strange recipe. No one should even contemplate passing judgement on a caliber based on some story like this. I do not reload. I go grab a gun and some shells and go hunting. Sorry for sounding tacky but this stuff just irritates me.
Regards,
Philip

 

[CAustin]

I don't reload either Philip....not at all sure I Have the smarts to get it done anywhere near right. What I do know is that I have had very good luck with Hornady factory ammo In 416 Ruger, 300 Win Mag, 45-70 Gov and 308.

 

[Velo Dog]

Two bullets is hardly an exhaustive scientific test, not even close.

However, in my photos I have displayed two recovered Hornady DGX (softs in other words) bullets, one from a zebra and the other from the buffalo here in my avatar.

They were 480 grainers, fired from my .450 No2NE and the range on both animals was about 40 or so paces.

There is also an unfired one there for comparison.

From my admittedly "only two animals experience" with this bullet, combined with what others have posted here and elsewhere, I tend to agree with those who believe excess velocity most likely is to blame for this brand and similar old fashioned "cup & core" bullets shattering on heavy bone and thereby failing to penetrate.

The DGX (soft) and DGS (solid) have steel jackets and lead cores, very similar to the bullets that made the .416 Rigby and .450 NE Flanged justly famous.

Seems remarkable to me that such a design would work quite well for over 100 years and then suddenly, be so feeble, unless of course it is being driven too fast, by today's "hotrod hand loaders".

A similar story:
One of my friends here in Alaska fired a Nosler 260 gr partition into the brisket of a bull moose at close range from a .375 Weatherby (re-chambered old Model 70) at near maximum velocity and the bullet shattered like glass, failing to penetrate past the bones.

Fortunately, he was later able to find the animal again and shoot it in softer places, thereby putting it down finally.

He then rapidly sold that rifle and dies, then bought a .35 Whelen, with which he has used 250 gr bullets to great affect on the local fauna, no complaints.

In his excellent book "Africa's Most Dangerous", Dr. Robertson explains very well why a hunter needs no more than 2400 fps maximum for heavy dangerous game cartridges and furthermore why much velocity beyond that is actually undesirable.

 

[CTDolan]

I read an article once, regarding the 375 H&H, written by an experienced PH, wherein the author advised very strongly against pushing the 375 beyond it's original ballistics (300 grains at 2500 fps). In his considered opinion, anything more was in reality less.

 

[CTDolan]

If I remember it right, it was experience with the 375 Weatherby which led the PH to conclude that 2500 fps is the sweet spot. I wish I could find the article, but have tried several times since, with no success.

 

[colorado]

On another forum there are many complaints of the DGX coming apart with factory ammo. The Hornady solids seem well regarded. With so many good and proven .375 caliber expanding bullets out there (A-Frames, North Forks, TSX) and more than a few bad reviews of the DGX, I wouldn't use them on an elk hunt never mind cape buffalo. I know that's a bit harsh, but there it is.

 

[CTDolan]

Is the DGX not a bonded core? In today's world, I cannot imagine that it wouldn't be (that it'd be nothing more than a glorified cup & core), but if this separation issue is not an extreme anomaly, I guess that is possible.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

On another forum there are many complaints of the DGX coming apart with factory ammo. The Hornady solids seem well regarded. With so many good and proven .375 caliber expanding bullets out there (A-Frames, North Forks, TSX) and more than a few bad reviews of the DGX, I wouldn't use them on an elk hunt never mind cape buffalo. I know that's a bit harsh, but there it is.

Can't agree with that more.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Is the DGX not a bonded core? In today's world, I cannot imagine that it wouldn't be (that it'd be nothing more than a glorified cup & core), but if this separation issue is not an extreme anomaly, I guess that is possible.

As colorado was saying, I've seen more than a few of these looking like a Nosler BT. Hornady claims it has the Interlock ring that 'locks' the core and jacket together, wondering how well that works. Too many other proven weight retaining bullet options out there for me to bother with these.

 

[CTDolan]

The interlock ring is older than the hills (and not entirely effective). If that's all the DGX has, marrying the cup to the core, then yeah, it's well behind the times.

 

[CTDolan]

My early understanding of the DGX was that of a radically tapered jacket with a bonded core of differential hardness (expand the nose, easily, then retain the remainder, for penetration). But, maybe I was wrong.

 

[CTDolan]

Here you go, straight from the horse's mouth:

http://m.hornady.com/store/DGX

No mention of a soft nose and hard base, no mention of bonding.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello fellow Rifle Enthusiasts,

It appears to me that the DGX rub occurs mostly with people who are led to believe the .375 Ruger has some advantage over the original H&H version and also who only shoot factory loaded ammunition.

Unfortunately for these consumers, they are then doomed to only a very narrow choice in ammunition.
If live factory ammunition ever becomes widely available for this new Ruger cartridge (and if it does not die off like other un-needed cartridges have vanished in history), hopefully these hunters will then be able to buy live cartridges with 300 gr Swift A-Frames and other extremely tough bullets.
Until then, they are stuck with the DGX evidently.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the DGX bullet in my old .450No2 NE, because it regulated better than all others, including Woodleigh but also admittedly, I did not drive it very fast (2050 fps).
Evidently, 2500 fps might be too fast for this type of bullet....maybe.

As I posted earlier, it seems strange to me that this bullet being very similar (steel jacket, base crimped into the lead core) to the original Rigby bullet, that made the .416 Rigby and .450 NE so famous, should suddenly fail regularly now, unless of course it is being shot at too high a velocity.

I am convinced the .416 was never loaded to 2350 fps until about 30 years ago.
Before then I believe it was always loaded to only about 2200 fps and the .450 NE Flanged was probably never loaded to 2150 fps but more likely to about 2000 fps.
My experiences with the .450 No2NE (Pre-War advertised at 2175 fps) showed the best regulation (accuracy) in my specific rifle at 2050 fps.
This may vary well be the reason for the very similarly constructed DGX failing against heavy bone (2500 fps is considerably faster than the original Rigby Pre-war velocities)

My only double rifle these days is a SxS in .458 Winchester (Heym 88B) and it seems to regulate pretty well with whatever 500 gr round nosers I shoot through it.
However, if it only shot best with the DGX, I would again use them for certain African animals, including buffaloes.

All that being said, DGX steel jackets and all ..... to be on the safe side, for repeaters and single shots, I feel the A-Frame is the best choice when a premium soft is needed, such as that first shot on buffalo, provided of course it is accurate in whatever rifle you plan to use it in.

I feel it is worth repeating that Dr. Robertson submits in his excellent book, "Africa's Most Dangerous" that the .375 H&H is actually more effective on buffalo at 2400 fps (duplicates the old flanged load) than it is at the factory standard of today at 2550 fps.

Seems I read some place that Ruger claims another 50 or 100 fps over the original H&H tried and true version.
In other words the Ruger version would be going 2600 fps or more with a 300 gr bullet.
A lot of people, especially us Americanos fall for higher velocity sales pitches.
I know I have been guilty of it during the folly of my youth.
If that extra velocity claimed by Ruger is not just advertising fluff, it is all the more reason to use something like the A-Frame in their new .375 caliber/version cartridge.

Cheerio,
Velo Dog.

 

[colorado]

Thanks Velo Dog, an excellent post as usual.

 

[CTDolan]

Hello fellow Rifle Enthusiasts,

It appears to me that the DGX rub occurs mostly with people who are led to believe the .375 Ruger has some advantage over the original H&H version and also who only shoot factory loaded ammunition.

Unfortunately for these consumers, they are then doomed to only a very narrow choice in ammunition.
If live factory ammunition ever becomes widely available for this new Ruger cartridge (and if it does not die off like other un-needed cartridges have vanished in history), hopefully these hunters will then be able to buy live cartridges with 300 gr Swift A-Frames and other extremely tough bullets.
Until then, they are stuck with the DGX evidently.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the DGX bullet in my old .450No2 NE, because it regulated better than all others, including Woodleigh but also admittedly, I did not drive it very fast (2050 fps).
Evidently, 2500 fps might be too fast for this type of bullet....maybe.

As I posted earlier, it seems strange to me that this bullet being very similar (steel jacket, base crimped into the lead core) to the original Rigby bullet, that made the .416 Rigby and .450 NE so famous, should suddenly fail regularly now, unless of course it is being shot at too high a velocity.

I am convinced the .416 was never loaded to 2350 fps until about 30 years ago.
Before then I believe it was always loaded to only about 2200 fps and the .450 NE Flanged was probably never loaded to 2150 fps but more likely to about 2000 fps.
My experiences with the .450 No2NE (Pre-War advertised at 2175 fps) showed the best regulation (accuracy) in my specific rifle at 2050 fps.
This may vary well be the reason for the very similarly constructed DGX failing against heavy bone (2500 fps is considerably faster than the original Rigby Pre-war velocities)

My only double rifle these days is a SxS in .458 Winchester (Heym 88B) and it seems to regulate pretty well with whatever 500 gr round nosers I shoot through it.
However, if it only shot best with the DGX, I would again use them for certain African animals, including buffaloes.

All that being said, DGX steel jackets and all ..... to be on the safe side, for repeaters and single shots, I feel the A-Frame is the best choice when a premium soft is needed, such as that first shot on buffalo, provided of course it is accurate in whatever rifle you plan to use it in.

I feel it is worth repeating that Dr. Robertson submits in his excellent book, "Africa's Most Dangerous" that the .375 H&H is actually more effective on buffalo at 2400 fps (duplicates the old flanged load) than it is at the factory standard of today at 2550 fps.

Seems I read some place that Ruger claims another 50 or 100 fps over the original H&H tried and true version.
In other words the Ruger version would be going 2600 fps or more with a 300 gr bullet.
A lot of people, especially us Americanos fall for higher velocity sales pitches.
I know I have been guilty of it during the folly of my youth.
If that extra velocity claimed by Ruger is not just advertising fluff, it is all the more reason to use something like the A-Frame in their new .375 caliber/version cartridge.

Cheerio,
Velo Dog.

The curious thing is that Hornady publishes loads using the .375 DGX in their manual for velocities all the way up to 2900 fps (378 Weatherby).