.375 or .416 for Cape buffalo?

[Backyardsniper]

My vote is 416 or bigger. The owner of the LGS in my neck of the woods showed me a video of his buffalo encounter. He shot his with the “camp rifle” a 9.3x62, this was in S.A, he made a great frontal chest shot and actually knocked the buffalo down, it got up and he put it down again. The second buffalo then attacked the downed buffalo so they drove the vehicle in to help scare away buffalo number two which they did. He now approached his downed buffalo and squatted down to put a finishing/insurance shot in the chest. Upon receipt of this 3rd shot the buffalo got up, now the 2 ph’s joined in with their 375’s. Luckily they had driven the truck in and they managed to run around the truck and the buff turned his anger on the tire and front quarter panel of the vehicle while they were banging away with 2 375’s and a 9.3. I would not shoot less than a 416 myself. 375 works fine when everything goes fine, It is not a stopper when things go sideways.

 

[Backyardsniper]

Here’s a good resource. Recoil table. Couple mention here that 416 doesn’t have felt recoil considerably more than 375. The table shows 56% higher recoil and slightly faster recoil velocity 300 gr 375 H&H vs 400 gr 416 Rigby. I sold my Sako 416 Rigby partly because it was so unpleasant for me to shoot but I can shoot my CZ 450 Rigby without hurting my shoulder. Stock design is a big factor above 375 for me. Most anyone can shoot any rifle up to 375.

Rifle Recoil Table

Ha ha. He is not lying. I bought his Sako 416 rigby. It is an attention getter. I had a CZ 416 that recoiled considerably less. On the other hand that Sako is short, light , handy and deadly accurate and the short bolt throw makes it really fast, but she does sting a bit. I will say though I never felt it when shooting at actual game.

 

[Datchew]

There's something implied in the original question of 375 vs 416...are you looking for the ideal shot placement with the low possibility of PH follow-up...or are you hoping for the best but planning for something less than that? I love the 375 and it's my fav Africa cartridge and it will kill any buff on the planet with a good shot. One shot and this dagga boy was down in 20-30 yards in last light as he was going back into heavy cover. I was also just a few steps from this bull in really dense thorns numerous times. My next buff will be with 416 or larger. Of course the PH is there for contingencies but I like to finish what I started.

View attachment 549906

That's a really great picture. I like how you setup the viewing aspect. Nice looking beast!

 

[ldmay375]

Wow! Alot of response there!!
Woohooo...I took a few with the Mighty MastodonView attachment 550100View attachment 550101

Rest In Peace my friend.

 

[jlb1036]

I have a Blaser R8 416 Rem mag the recoil is surprisingly mild

 

[Green Chile]

I have a Blaser R8 416 Rem mag the recoil is surprisingly mild

That's interesting. I have my first R8 coming and was thinking about a 416 barrel.

 

[Daisy]

That's interesting. I have my first R8 coming and was thinking about a 416 barrel.

Getting a 416 ruger barrel made for R8.

 

[Backyardsniper]

That's interesting. I have my first R8 coming and was thinking about a 416 barrel.

I really like the 416 for a do all cartridge. Rigby or Rem. I like the rigby for the romance, but the rem is delivering the same package at the same speed. The Remington may not be capable of being hot rodded as much as the rigby due to case capacity. However 400gr at 2250-2350fps is easy with both and that's plenty of power for most situations.

 

[Green Chile]

I haven't seen 416 Rigby barrels (and I shoot that in a Dakota 76) but a 416 Rem mag will do the same thing. Considering it as an option. 375 barrel is a definite must have in the R8. 416 Rigby is ready to go back to Zim in 3 weeks for elephant.

 

[Backyardsniper]

I think the mag box on the R8 is too short for rigby.

 

[mchusmc]

Never had any issues on my 2x 375 H&H rifles with Warne qd mounts on Brno ZKK602 actions....fit them back to the front of the reses in the action no problems ever getting back to poi ....maybe issues on fancy rifles that dont have the reses but no problems on ZKK....

…..Nor I on my Ruger RSM .375 H&H using the Warne QD rings.

 

[TOBY458]

350 grain .375 are only found in the TSX, apart from the random box of old Woodleighs or the African bullet selection that are not imported here (yet). I know some don't like TSX but many PHs do. My PH said it was his fav buffalo bullet along with A-frames. What's wrong with bumping up to a 350 TSX? My 300 TSX on a buffalo frontal shot killed within seconds and penetrated 4 feet, which is excellent. SD on the 350 grain TSX is .356, which is excellent AND they are available. I will have to keep researching the subject but it might be the only super heavyweight .375 options consistently available in the States at this time.

I think you answered your own question. If the 300gr TSX gave you 4' of penetration, (I've had similar results), what's the point in going heavier with this particular brand of bullet? You can shoot them at a higher velocity than a conventional soft and still get 4' of penetration. The lower velocity, heavy for caliber recommendation for standard lead core bullets makes sense. But the TSX already doesn't expand as widely as a traditional bullet such as the Swift or Woodleigh. So going up to a 350gr TSX, with it's inherently lower velocity, would result in even less expansion. I believe the 350gr TSX would be better suited for a larger case 375, such as a 375 RUM or 378 Weatherby. And with that move up in recoil, you may as well go to a 416.

 

[Green Chile]

Good points. I also have a lot of 300 grain bullets on hand for practice and hunting. The 416 Rigby goes next month with 400 grain solids for ele.

 

[Nhoro]

Sometimes these threads make my head spin. So many different directions. I would say get back to basics- 1 accurate first shot 2 Biggest diameter hole through the vitals 3. Adequate but not excessive penetration. 4 300 gr a frame in 375 and 400 gr a frame in 416 are pretty perfectly designed for max expansion vs penetration.The 416 makes a bigger diameter hole for roughly the same penetration. The extra recoil makes it less accurate. Depending on your abilities the accuracy loss can be just a little or epic shoot your own toe off bad. So try both and see. I have seen scores of buffalo drop with one shot from a 375.

 

[BeeMaa]

That's interesting. I have my first R8 coming and was thinking about a 416 barrel.

I had a 416RM on a Blaser R8. The 22mm barrel made it heavier in the forend so I added the kickstop to balance it. It was balanced all right, but it made the rifle heavier than I expected and way to much for any kind of stalking hunt.

In the end I sold it. For the number of times I’m likely to hunt DG it wasn’t worth it to me, but I understand everyone is different. IMO - the next step up from 375 is a 458WM/LOTT. Bigger hole makes the barrel slightly lighter and it would be a dedicated elephant/rhino/buffalo gun. Just have to up my workout routine both at the gym and the range.

 

[Green Chile]

I shot a Lott and like it as well as having a lot of components for it. Thought about that R8 barrel too and wondered what it would be like on the lighter receiver? It's a definite step up from 375 and 416 levels.

 

[TOBY458]

I shot a Lott and like it as well as having a lot of components for it. Thought about that R8 barrel too and wondered what it would be like on the lighter receiver? It's a definite step up from 375 and 416 levels.

My 458 Win Mag barrel on the standard aluminum receiver, without a kickstop, is a very handy rifle. The weight of the package is as follows.

Bare rifle weight, no ammo, no sling, 8lbs 4oz.

With a Nikon 1-4×20 scope, 4 rounds of 450gr ammo, and a lightweight sling, the total weight is 10lbs 2oz.

With a Trijjicon RMR, 4 rounds and sling, the total is 9lbs 2oz.

My load is a 450gr CEB bullet at 2250 fps. Recoil, to me, is very manageable. I've owned many other brands of rifles in 458 and 416. The R8 is lighter than any of them, yet the recoil seems less to me. Rifle fit is very important, and the R8 fits me perfectly. I believe a 416 Rem Mag in the R8 would be very similar. Maybe a couple ounces heavier due to the smaller bore, but nothing major.

 

[BeeMaa]

My 458 Win Mag barrel on the standard aluminum receiver, without a kickstop, is a very handy rifle. The weight of the package is as follows.

Bare rifle weight, no ammo, no sling, 8lbs 4oz.

With a Nikon 1-4×20 scope, 4 rounds of 450gr ammo, and a lightweight sling, the total weight is 10lbs 2oz.

With a Trijjicon RMR, 4 rounds and sling, the total is 9lbs 2oz.

My load is a 450gr CEB bullet at 2250 fps. Recoil, to me, is very manageable. I've owned many other brands of rifles in 458 and 416. The R8 is lighter than any of them, yet the recoil seems less to me. Rifle fit is very important, and the R8 fits me perfectly. I believe a 416 Rem Mag in the R8 would be very similar. Maybe a couple ounces heavier due to the smaller bore, but nothing major.

@TOBY458 - Would you say this weight combination is for a more experienced big bore shooter?

 

[TOBY458]

@TOBY458 - Would you say this weight combination is for a more experienced big bore shooter?

Probably so, but it wouldn't take much shooting to get proficient with this set up. Probably an individual thing.

 

[WyoBull]

I just got back from Africa a week ago where my best friend and I both shot Buffalo along with some other animals.
I will say this. You need to shoot what you are the most comfortable shooting with the highest degree of accuracy.
I personally took my 375 H&H in Win model 70. I used my hand loads which I worked up using Barnes 300 gr TSX bullets and RL15 powder.
My one shot through the front of his chest as he was staring me down took out the top of his heart.

I took this photo at the range after we arrived in camp and verified rifle zeros. This orange sticker is 1 inch diameter and these three shots were from sticks at 100 yards.
I will take my 375 any day of the week over a bigger caliber I flinch to shoot but feel I need to use just because it is “bigger”.
Use we what you can shoot accurately and with confidence.