375 enough gun?

[garyleach]

Thank you for all the good information!! I do all my hunting with 3 calibers of Browning A-Bolts. The largest A-Bolt caliber made is a .375, the gun I wanted from the start. The reason is muscle memory, all my rifles are the same, so in the heat of the moment I'm not trying to find the safety on an unfamiliar rifle. It will be the same as coyotes with the .204 or Plains game with the '06 or elk with the .300. Thanks again guys!!

 

[garyleach]

Sorry about that, I hit send before I added my comments, but if u look at my Avatar, u will notice I am shooting the same Browning you touch base on in your thread. Any ways I went with the classic 375 HH and in the Browning because that all I shot as well, I have 2 other Brownings 270/300. I went with the 300 gr Barnes and have shot warthog to buff with great success (ok one screw up with a buff, but that was the shooter and not the gun/bullet). I cant say enough about either of them, a relatively flat shooting gun, with a reasonable recoil, that when combined with the Barnes bullet is a great combo for plains/dangerous, in my humble opinion I don't think you can go wrong!!!

 

[Rob404]

Eek good thing the avatar maintains your anonymity! Lol

I could never understand why my Ex used to get so pissed when I would go hunting during the holidays instead of spending it with her Family, a typical Joyless Women

 

[Therack]

ndard action. But.... The Hornady DGX and DGS line of ammo is the only that is available in factory ammo. It is absolute garbage and could have very well got me killed. Never again will I trust my life to it. I am a Hornady fan but this stuff is dangerous.

I live an hour away from the Hornady headquarters and this ammo is all the rage, touted as replacements for the Barnes TSX. What went wrong with the ammo? I'm considering the loads for my new gun, it's VERY concerning to me.

 

[Art Lambart II]

@gizmo

Does this mean there is a 416 Ruger for sale really cheap?

 

[Royal27]

I live an hour away from the Hornady headquarters and this ammo is all the rage, touted as replacements for the Barnes TSX. What went wrong with the ammo? I'm considering the loads for my new gun, it's VERY concerning to me.

Gizmo can tell his story and you can find it here as well with a search, but I will just say this. When there are multiple out there with a flawless reputation why bother with one that has stories of failure, especially the same story?

For DG in particular I want something that is as fail proof as I can get.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Hi guys.
Rigby Company creates their rifles uses cartridges from Hornady.
I think that the ammunitions from Hornady is good.
Witold

 

[gizmo]

@gizmo

Does this mean there is a 416 Ruger for sale really cheap?

Lol nice try. First I never have and never will sell or trade a gun. I'm a firm believer in accumulation. I also early love that rifle and it has a tremendous story that goes with it. It will be a heirloom in my family. I also dearly love the caliber. I just refuse to use the current and only available factory ammo for dangerous game again. The DGS and DGX ammo is dangerous and I'm lucky it didn't get me killed. Now by the end of a resent conversation with a man who works with Norma I had the feeling that there will be some compitition coming in the not so distant future in bullet selection available in factory loads. Once and if this happens its game over and the cartridge may very well dominate the 416 variety of cartridges.

 

[gizmo]

Gizmo can tell his story and you can find it here as well with a search, but I will just say this. When there are multiple out there with a flawless reputation why bother with one that has stories of failure, especially the same story?

For DG in particular I want something that is as fail proof as I can get.

Royal you are exactly right. It's not worth your life when there are proven rounds out there.
As far as the story people can feel free to look it up and I don't want to hijack the thread any more than I already have. I will post the pics of the recovered rounds here in just a minute.

 

[gizmo]

Ok so I will post this in the interest of the OP. If you do choose any DG caliber stay away from DGS and DGX. Here is what happens to those bullets fired from a 416 Ruger into a lion at approximately 20 to 25 yards. 5 of the 7 bullets that I shot into that cat were recovered and two were pass throughs one of which was a solid and one was a soft. In the recovered bullets 4 were softs and one was a solid. Ok so these were 400 grain bullets

the best weight retention was from a solid at roughly 60%

I know it's a solid because the bottom of the bullet is hollowed to, I assume meet the weight requirement with the length. I pulled apart an unfired solid from the same batch and the unfired bullet had the same thing. When I did this to the DGX they did not.

Here is the worst of the softs that was recovered and it's pathetic to say the least.

This is the best of the recovered softs (DGX) which is still unacceptable .

So like I said I will never trust my life to this stuff again, period. It took 7!!!! Rounds to kill that lion. Yes it was a big lion but that's unacceptable. All of which were killing shots with exceptional shot placement. Those who have seen the video will back me up on that as well as the pictures. (No I'm not posting the video for personal reasons. As a result of my current career I have to deal with enough nut jobs who threaten my family and I sure as hell don't want to add to it, sorry)

 

[gizmo]

They pretty much ran the gamut of failure all the way from complete fragmentation to core seperation. I believe it's a simple matter of pushing a bullet designed for low velocity cartridges being put in a high velocity cartridge and pushed too fast. Out of a slow cartridge they probably would do fine but I still wouldn't use them. Premium ammo is cheap when compared to human life.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

I do not know what to say Eric.
Witold

 

[gizmo]

I live an hour away from the Hornady headquarters and this ammo is all the rage, touted as replacements for the Barnes TSX. What went wrong with the ammo? I'm considering the loads for my new gun, it's VERY concerning to me.

I love Hornady ammo and bullets and use them religiously in 90% of my hand loads in 30 and under caliber. I will not ever use their DGX or DGS line of ammo again.

 

[gizmo]

I do not know what to say Eric.
Witold

Believe me Witold no one was more shocked than I. After several conversations with Hornady, Andri talked to Jason himself over the phone and I was standing there when he did, their answer was completely unacceptable.

 

[gizmo]

I will defend their small caliber bullets (30 cal and under) to the death but they can take this stuff and shove it up their posterior.

 

[Royal27]

Those who have seen the video will back me up on that as well as the pictures

I've seen the video and I back Erik up for sure.

I like Hornady too, but the DGS/DGX I will only shoot at paper.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Believe me Witold no one was more shocked than I. After several conversations with Hornady, Andri talked to Jason himself over the phone and I was standing there when he did, their answer was completely unacceptable.

Something amazing Eric.
Witold

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Hi Erik.
I have a question. From which the company was your rifle?
Witold

 

[gizmo]

Hi Erik.
I have a question. From which the company was your rifle?
Witold

Ruger Guige Gun
Ruger and Hornady teamed up a designed that cartridge.

 

[Velo Dog]

I'm looking at buying one gun for some bigger African animals. Is the .375 enough for hippo, buffalo, croc and leopard? My buddy tells me I should be looking at a .416 for the additional knockdown power.

Hello Therack,

At the risk of whipping a dead horse here, I'm one more vote with those who recommend the .375 for any hunter who only plans to have one rifle for heavy dangerous game, as well as for lighter/thin skinned game, (such as leopard that you have mentioned an interest in hunting).
When I say: ".375", I am referring to the original H&H version, despite rumors of other similarly named cartridges, which come and go from the pages of gun magazines, along with fantastic claims, showered upon us by whichever company developed them (never pass up a cheap shot, LOL).

Seriously, any of the main-stream .375s will probably do well on any of the game in the world, of course provided you squarely hit a vital spot - also provided your bullet penetrates far enough (with heavy game, often times through very stout/very impact resistant bone) to properly lacerate heart, or BOTH lungs, or spine or brain, as the case may be.
That being said, the original H&H version needs no improvement whatsoever, including a shorter bolt throw (that idea only saves the manufacturer a little bit in steel when making their down-sized receivers) or higher velocity or, whatever fantastic claim any Johnny-come-lately .375 "Inventor" may put into their advertisements.
In other words, my dos centavos worth is, to just get the H&H version, because if nothing else at least finding ammunition will be much easier, than finding it for some new-fangled cartridge will be.

Gizmo,
Your experiences with the Hornady DGX/DGS bullets are the very worst I have read about, including the one and only DGS failure I'm aware of so far.
However, there are certainly others who've posted their experienced bullet failures in this forum, regarding the DGX.
My personal experiences with these bullets are limited to only a relatively few shots into live animals (plains game and one buffalo) with the .458 diameter 480 grainers at 2050 fps muzzle velocity, from a vintage double, caliber .450 No2NE.
A couple of my recovered bullets are to be seen posted on this forum, in the Photos section.
As mentioned in a previous rant, I believe these bullets are just fine at old-timey velocities, such as what the classic British flanged cartridges were designed to utilize in the "Tropical Loadings".
Lead core bullets can over-expand or even shatter when driven too fast.
Conversely, monolithic hollow point ones (such as Barnes, etc.,) can fail to expand if impacting at too low of velocity or, for any reason the hole does not fill with blood, such as if the tip gets bent over by nicking a twig or bone at just the wrong angle, etc.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here.

Therack and Gizmo,
In the various .375 cartridges, for the typical bolt action or single shot, there is no reason not to try A-Frame bullets and various maker monolithic solids, to see if they will be accurate in your specific rifle.
Unless you do not hand load, in which case some of the "other .375s" may not be available with these excellent bullets, in live ammunition.
(Sometimes double rifles will not necessarily regulate properly with the A-Frame - unfortunately, but that is another subject altogether.)
However fortunately, it is very typical for a repeater or single shot to shoot them accurately.
The A-Frame has impressed me over and over plus, they are generally always available as both factory live ammunition and projectiles for handloading, even here in Alaska where I live.
Whether choosing live ammunition or choosing to load my own, IMO the A-Frame is the best of the best premium soft nose bullets available today.
To quote John Luyte of Duke Safaris: "I have never seen an A-Frame Fail".

Eric,
As for your .416, since you hand-load other calibers already, no doubt you are making plans to get some .416 Ruger dies and gittyup with that one soon.
Turns out Swift makes at least two A-Frame bullets suitable to this limited length cartridge (non-magnum action/magazine box).
The 400 grainer/416 Ruger I think will fit in Ruger's short magazine but, may not leave enough room in the shell for a hip boot full of powder.
However, all is not lost, because it turns out that a roughly .40 caliber/400 grainer, at around 2150 fps (probably a bit less velocity actually) is what made excellent cartridges like both versions of the 450/400 NE and the .404 Jeffery justifiably famous, including for heavy dangerous game in heavy cover.

Be that as it may, if velocity really is your thing, the .416 diameter A-Frame is available in 350 grain.
Most Americanos seem to be fascinated with light bullets and high velocity for everything - no matter what, for some reason.
Not sure what the PH community would say about the above mentioned 350 gr bullet for buffalo but, it seems to me in my simple beginner way of thinking that it'd work ok, (400 gr being so much the better IMO though).

Parting Shot - so to speak;

Therack,
You will do just fine with a .375 (even if you for some reason decide to not get the tried and true H&H version).
As for your friend's recommendation that you get a .416, you do not need one for what you are planning.
But, if you just want one (the never ending story of my rifle-collecting life), do like old Velo here and just get the Rigby, you'll thank me later.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.