358 Winchester & 9.3x57 Question About Performance

[bruce moulds]

a reference from the master would hold a lot of weight.
bruce.

 

[MS 9x56]

Scumbag..... I wonder if the 35 Oryx bullet was designed more for 358 Norma velocities?....FWB

That’s the beauty of the 358 winchester. At its speed you don’t need premium bullets to get good performance. It may not kill them any deader but it will get them there quicker.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

That’s the beauty of the 358 winchester. At its speed you don’t need premium bullets to get good performance. It may not kill them any deader but it will get them there quicker.

@MS 9x56
The little 358 with the stubby 225 grain Sierra HPBT are a match made in heaven. Great B.C. short bullet that allows more powder to be used, fits nicely in the usable velocity parameters, good price and holds together well past 150 yards.
Most importantly it kills game.
The 200 grain woodleigh would work well along with the 200 grain FTX. For bigger game the old 250 grain Hornaday roundnose with that big lead tip really works well.
In the Whelen the big 250grain round nose @2,700fps puts goofball size exit hole in oryx/gemsbuck.
Bob

 

[MS 9x56]

Would it be worth considering a 35 cal Norma oryx?

Or the 9.3x62?

 

[TOBY458]

This thread reminds of a mint condition Savage 99 358 Winchester I once owned. Man I wish I hadn't sold that one!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Or the 9.3x62?

@MS9x56
And here's me thinking you were a 35 fan so I thought you would have said or a Whelen
Bob

 

[MS 9x56]

I am a 35 Whelen fan. The 9.3x62 is my newest toy. Honestly though as the OP stated at 25 yards any of the 35's will do the job. The Remington 750 in 35 Whelen would be tailor made for that hunt.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

MS 9X56, Howdy. As a long time .358 Win shooter I have some insight on the matter. The Norma Oryx should preform great. Bonded core bullet like the Nosler Accu Bond only better. It won't blow apart at .358 Norma velocities but it will still expand at .358 Win velocities. If you use modern powders and load data to bring it up from 47000 psi to 52-55000 psi range it will come to within 100 fps of what a 35 Whelen or .350 Remington Magnum will do. Look up data in the Speer #13 manual. Better yet do a google search for Paco Kelly's article on the .358 Winchester. My go to bullet in the .358 is the Swift 225Grn A-Frame. I'd use that on anything short of buffalo.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

MS 9X56, Howdy. As a long time .358 Win shooter I have some insight on the matter. The Norma Oryx should preform great. Bonded core bullet like the Nosler Accu Bond only better. It won't blow apart at .358 Norma velocities but it will still expand at .358 Win velocities. If you use modern powders and load data to bring it up from 47000 psi to 52-55000 psi range it will come to within 100 fps of what a 35 Whelen or .350 Remington Magnum will do. Look up data in the Speer #13 manual. Better yet do a google search for Paco Kelly's article on the .358 Winchester. My go to bullet in the .358 is the Swift 225Grn A-Frame. I'd use that on anything short of buffalo.

@Rick HOlbert
Rick If'n you load the Whelen properly the 358 can't get anywhere near it with any projectiles.
Whelen 225s up to 2,950fps
Whelen 250s 2,700+ fps.
Bob

 

[MS 9x56]

MS 9X56, Howdy. As a long time .358 Win shooter I have some insight on the matter. The Norma Oryx should preform great. Bonded core bullet like the Nosler Accu Bond only better. It won't blow apart at .358 Norma velocities but it will still expand at .358 Win velocities. If you use modern powders and load data to bring it up from 47000 psi to 52-55000 psi range it will come to within 100 fps of what a 35 Whelen or .350 Remington Magnum will do. Look up data in the Speer #13 manual. Better yet do a google search for Paco Kelly's article on the .358 Winchester. My go to bullet in the .358 is the Swift 225Grn A-Frame. I'd use that on anything short of buffalo.

Funny you should mention Paco Kelly as his articles were the reason I got the BLR in 358 in the first place. I have shot the 358 out to 300 yards and that BLR shoots better than most of my bolt guns.

 

[freefall]

I shot three black bears and two moose with my BLR .358. They all fell straight down. I have not had this happen with another caliber.
I parted with it because of extraction issues, and because clients hated looking at those little cartridges. They were gruntled by my .338. But I have to shoot most things twice with it. I wonder if the bullet doesn't blow through them so fast they don't notice it?

 

[Rick HOlbert]

@Rick HOlbert
Rick If'n you load the Whelen properly the 358 can't get anywhere near it with any projectiles.
Whelen 225s up to 2,950fps
Whelen 250s 2,700+ fps.
Bob

Hello Bob, You are correct sir. My mistake. What I failed to clarify was for factory loaded 35 Whelen. Handloading then the .358 falls short f what the 35 Whelen can deliver. Good catch on your part, my bad for not being clear. LOL!

 

[MS 9x56]

Bob knows a thing or 2 about maximizing the Whelen’s potential, I can vouch for that.

 

[7x57Joe]

I joined the .35 club way back in 1978 with a Savage 99 DL in .358 Win. I liked the cartridge so much that a couple of years later I bought a Browning BLR first model and around 7 years later I had a M.70 rebarreled for the same wonderful cartridge. Last year I purchased a stainless/laminate BLR T/D that is chambered for (you guessed it) .358 Winchester a favorite.
I guess I should've rebarreled the M.70 to 35 Whelen in retrospect but, the little brother has never let me down on any game including elk which has been the largest.
One more point and I will hush. I have taken game with .25, 7mm, .30, .358, and .45 and while all killed, the .35's and up provide a much greater blood trail in the event one is needed.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

7X57 Joe you've said it all. A few years ago I lucked up and found a Ruger M77R in .358 Win. There were less than 1000 made and Ruger never cataloged that rifle like they did with the M77RS. Every load I worked up using a wide selection of bullets and powders has been outstanding in the accuracy department. I used it in Africa in 2016 on game up to Kudu and zebra and you would have thought I'd used a .375. My PH was skeptical at first looking at that stubby round but halfway through the hunt he was praising the performance of it. To those who have worked with it, there is a faithful following. I'll continue to use it as my light medium bore and never look back. Have a great day!

 

[MS 9x56]

The only ones who don’t like it seem to be the recoil adverse.

 

[7x57Joe]

The only ones who don’t like it seem to be the recoil adverse.

Who believe what they've read or heard and have never tried it for themselves to see it's no worse than a .30'06.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

7X57 Joe you've said it all. A few years ago I lucked up and found a Ruger M77R in .358 Win. There were less than 1000 made and Ruger never cataloged that rifle like they did with the M77RS. Every load I worked up using a wide selection of bullets and powders has been outstanding in the accuracy department. I used it in Africa in 2016 on game up to Kudu and zebra and you would have thought I'd used a .375. My PH was skeptical at first looking at that stubby round but halfway through the hunt he was praising the performance of it. To those who have worked with it, there is a faithful following. I'll continue to use it as my light medium bore and never look back. Have a great day!

@Rick HOlbert
There is something about the 358. It just plain works, punches well above what it paper balistics say it should. Keeps standard cup and core bullets in the right velocity for m maximum killing power and miserly use of powder.
Those that have the 358 win are very reluctant to part with them.

Also as 7x57 Joe pointed out other old cartridges in 25 cal just plain work as well for the same reasons.
Enjoy your 358s mate.
Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

bob,
speaking of calibres that work, you could include the 280 rem.
at one time it was one of the biggest reamer sales and also loading die sales.
this went under the radar compared to factory rifle sales.
it would suggest that serious riflemen were spending money to get the chambering.
and very few of those rifles seem to be flooding the market, suggesting that their owners are satisfied.
fred huntington of rcbs fame used one extensively in africa, and he would have known a bit about various cartridges.
you make a good point about cup and core bullets.
they still work when you use the right one.
in fact your 225 gn sierra in 35 cal would be a much better bullet than the nosler partition for all but small game.
bruce.

 

[MS 9x56]

The 3 rifles I will not part with Mannlicher Schoenauer model 1905 in 9x56 MS, my BLR takedown in 358 win and my Ruger model 77 RSI in 250-3000 savage. They all punch well above their weight and shoot where I look. Plus they are all short and handy in the thick stuff. One thing I do with them all is load them with heavy for caliber bullets. I have not recovered a bullet from any game with any of them as of yet.