358 Norma Magnum

[CoElkHunter]

LOL, after seeing the chart, and nothing against the .338 win mag, but every other house in Nebraska has one, the fact that I can get heavier bullets to shove harder from the .358 Norma mag makes me want it even more.
I also have eight 16 gauges and a 28 gauge, along with the best 6.5 ever built in the Swede.

Philip1976,
That's good that every other house in Nebraska harbors a .338 WM. If you had one too, would make it a whole lot easier to beg, borrow or steal ammo and/or components in today's COVID/Biden fueled ammo/ component shortages world. It would also save you a trip to Sweden to find stuff for both your Norma .358 and 6.5. And what's up with the 6.5 Swede? I believe in Nebraska, they're all 6.5 Crudmoor shooters aren't they? Ha! Ha! Ha!
CEH

 

[dchamp]

@philip 1976
@dchamp writes with forked pen and give unfair comparison.
The Whelen loaded properly gives 2,700+ fps with 250 grainers putting it in the 338 class and just fractionally behind the Norma.
The 275s can do over 2,500 fps in the Whelen and that will change the out come.
I didn't notice any loads for the 275 grain 338 but that's not surprising.
Those that like the 338 will skew the figures to suit themselves a 225 grain accubond in the Whelen @2,900 fps leaves the 338 in its wake. In the 358 Norma it is even further behind. You need to choose the right powder for the big Swede and I don't think Re17 is it but I could be wrong.
Bob

Now Bob, the only thing forked about my pen is I stayed within the perimeters set forth by SAAMI and CIP using a modeling program. I guess that would make it a digital two tanged fork, huh. You should consider setting aside your wand for the comparison as most people are going into wizard land. Now if your loads are within SAAMI and CIP specs then I'll eat crow and apologize now.

Alliant's 2000MR is a very good powder that is somewhat similar to CFE223. The last I check it was not made available to QuickLoad, by Alliant Powder.

Woodleigh does not make a PP bullet in .338 caliber heavier than 250grain. I chose to use only one manufacture and one style of bullet across the board, with the chosen weights, to keep it an apples - apples comparison as best I could.

You are right you can make the 275gr Woodleigh PP reach 2500+ fps at around 65,000psi. At least according to QuickLoad. But then you are in Wizard territory with a wand.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Philip1976,
That's good that every other house in Nebraska harbors a .338 WM. If you had one too, would make it a whole lot easier to beg, borrow or steal ammo and/or components in today's COVID/Biden fueled ammo/ component shortages world. It would also save you a trip to Sweden to find stuff for both your Norma .358 and 6.5. And what's up with the 6.5 Swede? I believe in Nebraska, they're all 6.5 Crudmoor shooters aren't they? Ha! Ha! Ha!
CEH

@CoElkHunter
You could get a 35 of some sort and be the new kid on the block. Start a 35 revolution grasshopper.
Be like Paul Revere for the 35s.
Drive around in your pick up with a loud hailer yelling out the 35 caliber is coming the 35 caliber is coming.
Bob

 

[Badboymelvin]

Philip1976,
That's good that every other house in Nebraska harbors a .338 WM. If you had one too, would make it a whole lot easier to beg, borrow or steal ammo and/or components in today's COVID/Biden fueled ammo/ component shortages world. It would also save you a trip to Sweden to find stuff for both your Norma .358 and 6.5. And what's up with the 6.5 Swede? I believe in Nebraska, they're all 6.5 Crudmoor shooters aren't they? Ha! Ha! Ha!
CEH

I absolutely love my .338WM. Mine is a Winchester M70 synthetic matte, CRF and I just cant fault it.
My main quarry is big Sambar deer and I would never consider swapping it for anything. I think I have the perfect caliber for the hunting I do.
Ammo and loading components are easy to find as well as load data and rifles.

Nothing against the .358 though... it looks to be an impressive round.
I actually don't know anyone who's ever had one but I can totally understand someone choosing a cartridge thats a bit different. That's where the fun is

 

[CoElkHunter]

@CoElkHunter
You could get a 35 of some sort and be the new kid on the block. Start a 35 revolution grasshopper.
Be like Paul Revere for the 35s.
Drive around in your pick up with a loud hailer yelling out the 35 caliber is coming the 35 caliber is coming.
Bob

Bob,
Now I'm thinking about a .350 Remington Magnum? I already have a set of new dies and could form the brass from the .338 cases. Wouldn't have to fly to Sweden for the stuff. Savage 110, short action, 24" barrel?
CEH

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Now Bob, the only thing forked about my pen is I stayed within the perimeters set forth by SAAMI and CIP using a modeling program. I guess that would make it a digital two tanged fork, huh. You should consider setting aside your wand for the comparison as most people are going into wizard land. Now if your loads are within SAAMI and CIP specs then I'll eat crow and apologize now.

Alliant's 2000MR is a very good powder that is somewhat similar to CFE223. The last I check it was not made available to QuickLoad, by Alliant Powder.

Woodleigh does not make a PP bullet in .338 caliber heavier than 250grain. I chose to use only one manufacture and one style of bullet across the board, with the chosen weights, to keep it an apples - apples comparison as best I could.

You are right you can make the 275gr Woodleigh PP reach 2500+ fps at around 65,000psi. At least according to QuickLoad. But then you are in Wizard territory with a wand.

@dchamp
Unfortunately some of the newer powders haven't made it to quick load or load from a disc yet. Dang hornaday is still figuring out what calibers superformance is suitable for. It is only listed in a few calibers but really shines in my 25 with heavy bullets and 100 grainers.
As you can see Speer is trying to keep up with the newer powders.
These types of conversations are good as it provides forum members with even more information on loading different calibers that is not easy to find.
Thank you
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob,
Now I'm thinking about a .350 Remington Magnum? I already have a set of new dies and could form the brass from the .338 cases. Wouldn't have to fly to Sweden for the stuff. Savage 110, short action, 24" barrel?
CEH

@CoElkHunter
Now you are talking young grasshopper but I'm sure you can find some 350 rem mag cases ore someone could donate some to you to help you on your journey of enlightenment.
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

I absolutely love my .338WM. Mine is a Winchester M70 synthetic matte, CRF and I just cant fault it.
My main quarry is big Sambar deer and I would never consider swapping it for anything. I think I have the perfect caliber for the hunting I do.
Ammo and loading components are easy to find as well as load data and rifles.

Nothing against the .358 though... it looks to be an impressive round.
I actually don't know anyone who's ever had one but I can totally understand someone choosing a cartridge thats a bit different. That's where the fun is

Badboymelvin,
There you go! A .338WM and your .458WM, just like my choices. If/when you decide to venture into the .416 realm, find a good used .458 or .338 and put a .416 Taylor chambered barrel on it. Neck down the .458 brass or neck up the .338 brass, and you have the Taylor cartridge. No messing with the action, magazine or anything else, since all the brass is the same length/width. That IS "where the funs at!". Ha! Ha!
CEH

 

[CBH Australia]

I absolutely love my .338WM. Mine is a Winchester M70 synthetic matte, CRF and I just cant fault it.
My main quarry is big Sambar deer and I would never consider swapping it for anything. I think I have the perfect caliber for the hunting I do.
Ammo and loading components are easy to find as well as load data and rifles.

Nothing against the .358 though... it looks to be an impressive round.
I actually don't know anyone who's ever had one but I can totally understand someone choosing a cartridge thats a bit different. That's where the fun is

My Mexican mate has just bought a .338 win mag for professional use on Sambar. He is in pest management. Now he is only a young grasshopper but I bet he has done his research and due diligence. He is pretty clued up on tech specs and stuff.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

My Mexican mate has just bought a .338 win mag for professional use on Sambar. He is in pest management. Now he is only a young grasshopper but I bet he has done his research and due diligence. He is pretty clued up on tech specs and stuff.

@CBH
Maybe your young Mexican mate could join @CoElkHunter at 35 school and learn of the benefits of the 35s
I can't see why he wants to be slapped silly cull hunting when the 30/06 or the 308 is more than enough.
Hell even a 222 Remington will do for culling as you are allowed to cull under light on private property in Victoria now. If he can't hit a sambar in the head at a max of 100 yards there's something wrong.
I know a person that culls them around Bright and uses a night vision scope and a 22 magnum. Limits his shots to 75 yards and has not had a problem yet.
The young have many lessons to learn but it is a fun time learning.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I absolutely love my .338WM. Mine is a Winchester M70 synthetic matte, CRF and I just cant fault it.
My main quarry is big Sambar deer and I would never consider swapping it for anything. I think I have the perfect caliber for the hunting I do.
Ammo and loading components are easy to find as well as load data and rifles.

Nothing against the .358 though... it looks to be an impressive round.
I actually don't know anyone who's ever had one but I can totally understand someone choosing a cartridge thats a bit different. That's where the fun is

@Badboymelvin
You should try a properly loaded Whelen with 250 grain round noses mate. You can actually see the animal is rocked by the impact. If you want to go from backside to breakfast use a 220 grain Atomic 29.
Bob

 

[Badboymelvin]

@CBH
Maybe your young Mexican mate could join @CoElkHunter at 35 school and learn of the benefits of the 35s
I can't see why he wants to be slapped silly cull hunting when the 30/06 or the 308 is more than enough.
Hell even a 222 Remington will do for culling as you are allowed to cull under light on private property in Victoria now. If he can't hit a sambar in the head at a max of 100 yards there's something wrong.
I know a person that culls them around Bright and uses a night vision scope and a 22 magnum. Limits his shots to 75 yards and has not had a problem yet.
The young have many lessons to learn but it is a fun time learning.

I do not agree at all with the person you know...

This is only my opinion but...

The .22 mag is not a Sambar caliber.
The .222 is not a Sambar caliber.
The goal is to dispatch them as cleanly as possible - not to see how small a caliber we can get away with...

With hunting, on a good day anything works - but on a bad day we need every advantage we can get.

My advice to a new hunter who wants to hunt Sambar is use the BIGGEST caliber they can shoot comfortably.
If that's a .308 fine.
If that's a .30-06 fine.
If thats a .338 fine.
I have been in situations where I've hunted Sambar with other people and it's all gone pear shaped - and my .458 had to save the day.

If someone said to me that the biggest caliber they can comfortably shoot is a .222 I'd say they're not ready to hunt Sambar.

I know it's not perfect but there is a reason we have min caliber requirements in Victoria.

My opinion may be an unpopular one but that's my honest feelings on the subject.

I also think that the .358 would make an EXCELLENT Sambar cartridge...

Russ

 

[Badboymelvin]

@Badboymelvin
You should try a properly loaded Whelen with 250 grain round noses mate. You can actually see the animal is rocked by the impact. If you want to go from backside to breakfast use a 220 grain Atomic 29.
Bob

I'm sure thats an effective load but I'm a .338 fan so I'll stick to my mild load consisting of the 225gn Woodleigh at a lazy 2750fps...
I know I can get the 250's that fast but I just don't need it.
The 225's at 2750fps is mild but effective

I also think it's great what you have been able to do with your Whelen.

And yes, I'm keen to try the Atomic's - I have never seen a bad review on them

Russ

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I do not agree at all with the person you know...

This is only my opinion but...

The .22 mag is not a Sambar caliber.
The .222 is not a Sambar caliber.
The goal is to dispatch them as cleanly as possible - not to see how small a caliber we can get away with...

With hunting, on a good day anything works - but on a bad day we need every advantage we can get.

My advice to a new hunter who wants to hunt Sambar is use the BIGGEST caliber they can shoot comfortably.
If that's a .308 fine.
If that's a .30-06 fine.
If thats a .338 fine.
I have been in situations where I've hunted Sambar with other people and it's all gone pear shaped - and my .458 had to save the day.

If someone said to me that the biggest caliber they can comfortably shoot is a .222 I'd say they're not ready to hunt Sambar.

I know it's not perfect but there is a reason we have min caliber requirements in Victoria.

My opinion may be an unpopular one but that's my honest feelings on the subject.

I also think that the .358 would make an EXCELLENT Sambar cartridge...

Russ

@Badboymelvin
I concur with your thoughts the person that uses the 22 mag uses it with night vision optics and usually shoots them at 50 yards and always head shots. Under light and for headshots only the 222 would be fine. These are culling situations only.
For hunting I wouldn't condone the use of anything smaller than 270 win. I have shot sambar with my 303 and 150grain Barnes TSX, 270 with the Australian made ACP, 308, 30/06 and 444 Marlin and found all of them more than able to despatch sambar in hunting situations as long as I did my part.
Hunting is totally different to culling. Culling is usually done at night at closer ranges and under light where the animal has no chance and smaller calibers are used.
Hunting pits your skill against the animal in the e it environment c.f. in daylight and an adequate caliber must be used. If the chosen caliber is deemed to much it doesn't matter as long as it is shot well and kills the animal cleanly .
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm sure thats an effective load but I'm a .338 fan so I'll stick to my mild load consisting of the 225gn Woodleigh at a lazy 2750fps...
I know I can get the 250's that fast but I just don't need it.
The 225's at 2750fps is mild but effective

I also think it's great what you have been able to do with your Whelen.

And yes, I'm keen to try the Atomic's - I have never seen a bad review on them

Russ

@Badboymelvin

Russ a 225 grain Woodleigh PPSP at 2,750 out of a 338 or 35 has more than enough power for sambar and is very mild as you said.
I have yet to try the Whelen on Sambar but hope to next year. I will either use the 225 grain Woodleigh round nose or the 220 grain Atomic 29.
Ted Mitchell put me onto the atomics and he swears by them on scrub bulls and water buffalo here out of his 358 Mitchell Express. They also work well on wild dogs.
Unfortunately as you know due to shoulder surgery I am able to use nothing bigger than my hornet for a while and them my 25 by October and maybe next year before I get back to the 35. Knowing me I will be using it well before that tho
Bob

 

[Badboymelvin]

If you're ever down Melbourne way Bob make sure you msg me and we'll head out to my Sambar spot
And bring your Whelen!
That offer extends to anyone on this forum BTW

Russ

 

[CBH Australia]

@CBH
Maybe your young Mexican mate could join @CoElkHunter at 35 school and learn of the benefits of the 35s
I can't see why he wants to be slapped silly cull hunting when the 30/06 or the 308 is more than enough.
Hell even a 222 Remington will do for culling as you are allowed to cull under light on private property in Victoria now. If he can't hit a sambar in the head at a max of 100 yards there's something wrong.
I know a person that culls them around Bright and uses a night vision scope and a 22 magnum. Limits his shots to 75 yards and has not had a problem yet.
The young have many lessons to learn but it is a fun time learning.

Yep, I understand. I too have worked in pest management and met many experts in government jobs.
My Mexican mate also made a living harvesting roos in NSW while his cook was a Governess for a spell.
My Mexican mate says he wants the Sambar to stay dead. I don't argue with that as he expanded the small enterprise he started part time, going fulltime by buying a business to get Government contracts. I reckon he will do well, even with a .338.

My mate on the Mexican border is a keen Deer hunter and runs a .325wssm.

And I hope our Mexican friend Russ @Badboymelvin doesn't take offence to the Mexican tag.
I have a .375H&H so I'll be in favour over Bob,
I want stuff to stay stopped too. And I don't want to be undergunned and have someone have to stop what I shoulda killed with my shot. Regardless of time, species or technological assistance. As a pest shooter I don't always get a perfect opportunity present.
I've head-shot Fallow under ideal conditions.
But all I ever heard on Sambar is they are big, tough and often elusive.

 

[Badboymelvin]

Yep, I understand. I too have worked in pest management and met many experts in government jobs.
My Mexican mate also made a living harvesting roos in NSW while his cook was a Governess for a spell.
My Mexican mate says he wants the Sambar to stay dead. I don't argue with that as he expanded the small enterprise he started part time, going fulltime by buying a business to get Government contracts. I reckon he will do well, even with a .338.

My mate on the Mexican border is a keen Deer hunter and runs a .325wssm.

And I hope our Mexican friend Russ @Badboymelvin doesn't take offence to the Mexican tag.
I have a .375H&H so I'll be in favour over Bob,
I want stuff to stay stopped too. And I don't want to be undergunned and have someone have to stop what I shoulda killed with my shot. Regardless of time, species or technological assistance. As a pest shooter I don't always get a perfect opportunity present.
I've head-shot Fallow under ideal conditions.
But all I ever heard on Sambar is they are big, tough and often elusive.

No offence at all mate
And what you've heard about Sambar is correct - they are indeed big, tough and elusive.
The .338 certainly does the job on them and if I had to pick a perfect Sambar cartridge, the .338 would be it.
The .375 would be just more of a good thing...

Russ

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If you're ever down Melbourne way Bob make sure you msg me and we'll head out to my Sambar spot
And bring your Whelen!
That offer extends to anyone on this forum BTW

Russ

@Badboymelvin
Russ thank you for your kind offer. It would give me great pleasure to hunt with you and you could leave the 338 at home and use the Whelen.
Unfortunately the way things look it might not be for a while
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Yep, I understand. I too have worked in pest management and met many experts in government jobs.
My Mexican mate also made a living harvesting roos in NSW while his cook was a Governess for a spell.
My Mexican mate says he wants the Sambar to stay dead. I don't argue with that as he expanded the small enterprise he started part time, going fulltime by buying a business to get Government contracts. I reckon he will do well, even with a .338.

My mate on the Mexican border is a keen Deer hunter and runs a .325wssm.

And I hope our Mexican friend Russ @Badboymelvin doesn't take offence to the Mexican tag.
I have a .375H&H so I'll be in favour over Bob,
I want stuff to stay stopped too. And I don't want to be undergunned and have someone have to stop what I shoulda killed with my shot. Regardless of time, species or technological assistance. As a pest shooter I don't always get a perfect opportunity present.
I've head-shot Fallow under ideal conditions.
But all I ever heard on Sambar is they are big, tough and often elusive.

@CBH
Chris as the saying goes use enough gun for your hunting.
More is better you can't have to much gun.
They are big and elusive but they aren't armour plated.
Your 280AI with a 160 Accubond or Woodleigh would be just the thing. Even your 7mm 08 would be fine in my book.
Bob