358 Barnes Johnson Express

[Nyala23]

Was intrigued by a rifle. Anyone have any information on this one? Ended meeting this one in a custom and now want one!

 

[TheDoubleD]

Word of advice, if you get that .358 BJE, slug the bore before shooting.

I have a .404 Barnes Express. It didn't shoot very well with .411 bullets. Slugged the bore and found the major diameter was .416. Tried .416 bullet and the gun became a virtual tack driver.

Learned during my research Barnes was known for naming guns on the old British standard, using the minor-bore diameter.

 

[Nyala23]

Thank you. Was that Fred Barnes? Grafs has brass as a special order. I asked a manufacturer about dies. Could hear the laughter withou the phone

 

[TheDoubleD]

Sorry, been away to the deer lease trying to reduce the number of feral hogs on the place.

Yes Fred Barnes the original Barnes guy.

Two place to find you dies-maybe. The Commercial mass production guys won't always be able to help anymore.

CH4D and Whidden Gun works

Whidden currently has a notice up say custom die orders are suspended. That can be an ominous warning or simply a pause while the catch upon there work. I would contact them and see if the will resume custom dies in the future. I have a set of the dies for my .404 BJ Express. They were not cheap. But they are an exquisite precise made tool. See there website for details.

Custom Reloading Dies - Whidden Gunworks

Custom Dies We have currently suspended the acceptance of new custom die orders. All orders currently in process will be fulfilled as promised. Whether

www.whiddengunworks.com

CH4D is an old company that has been around for years. They used to make custom dies from your fired brass. I do not know for sure if the still do, but contact them and ask. https://chtoolanddie.com/company/about-us

 

[Nyala23]

Spoke to CHT&D. 24 month lead. Minimum/max cost estimate told me they have no interest. Called Whidden and no return contact. Will try again Tuesday. Either I find some on the forums or it will “evolve “ eventually. Nothing has to happen fast. Maybe a member of the forum has a set somewhere. Thanks for the reply. Hope the work on the hogs was successful!

 

[Nyala23]

PO Ackley had some information in his 1959 book on the Barnes wildcats. I’ve been told the guy to talk to is Fred Zeglin. I’ve a message in to him. I don’t currently have Ackleys book. I loaned it a decade ago and it hasn’t found its way home do you have either authors book illustrating them? If so which one. I’ll order soonest. Thanks

 

[TheDoubleD]

I find it interesting Graf is selling this brass. You might contact them and see if they might be able help. Why are they supplying this brass? Some background on that might point you to some dies.

I also would go back to CH4D. Since the owner Dave Davison passed away the company has been reorganized and is now back to being CH Tool and Die-still operated by the Davison Family.

Here is a link to their die page and the part on custom dies. https://chtoolanddie.com/calibers/groups

I find CH's price and wait time reasonable.

I could have went the CH route for my .404 Exp dies. I had the gun 25 years before getting dies. At the time I was in the mood to order, Dave Davison was either passing or had just passed and things at CH4D were a bit unsettled. Whiddon could supply the dies in several months at almost twice the money. I think they quoted me 6 months I had them in 3 months. Like I may have already said the Whiddon makes some incredible tooling.

For the first 25 years I used other dies to load my cartridge. I think I used .416 Rem Mag dies. They would size the neck just fine, but not the body. But that was a while back. I would have to go dig the cases out but I believe I started with 300 Win Mag. Later I know made some cases from .375 H&H cases.

One thing I learned was that the .416 Taylor cartridge would fit my chamber. My loaded rounds would fit the Taylor chamber, but only with extreme difficulty. Taylor cartridge had a minutely smaller shoulder diameter, all else appeared the same. Sizing my fired cases in a Taylor die showed some distinct resizing on the shoulder diameter. I chose not go that route as I didn't want to deal with excessive resizing on the shoulder.

The .416 Taylor was originally the .416 Chatfield-Taylor. Chatfield being the originator. Barnes-Johnson proceeded Chatfield by several years. I do wonder.

Here is a photo from my copy of Ackley on your cartridge. Something to keep in mind about Loads in Ackley, you should always treat then as Maximum and reduce to start.

 

[Nyala23]

Thanks so much!! I’ll have it in hand tomorrow and will try some 338 brass to fire form. I can seat with a 358 win but scratching my head over neck sizing Maybe a 358 Norma. I think a friend has that one

 

[TheDoubleD]

I think the first cartridges I fire in my gun were .338 Win Mag. That how I learn it's basic chamber shape. I do believe those cases were too short.

 

[jruby]

I have had excellent results fireforming 404 Barnes and Johnson express.i just run new 338WM brass through the sizing die and load a 300g barnes on it and take them shooting. Initial impressio is that it works well. I use 416 Taylor load dara.

 

[TheDoubleD]

WM or WM? Winchester or Weatherby?

 

[jruby]

WM or WM? Winchester or Weatherby?

Winchester magnum. I also use them to form 358 norma and 30-338 brass

 

[Nyala23]

Grafs carried the brass for a customer who hasn’t ordered in a couple of years. Also the supreme versions. Had hoped they would share my info with that customer but the cs rep I spoke to was very reluctant. Hope Hornady will be more workable than cot&d. We will see

 

[Nyala23]

Annealed both 338 and 300 win cases. 12 grains hp38 paper towel over powder. White cornmeal to base of neck and a paraffin bullet. Cases formed pretty well. Have a bunch of Remington 180’s. The 300’s need trimmed. lol. That’s what’s loaned out so will make light loads in 338 while trimmer is in shipping.

 

[Nyala23]

Found all the cartridge specs in Handloaders Guide to Cartridge conversions. Made up cases with both 338 and 300 win. 338’s too short. 300 wins formed up well and will be going to Hornady tomorrow. Dies very reasonable and turnaround is as well. Fireforming loads with a 200 grain Remington RN were remarkable mild. Booked about 2600. Didn’t chrony as was in a hurry to get around for work. Plan to try some accubonds and eldx. Will report back

 

[Nyala23]

Thanks to all whose support and experience, encouraged me to get this old warhorse back to the woods!

 

[TheDoubleD]

Glad to hear Hornady is going to help you. They haven't always been willing in the past.

Let us know how that goes.