358 and 308 Bullets Question Bear Hunting

[Rick HOlbert]

On a different note, has anyone tried Cutting Edge Bullets in a 358? Not for bear. But a 160 grain CEB could go pretty fast out of a 358 if I wanted to shoot a bit farther.

Luke, I haven't used the cutting edge bullets. That weight is very light for the 358 and yes you could push them rather fast. Low BC but should be ok on whitetail size game. Look at the Speer #13 manual, you can run a 180grn bullet to near 2800fps. That matches a 30-06! No one has ever call the 30-06 a short range brush cartridge. I guess as an old student of Elmer Keith I lean toward the heavy bullet side and even for longer shots I'll stick with the Swift 225grn A-Frame. But that is part of the fun of handloading experimenting with different bullet/powder combinations. Let us know what you come up with.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It looks like it would be ok for lighter game. The issue with the .358 is I don't think you'd be able to fit enough powder in the case to push it much faster than a 180 goes. My loads for a 200 grain bullet arent even close to max using Win 748 and the almost fills the case to the top. You wouldnt fit any more powder in there and so with a lighter bullet, you might even lose speed.

@Alaska Luke
Stick with the 200s and 225 flat based mate the will do all you want. It was designed for heavier bullets not lighter.
Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

Luke, I haven't used the cutting edge bullets. That weight is very light for the 358 and yes you could push them rather fast. Low BC but should be ok on whitetail size game. Look at the Speer #13 manual, you can run a 180grn bullet to near 2800fps. That matches a 30-06! No one has ever call the 30-06 a short range brush cartridge. I guess as an old student of Elmer Keith I lean toward the heavy bullet side and even for longer shots I'll stick with the Swift 225grn A-Frame. But that is part of the fun of handloading experimenting with different bullet/powder combinations. Let us know what you come up with.

a 180 gn 358 bullet in 35 cal does not equal a 180 gn 30 cal in anything but velocity at the muzzle.
tenminal performance and trajectory are on a different page.
bruce.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

@Alaska Luke
Stick with the 200s and 225 flat based mate the will do all you want. It was designed for heavier bullets not lighter.
Bob

Bob I concur with your advise. Personally I've settled on 225grn bullets in my 358. The trajectory is not that much different at reasonable hunting ranges and the terminal performance on game is outstanding.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

a 180 gn 358 bullet in 35 cal does not equal a 180 gn 30 cal in anything but velocity at the muzzle.
tenminal performance and trajectory are on a different page.
bruce.

Different page? Yes indeed. The 358 excels over the 30-06. Terminal performance is better and animal reaction to the hit is markedly more pronounced. The only place the 180grn 358 suffers in compared to the 30 caliber 180 is sectional density.

 

[bruce moulds]

we'll just have to differ on that one.
my experience seems to align with bob .
the 180 358 might suit smaller game, but as you say sectional density is lacking.
bruce.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

we'll just have to differ on that one.
my experience seems to align with bob .
the 180 358 might suit smaller game, but as you say sectional density is lacking.
bruce.

No problem Bruce. That's the pleasure of forums like this in that opinions differ. I respect yours. No hard feelings I hope.

 

[Alaska Luke]

Cutting Edge lists fairly good (maybe optimistic) BC for their light bullets if I recall. Might be better than a traditional light bullet. And yes I know it won't turn my 358 into a 30-06. But it might buy a few yards over say an A Frame.

With the shortage of everything I'm not experimenting anytime soon though. Gonna stick with one max load and one light practice load. I know they both work.

See originally I had a scheme to sneak up a small river with a Mokai (basically a jet boat kayak, about 11 feet long). There was rumored to be good moose and caribou hunting up this skinny little river. A short handy rifle (think saddle gun) would have been perfect for sticking in a small boat. Sadly my job changed and I'll probably hunt a different area. To bad it would have been an interesting hunt. At any rate the need to load the 358 up as an ultralight rifle for moose/caribou is mostly academic now. But its great for carrying to check bear baits. My brother gets here next week. I'll update if he kills a bear with it.

 

[colorado]

A-Frame no question. It is not too tough. It will open up on black bear and grizzlies and still hold together. Here's a 300g A-Frame after penetrating a 900 Alaskan brown bear diagonally, started at the right shoulder, ended up in the hide in the left rear thigh. Still weighs 299.5 grains, opened up beautifully

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

A-Frame no question. It is not too tough. It will open up on black bear and grizzlies and still hold together. Here's a 300g A-Frame after penetrating a 900 Alaskan brown bear diagonally, started at the right shoulder, ended up in the hide in the left rear thigh. Still weighs 299.5 grains, opened up beautifully

View attachment 403792

@colorado
Can't compĺain at that.
Bob

 

[Alaska Luke]

Thanks ya'll. Fingers crossed. First hunt is this weekend. We'll see if we get a shot.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

That's the kind of performance you like to see. Frankly hunters owe a debt of gratitude to old Nosler for developing the partition bullet and starting the premium bullet trend. For those of us who started our hunting carriers just after the advent of spears and stone axes, bullet performance was iffy. Too close and they blew up on impact. Too far and they failed to expand. Getting a bullet to operate properly over a wide velocity range borders on voodoo magic. Fast forward to today and we now have bullets from several makers that gives us what we need. Nothing wrong with current cup and core bullets for the smaller game (whitetail, etc.) but if you're shelling out the coin for that once in a lifetime hunt go with the premium bullet. It's the cheapest part of the hunt.

 

[bruce moulds]

A-Frame no question. It is not too tough. It will open up on black bear and grizzlies and still hold together. Here's a 300g A-Frame after penetrating a 900 Alaskan brown bear diagonally, started at the right shoulder, ended up in the hide in the left rear thigh. Still weighs 299.5 grains, opened up beautifully

View attachment 403792

you have nailed the swift bullet.
some think that because they penetrate they are too hard to open up fast.
nothing is further from the truth.
they open rapidly, but unlike varmint bullets retain a lot of weight as you demonstrated.
they probably have the broadest spectrum of game suitability of almost any bullet.
i have never tried the solid base with bonded core noses, but they might be similar.
bruce.

 

[Alaska Luke]

The anticipation is killing me. We have game camera footage of 2 grizzly in one spot and a grizzly and a black bear family in another spot. Probably can't hunt till Saturday.
Hopefully bro likes the 358. I'll report results. Might do an actual autopsy this time.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Leaving for Namibia this Monday. I'll be using Swift A-Frames in my 9.3X62. I'll let you know how they do. Used them in 375 H&H the last trip in 2019 with excellent results. I don't foresee any problems. Good luck on your bear hunt.

 

[BeeMaa]

The anticipation is killing me. We have game camera footage of 2 grizzly in one spot and a grizzly and a black bear family in another spot. Probably can't hunt till Saturday.
Hopefully bro likes the 358. I'll report results. Might do an actual autopsy this time.

I read this thread this morning and I'm as psyched as you are. Good luck to both of you.

 

[ChrisG]

The anticipation is killing me. We have game camera footage of 2 grizzly in one spot and a grizzly and a black bear family in another spot. Probably can't hunt till Saturday.
Hopefully bro likes the 358. I'll report results. Might do an actual autopsy this time

Let us know how the .358 performs for you. I have shot mine a bunch but I always seem to have another rifle with me when game walks in front of me.

 

[Alaska Luke]

Looking like he'll use the 308 for now. He shot both and groups with the 308 were much better. He reported that the stock and scope fit a lot better and felt more "intuitive." The 358 just didn't fit him well. I'm sure he could master it but we're hunting not target practicing. For his first bear I want him using something he doesn't have to think about.

Bear activity seems slow here. We put out more bait after a couple days of rain. Fingers crossed.

I guess if the 308 works we'll know the 358 would have worked better.

 

[bruce moulds]

and what happens if it doesn't.?
the worst thing will be that bob said "you should have used the 35."
bruce.

 

[Alaska Luke]

Well last night we got a black bear.

Bro did an awesome job but he freely admits having a bear in his sights got the heart racing. He forgot to take the safety off the first time we saw a bear. Fortunately a bigger one showed up later and he sealed the deal.

I think I feel good going with what was intuitive over a bit more powerful. Your first bear hunt is no time to break in a new gun.

The was the fattest bear I've shot. We were carving off peice of fat 1/2 thick. You had to peel thr fat back to know where to make cuts in the actual meat. The 308 with a 200 grain Partition did fine obviously. Full penetration at a slight angle and a dead bear.

We're going to try for a grizzly next. But even if we strike out there its been a great trip for bro. The black bear is in good shape and will make a nice rug.