.357 Magnum for bear defense

[spike.t]

never been near a bear, but after seeing some of those BIG ones as full standing mounts at SCI i would go for the .454 casull me thinks, as its under 12mm and as has been said you can use .45 lc in it as well. i used to have a casull revolver but for what you want i much prefer the looks and double action of @Bullthrower338 ruger alaskan

 

[ArmyGrunt]

That gets even more expensive and can be on going.

I think of all the firearms that I could of bought with the money I gave my ex.

I got out pretty fortunate.




But back on topic, I can't wait to fill the bear space in my house!

 

[sandman0921]

Opposite Pole,

This has been a subject that is sort of near and dear to my heart. I had never really had much fear of bears in the wild, and always thought seeing them would be really neat, and I still do...as long as it's from a distance. Last year however, in preparation for my moose and caribou hunt in the Northwest Territories of Canada, I found out that a moose hunter, guided by the same outfit I was hunting with, two years prior had been killed by a big mountain grizzly while he and the guide were breaking down a big bull moose he had shot that day. The next year, another bow hunter that was hunting for moose was up on a ridge glassing and calling for a bull with his guide. A mountain grizzly came from behind them out of nowhere and attacked the hunter and mauled him very badly before the guide could scare the bear away with his rifle. Both of these happened the same week of September in back to back years, and in the same remote area of the concession. And to add a cherry on top, I was going to be hunting that same week in 2016, and in that same area. Needless to say, I became very concerned.

I began to read that the bears encountered "up close and personal" in that area were starting to become more common over the last several years, as they have not been legally hunted in over 30 years. It's such a remote area that many of those bears had never even seen a human. I emailed the outfitter, and he was very upfront about the attacks. It had been 40+ years operating in those mountains without one serious bear incident, and then they had 2 very serious attacks back to back. When I arrived in camp, there actually was a gentleman that had been hunting that week the hunter was killed, and the story was terrible for sure as far as the details of the incident. Actually both attacks were freak, but terrible things....

Anyways, I started obsessing on the merits of bear spray versus firearms. Most of the "experts" feel that bear spray is more effective if only because most people don't practice stopping a charge (bear, leopard, lion, buffalo, etc.) with a firearm and bear spray gives you a broader pattern to hit with. The problem with spray, just as with a firearms, you don't really deploy the spray until the bear is within a 30 foot radius. And as fast as a mature bear can close on you (sprint 35 mph), it's not an easy proposition. As an aside, the guides up there giggled at the idea of bear spray. They all called it bear "picante", and said they've even witnessed bears licking the stuff when it's been sprayed in an area. They all carried lever-action 45-70's loaded with heavy bullets and iron sights. In the end, I chose to carry both bear spray and my 338 Win Mag. I had even entertained taking my Ruger M77 in 375 Ruger, but opted to stick with the 338 only because the shots at caribou can be a little long. We were close to bears every day up there, and saw several. Lots of sign every where you looked. We had a close encounter at 20 yds on the first day with a grizzly on the way back to our spike camp, and it bluffed charged us before turning and running off. I never really saw the bear until we had walked past it and heard it behind us. When I turned around, it was standing on its hind legs looking over the chest deep willows at us. It then dropped down, and eventually ran off. The guide and I had our rifles ready, and had we been able to get a good look at the bear before it broke off the charge, we would've shot it.......I'm glad we didn't have to because it looked to be smaller (maybe a 2-3 year old cub that had been kicked out by mom?) So much for the bear spray.......

I recently read this article by Anthony Accerano (?) in Sports Afield regarding this very topic. Pretty good information in it......

http://sportsafield.com/grizzly-defense/

 

[sandman0921]

Speaking of bear charges......

I'm sure many have seen this video, but it still amazes me how fast it happens.....I'd say the quick thinking by the hunter prevented a very terrible incident.....

 

[JimP]

On the bear spray and having a bear lick it up after it has been deployed, they say not to spray it around thinking that it is a "bear repellent" like bug juice. It is only to be used when the bear is too near.

I believe that it was just this last week or so where some tourist in Glacier National Park had to be treated at a medical facility after they sprayed themselves with bear spray thinking that it was like bug repellent that they had to put on their bodies.

 

[sandman0921]

Jim you're right. I don't think his was the case with the guide's story per say, but I have definitely read about campers and hikers doing this thinking it would work like bug repellent.

I don't doubt the story about the Glacier Park tourist. People do some goofy things.....

 

[BRICKBURN]

Order this and read it.

 

[Opposite Pole]

I believe that it was just this last week or so where some tourist in Glacier National Park had to be treated at a medical facility after they sprayed themselves with bear spray thinking that it was like bug repellent that they had to put on their bodies.

I guess bears don't mind a bit of seasoning...

 

[Opposite Pole]

Order this and read it.

You wouldn't happen to know if there's a Kindle version?

 

[Opposite Pole]

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/performance-center-model-460xvr-1

I'm thinking about getting that one. 460S&W so can fire 454 Casull and .45 Colt as well. Although Glock 20 in 10mm is a tempting propositions due to much lower weight (about half). When I'm trekking in the mountains every bit of weights counts, especially at the end of day when incidentally I'm most likely to encounter a bear and need that gun. I could hand load the 10mm ammo to it's full spec. We only have brown bears in Poland and 800 pounds would be an absolute monster.

 

[Spooksar]

Order this and read it.
View attachment 190881

While your at order the 3 books by Gary Shelton, opposite view then Stephen. I've met both men and they both have a lot of knowledge of bears.

 

[ChrisG]

Handguns are terrible at stopping anything. Period. Unless you are a fantastic shot and can hit the CNS. A lot of bear guides carry semi auto 10mm's because they know they can shoot more than once with reasonable accuracy. The reality is... yes a .454 is a very powerful handgun and yes, if you can put one in the right spot it will work. The problem with handguns of that size is that people rarely shoot them well because of their tremendous recoil. (Akin to catching a full swung baseball bat in your hand). Also, recovery costs precious seconds when a bear is running you down. You'll be lucky if you even see them coming from more than 20 yards anyway. Some people who were killed were armed and their pistol never even cleared leather. This will be even tougher with a 12" revolver that weighs 3 lbs. The point is... every second counts and if your first round isn't too well placed, it would be fortunate if you got another chance. Big handguns reduce the likelyhood of that happening. Vote: Bear Spray.

Other forms have this question all the time "will (fill in any handgun here) stop a bear?" Then it is followed by a lot of ridiculous responses (i.e. "basically nothing will stop a brown bear except a 105mm howitzer to the eye socket.") with a precious few people who actually know what they are talking about filling in. Most keyboard commandos on the other forums have never even SEEN a bear, let alone had to face down a charge. I have never faced down a charge, and while I have never hunted brown bears, I have seen them up close (albeit behind a fence) and I have hunted and shot a lot of black bear... so take my opinion for what it is worth. Bears are not that heavily built for thier size. A large ungulate is much heavier boned and muscled in most cases. Pound for pound, a moose is a much heavier built animal that is harder to break down with a round. Notice I didn't say "kill" as that can be accomplished with fairly sedate rounds. The bear in my avatar barely provided the resistance for a .375 slug to expand and it plowed through almost stem to stern. Vote: Bear Spray

IF I HAD TO CARRY A GUN....because every store for 200 miles was out of bear spray, I would much rather have a 9mm, 10mm or .357 loaded with hard cast heavy weight bullets driven to high speed. They carry easier and since it is likely it will be carried 99.99999% of the time and used .00001% of the time. I would have a higher probability of firing more than once and I could practice with it a lot versus some hand cannon I can't shoot more than a couple times at the range because my hand is numb. Like was posted above, recently, a fishing guide killed a large brownie with a 9mm (a compact S&W 6906 if I recall correctly). Not saying it was premium but it worked. I believe it was loaded with buffalo bore hard cast bullets and I wouldn't be surprised if they went darn near through the bear. Still... Vote: Bear Spray

Now if you're Jerry Miculek and you can put 6 full power .44 mags into the sinuses in less that 4 seconds, then by all means!!! but I KNOW I shoot better with a smaller caliber and hitting what you're aiming at is the ONLY thing that will stop a bear. If a Brownie runs several dozen yards after being slammed through the vitals with 4,500 ft.lbs from a .416, I don't think you're going to knock the fight out of them with 1,200 from a single handgun round.
Just buy bear spray. It works way more effectively that anything short of the above mentioned 105 howitzer.

Sorry, Rant complete.

 

[CAustin]

357 will work fine for your defense if you are walking the woods with someone you don't much like. Just shoot that person in the kneecap and run. The bear will take care of the rest!

 

[Marty Weatherup]

I guess I'll offer a slightly dissenting opinion. In defending one's self against a bear attack bullet placement, bullet construction, penetration and shootability are of the highest importance.

I am acquainted with Phil Shoemaker. We get together once in a while for coffee and gun discussion. I recall he once outfitted his daughter with a 357 and Norma's excellent 180 grain FMJ ammo and was confident in her ability to land a good shot and the load's ability to penetrate to the vitals and break bone along the way. And they live in remote bear country.

While the 357 would not be my first choice I would not be afraid to go afield with one. I've no idea what it's like to purchase handguns in Poland but if you are limited to the one you have, I would stoke it with a heavy (180-200 grain) cast bullet. One of a very hard alloy, somewhere around 18+BHN or with some Corbon or Buffalo Bore ammo with 180-200 grain bullets or Norma 180 grain FMJs. I cast and reload so I would use my own 200 grain bullets over a healthy charge of 2400 or H110. I would also carry bear spray.

If you are buying a new handgun I would, if possible, try out several different handguns and rounds before you commit. The S&W 329 is a wonderful, light handgun but recoil is brisk with heavy loads. An S&W four inch 629 mountain gun in 44 magnum is a great, shootable option. Recoil will be noticeable but manageable with heavy loads. I've never fired the short 454s or 460s but know I do not care for the 454 recoil in the longer barreled guns I've fired.

 

[BRICKBURN]

You wouldn't happen to know if there's a Kindle version?

Apparently there is on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.ca/Bear-Attacks-Their-Causes-Avoidance/dp/B001MQ95UW

 

[Ryan]

Alaska Magazine had an article four or five years back about bear protection and boiled down the numbers. When it came to a pistol the 357 Mag was the most succesful for no other reason than more people can shoot it properly. You need something you can shoot accurately very quickly and probably more than once. Yes, a 44 mag would work better, but only if you spend the time to get good with it. I won't say you can't use a 50 S&W, but I've yet to meet anyone that carried one that I thought could really use it properly. Bear spray is a good idea and faired well in the article. I carry it on a regular basis up here in Alaska, though pray you aren't downwind, wow it will clear your sinus' fast. A 12 gauge with slugs is good too, but more cumbersome than most people can use aquock enough.
Whatever you use get a lot of practice with it, bears can and do show up out of nowhere and they can cover a lot of ground in an incredibly short time.

 

[1dirthawker]

hmmmm,

i live in alaska. i use a 44 mag or 45 colt. 300+ grain bullets. you can use a bigger handgun if you can shoot it well.

get a guides choice holster from dimond d leather works. best way to carry a large handgun.

i was recently at the scene of a bear mauling. the question i asked some LE personnel: what if the bear was up wind? would you spray it with bear spray? the answer is yes, hopefully, you would not end up worse off than the bear.

with a shoulder rig, your gun is on you, with a pack, wearing chest waders, taking a crap, fishing, etc. with a shot gun, it is leaning on something when you need it.

practice with it. you will be surprised how lousy of a shot you are at first. no worries, you will get better.

if you are carrying a gun for a bear, it better be .4o cal or better. my 2cents

 

[Mel3777]

Most of the time a female with cubs can be more unpredictable outcome with spray or handgun (unless hit in the face with with both) they tend to be more aggressive than males against the human. Handgun over 1,000 fps and 300gr + hardcast bullets. I've heard of a female coming back around after being hit with spray , so get out of the area completely afterwards.

 

[SETH RINGER]

Hi guys, 2 days ago while trekking through mountains in SE Poland (GOVERNMENT) I had a surprise meeting with a large (at least by local standards) boar Brown Bear. I reckon approximately 300kg-660lbs. It was in the middle of national park so I was unarmed as the whole park area is under complete protection though there is fantastic hunting outside of it. I had my wallet on me so all I could do was bribe the brute. Anyways, after some rather distressing displays of grumpiness - standing on its hind legs and roaring loudly the bear turned around and walked away. When standing on it's hind legs the bear absolutely towered over me and I'm 181cm tall. After we got over the shock, my wife and I all of the sudden were no longer tired despite having walked in the mountains for the last 8 hrs and quickly got out of there and got back to the lodge. After putting fresh underpants on I had a beer (appropriately name Ursa) and a think and decided to never ever under any circumstances find myself in such situation again. Now, I do these trips few times a year and unfortunately carrying a rifle is positively not an option, my question is - would a 357 Magnum revolver be a reasonable defence weapon against a bear? What ammunition would you use? I've no idea what the legal implications of me shooting a protected species in national park would be but I'd much rather face them than the claws. I have a 7 shot 2.5" 357 S&W which would be quite easy to carry. If any of you gentlemen have practical experience or reliable knowledge I will much appreciate your help.

PEPPER SPRAY IS PROBABLY A GOOD FIRST CHOICE WHEN THE GOVERNMENT AND LAWYERS ARE GOING TO BE INVOLVED. BUT I WOULD ALSO BE REAL QUICK TO GO TO PLAN B IF THAT FAILED AND MY LOVED ONES ARE INVOLVED. IF A WAS NOT GOING TO BUY ANOTHER PISTOL I WOULD USE BUFFALO BORE HEAVY 357 MAG OUTDOORSMAN.

 

[sandman0921]

Tough son of a gun.....