35 Whelen or 300 Win??

[HankBuck]

@Choupique
250s at 2,700 out of the Whelen. What's not to love
Bob

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen - I agree and while the .300 wm is a fine cartridge it does Nothing that a .30-06 won’t do…except a very marginal “less drop” that only starts being relevant After 300 yrds. For that couple of inches less drop you get 30% More Recoil than the ‘06 and gain only 6%-7% more velocity/power. I’m Not a Bench rest competition shooter and my rifle shooting ability is likely a “good-Average” compared to most on this forum. I am Not going to miss or lose an big game animal under 300 yrds because of 2”-3” bullet drop (I might screw up the shot with a rushed trigger squeeze, animal moves, etc..) . For me, any Animal that I’m not confident shooting with my ‘06 I would jump directly to a .375 H&H (or similar) because I want “both” a bigger hole and more power. However, any Hunter should shoot “What they are Confident & accurate with” and if that’s a .300 wm then that’s the most important thing.—-obviously my opinion, enough experienced Hunters on this Forum to decide for themselves.

 

[DG870]

Just double checked the OP. I have both a 300WM and a 35 Whelen. I took both rifles elk hunting last year hunting locally (sadly never had the opportunity to fire a shot). If I ever had the opportunity to hunt in Africa I would take the 300WM because the ammo would be easier to find if my ammo didn’t arrive with the gun. Both the 300WM and the 35 Whelen are fine cartridges and using good bullets, if properly placed, should be adequate to take plains game. I would guess the 35 Whelen ammo would be difficult to find in some locations.

 

[Deepfork]

Just double checked the OP. I have both a 300WM and a 35 Whelen. I took both rifles elk hunting last year hunting locally (sadly never had the opportunity to fire a shot). If I ever had the opportunity to hunt in Africa I would take the 300WM because the ammo would be easier to find if my ammo didn’t arrive with the gun. Both the 300WM and the 35 Whelen are fine cartridges and using good bullets, if properly placed, should be adequate to take plains game. I would guess the 35 Whelen ammo would be difficult to find in some locations.

Legit point about availability of ammo in Africa, .35 Whelen might be impossible to find. But for me its kind of a mute point because shooting my own loads no matter the caliber is as important to me as shooting my own rifle. If my ammo gets lost in route I'll just shoot a loaner rifle.

 

[BJH65]

I love both cartridges and both are excellent for plains game. If it were legal, the 35 Whelen with quality heavy bullets would perform the same as the 9.3x62 on DG. If you anticipate shots past 300 yards then the 300 Win Mag has the advantage. I have a soft spot in my heart for the 300 Win Mag. I have taken everything from springbok to eland, black bear, grizzly, deer, elk and wild pigs. Rarely has an animal required a second shot. My favorite bullets for the 300 Win Mag in this order:

1. 180 grain Winchester Fail Safe (discontinued, have hoarded 120 rounds)
2. 200 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw
3. 180 grain Nosler Partition
4. 180 grain Barnes TSX

 

[shootist~]

I get about 50fps more from the 338WM vs the 338-06AI with a 185gr Barns TTSX. Both of my AI rifles group better than the Magnums.

This is amazing.
What powder, barrel length, etc., for the 338-06 AI and what V would you expect for the 210 gr TTSX? (The 210 TTSX in a 338 WM @2,889 is my Nilgai load.)

Running the Chuck Hawks killing factor numbers for a 210 TTSX 338-06 at 2,700 fps, it beats a 180gr / 300WM by a good margin. A little more V and it's up to the 200 gr 300WM level (at least on paper).

The 338-06 has been on my radar lately. Less muzzle blast and recoil VS the WM would be a good thing.

 

[Deepfork]

This is amazing.
What powder, barrel length, etc., for the 338-06 AI and what V would you expect for the 210 gr TTSX? (The 210 TTSX in a 338 WM @2,889 is my Nilgai load.)

Running the Chuck Hawks killing factor numbers for a 210 TTSX 338-06 at 2,700 fps, it beats a 180gr / 300WM by a good margin. A little more V and it's up to the 200 gr 300WM level (at least on paper).

The 338-06 has been on my radar lately. Less muzzle blast and recoil VS the WM would be a good thing.

338-06AI is a Win Mod 70 with a 22inch proof barrel, twist rate is 1/9.4.

185gr Barnes TTSX goes 3089fps using A2520.
186gr Hammer Stone Hammer goes 3127 using A2520.

Not sure about the 210gr Barnes. I have worked up a 213gr Hammer bullet for the 338-06AI. Getting 2900 fps with 2000MR.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

I haven’t taken either rifle to Africa so it would be a maiden voyage for whichever one I take. I will already be taking a 404Jeffery for buffalo and elephant so I don’t really want to take 3 rifles. As far as distance, I try to keep shots under 300 yards if at all possible. Appreciate the input y’all, keep it coming.

Without a doubt, take the 35 Whelen. That extra frontal area of the bullet does make a difference. I've used 35 caliber bullets in Namibia with excellent results and in 3 weeks will do so again. Enjoy your hunt.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

This is amazing.
What powder, barrel length, etc., for the 338-06 AI and what V would you expect for the 210 gr TTSX? (The 210 TTSX in a 338 WM @2,889 is my Nilgai load.)

Running the Chuck Hawks killing factor numbers for a 210 TTSX 338-06 at 2,700 fps, it beats a 180gr / 300WM by a good margin. A little more V and it's up to the 200 gr 300WM level (at least on paper).

The 338-06 has been on my radar lately. Less muzzle blast and recoil VS the WM would be a good thing.

the 338-06 is a great choice! I tend to use heavier bullets and a 230grn Oryx at 2640fps yields just under 3700fpe! Everything I harvested in Namibia last year was DRT. A good friend uses a 338-06 also and took a 9ft + Alaskan bear. The bullet penetrated over 5ft of bear and he only went 30 yards before expiring.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

This is amazing.
What powder, barrel length, etc., for the 338-06 AI and what V would you expect for the 210 gr TTSX? (The 210 TTSX in a 338 WM @2,889 is my Nilgai load.)

Running the Chuck Hawks killing factor numbers for a 210 TTSX 338-06 at 2,700 fps, it beats a 180gr / 300WM by a good margin. A little more V and it's up to the 200 gr 300WM level (at least on paper).

The 338-06 has been on my radar lately. Less muzzle blast and recoil VS the WM would be a good thing.

Almost forgot. 22in barrel on a commercial FN Mauser action. In my rifle, W760 has given the best results in accuracy and velocity.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Cool, so no need to change from a win mag to a Whelen.

@CBH Australia
I can give you plenty of reasons Chris. How much time have you got, it could be a long conversation.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I respect Bob, he's definitely a guy who challenges ingrained stereotypes with hard facts.

With that being said, however, the whelen can only do 2700fps by burning more powder than you would think, 64gr for CFE 223 and 66gr for Alliant 2000MR

For me, for a couple of more grains, you can send a 375 H&H 270-grain bullet(similar section density to the 250gr) at 2700fps for 70grains of reloader 15 or a 300-grain TSX bullet at 2550fps for 70grs Varget, which is dangerous game legal due to calibre restrictions.

If I had the option to buy both, I would pick 375H&H over the 35 Whelen, only because it's African legal if I didn't have the option, I would pick the 35 Whelen, which is a great design.

If you already have a 375 H&H I would pick the 300 Win mag over the 35 Whelen due to unnecessary redundancies.

@Tug
It's a pity the Whelen isn't DG legal ( it is in some regions). I would happily take on any buffalo that walks with the Whelen loaded with 310gn bullets at 2,455fps. That give the 4,000fpe of energy needed with a bullet of over .300sd with plenty of penetration.
Would I take on elephant. No. But if I had no options I would . The 350 Rigby was used on the but it's not the best deal on the table.
Bob

 

[Dryan]

I’ve just returned from a safari in Namibia, used a camp 300winmag as did the other two chaps on safari.

I shot blue wilderbeest at 250 or so yards and the calibre did the job beautifully, another chap shot a magnificent trophy bull again with 300 win mag. We were definitely not undergunned (using 180gr bullets).

We visited a couple of gun shops in Windhoek and were surprised how well stocked they were, I would personally buy ammo there over the phone before flying so you know it’s there to collect.

https://www.outdoorcentre.com.na/ Was the best gunshot we found and super helpful, perhaps send them an email/call.

 

[Cohle]

35 Whelen will shoot 300gr and 310gr bullets at around 2500fps. 300 Win can't even come close for momentum and penetration on DG at short range. Taylor Knockout Value of 39.6 vs 27.1. ME 4301 vs 3821. While the 300 Win is no slouch, it has nowhere near the short range capability on dangerous game that the 35 Whelen has.

This sounds ridiculously optimistic. It’s got the same powder capacity as a 30-06. Is there some new magic gun powder? If so then the .300 Winchester can do 3,200 with 200 grain bullets and the .338 can get 3100 with the 250.
I apologize if there actually is some incredible development but color me skeptical.

 

[Andrew62]

I realize the chance of this happening isn’t very likely, but if you would arrive to Africa and your ammo went missing along the way, which caliber would be easiest to source ammo for?

 

[BFaucett]

I realize the chance of this happening isn’t very likely, but if you would arrive to Africa and your ammo went missing along the way, which caliber would be easiest to source ammo for?

Heck, if it were me, I'd just take both rifles. I'd imagine that 300 WM ammo could be located if needed. I took two rifles on my last trip way back in 2005 (South Africa). Rem 700 Classic in 8x57JS and CZ 550 American in 9.3x62.

I primarily used my 9.3x62 but I used the 8x57 on some Impala and Warthog culls The land owner let me do a little culling for him. (This was my third tip with them so they knew me.) No charge per animal. Two Impala and two Warthogs. Of course, I was accompanied by my PH. It was fun getting to use both rifles on that trip.

Just my ramblings... Cheers! Bob F.

Warthog cull. Rem 700 Classic 8x57JS. Handload: 220 gr Woodleigh RN at 2400 fps.

 

[CBH Australia]

Heck, if it were me, I'd just take both rifles. I'd imagine that 300 WM ammo could be located if needed. I took two rifles on my last trip way back in 2005 (South Africa). Rem 700 Classic in 8x57JS and CZ 550 American in 9.3x62.

I primarily used my 9.3x62 but I used the 8x57 on some Impala and Warthog culls The land owner let me do a little culling for him. (This was my third tip with them so they knew me.) No charge per animal. Two Impala and two Warthogs. Of course, I was accompanied by my PH. It was fun getting to use both rifles on that trip.

Just my ramblings... Cheers! Bob F.


View attachment 684979
Warthog cull. Rem 700 Classic 8x57JS. Handload: 220 gr Woodleigh RN at 2400 fps.

Warthogs are cool.

 

[CBH Australia]

This sounds ridiculously optimistic. It’s got the same powder capacity as a 30-06. Is there some new magic gun powder? If so then the .300 Winchester can do 3,200 with 200 grain bullets and the .338 can get 3100 with the 250.
I apologize if there actually is some incredible development but color me skeptical.

No, you just need to load to “Full potential” ask Bob.

 

[baxterb]

the 338-06 is a great choice! I tend to use heavier bullets and a 230grn Oryx at 2640fps yields just under 3700fpe! Everything I harvested in Namibia last year was DRT. A good friend uses a 338-06 also and took a 9ft + Alaskan bear. The bullet penetrated over 5ft of bear and he only went 30 yards before expiring.

The 338-06 is .008" away from a 318 Westley Richards. Harry Selby told me the most penetration he had ever seen was from a 318 WR into a black rhino where the throat met the chest and it exited the right hip. Lots of SD for some good old fashioned penetration...

 

[CoElkHunter]

This sounds ridiculously optimistic. It’s got the same powder capacity as a 30-06. Is there some new magic gun powder? If so then the .300 Winchester can do 3,200 with 200 grain bullets and the .338 can get 3100 with the 250.
I apologize if there actually is some incredible development but color me skeptical.

Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen gets astronomical velocities out of his .35 Whelen using his own proprietary powders. As a new member, if you stick around here long enough and read EVERYTHING .35 Whelen threads/posts, you’ll see. LOL

 

[CoElkHunter]

The 338-06 is .008" away from a 318 Westley Richards. Harry Selby told me the most penetration he had ever seen was from a 318 WR into a black rhino where the throat met the chest and it exited the right hip. Lots of SD for some good old fashioned penetration...

Only because Harry didn’t have a .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM. LOL