35 Whelen First Blood 220 Hammer

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Exit in hide View attachment 433376with the 220 Hammer bullet

Just under hide

View attachment 433378

@jwp475
Holly shit what a mess. Bone doesn't seem to slow it down

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

How many ribs did it break on the way out?.

almost looks like too much of a good thing. wow.

@baxterb
No such thing as too much of a,good thing.
Just standard performance for the Whelen for those that are willing to liad it to its potential.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Nice, effective.
I'm reading a lot on Hammers and ordered some through the Aussie contact

Rick,
I think there is a HammerTime forum.

Members of a long-range hunting forum I read are true believers of these Hammer Projectiles.

There are different types, it seems the HH, Hammer Hunter are easy to get Shooting in anyrifle.
Many members there also like to crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp dies

The Absolute Hammer have a reduced dia on the Ogive so the bullet going down the bore is only contacting on the body that has driving bands cut in to reduce friction.

Less friction , incrrased velocity for compatible weight. The shortfall is they might be finicky in load tuning.

Sorry to hijack the thread but that's a condensed version of hours of reading these bloody forums.

@CBH Australia
Before you order any hammers mate have a look at Atomic 29 projectiles on face book. They are awesome and made in Australia. John Dunn and Ted Mitchell love them. To top it off Cameron is a great bloke to talk to about his product
Bob

 

[jwp475]

@CBH Australia
Before you order any hammers mate have a look at Atomic 29 projectiles on face book. They are awesome and made in Australia. John Dunn and Ted Mitchell love them. To top it off Cameron is a great bloke to talk to about his product
Bob

I'd love to get some Atomic 29's. With name like that they have to be excellent

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I shoot sitka blacktail deer with my Whelen. 225 Accubond. Can eat right up to the hole. That looks like a hit from a 243 and a varmint bullet. Damn.

@gbflyer
Hit a field mouse in the same position with a 243 varmit bullet and it may look like it, but anything bigger than said field mouse and it would be sill walking around like it was a scratch.
One should never mention those 3 numbers in the same sentence as the Whelen

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'd love to get some Atomic 29's. With name like that they have to be excellent

@jwp475
PM me and we will talk
Bob

The Atomic 29 is 2nd from the left. Google them and look at their face book page. Very enlightening
Bob

 

[michael458]

From what I gathered their bullets act a bit like CEB's Raptors in that they have blades that come off causing other sorts of havoc and the shank plows thru like a solid. I would not have expected the offside to look like this in that scenario.

Phil..... from what I understand about the Hammers it is the same as what you state..... in reality, there is only a few ways any of these CNC machined bullets can work.... #1.... like the Raptors, where they are designed to shear just inside the medium 1.5-2 inches, this is not quite as easy as it sounds, some tweaking and test work must be done to get this to work properly. #2.... where the copper is annealed and the blades are no longer blades, but petals that peel back, like the Barnes TSX. #3.... complete failure of such a bullet that does not shear evenly, or does not peel back evenly becoming unstable and more like a spitzer solid with no stability, these are the ones that have not been fully vetted................

Of course the brass has to be tweaked as well, to get the cavity the right size in any given caliber to make shear consistent/even and reliable. To the best of my knowledge brass being brittle it will not peel like the more malleable copper does when annealed properly........

Copper blades tend to stay closer to center in many cases, which is not a negative, they expend a lot of their destruction inside the wound channel...... in other cases where the copper has been manipulated you can get them to radiate from center like the brass raptors do.

Sounds like the Hammers have been tested, and tweaked to work properly from what I have seen.

As for the destruction, on some thin skinned animals and working at higher velocity you will see this on occasion even with raptors....... I have ripped the hell out of some smaller thin skinned animals with some big bore raptors......

Good Stuff JWP...........

 

[CBH Australia]

Phil..... from what I understand about the Hammers it is the same as what you state..... in reality, there is only a few ways any of these CNC machined bullets can work.... #1.... like the Raptors, where they are designed to shear just inside the medium 1.5-2 inches, this is not quite as easy as it sounds, some tweaking and test work must be done to get this to work properly. #2.... where the copper is annealed and the blades are no longer blades, but petals that peel back, like the Barnes TSX. #3.... complete failure of such a bullet that does not shear evenly, or does not peel back evenly becoming unstable and more like a spitzer solid with no stability, these are the ones that have not been fully vetted................

Of course the brass has to be tweaked as well, to get the cavity the right size in any given caliber to make shear consistent/even and reliable. To the best of my knowledge brass being brittle it will not peel like the more malleable copper does when annealed properly........

Copper blades tend to stay closer to center in many cases, which is not a negative, they expend a lot of their destruction inside the wound channel...... in other cases where the copper has been manipulated you can get them to radiate from center like the brass raptors do.

Sounds like the Hammers have been tested, and tweaked to work properly from what I have seen.

As for the destruction, on some thin skinned animals and working at higher velocity you will see this on occasion even with raptors....... I have ripped the hell out of some smaller thin skinned animals with some big bore raptors......

Good Stuff JWP...........

Interesting stuff.
What I have read on Hammers is that they have done extensive testing.
They do quality control on the brass stock they buy.
They have replaced and then tested bullets a client deemed wasn't working.

They have various terms Hammer Hunter, Absolute and I thought it was sledge hammer? And Claw Hammer.

I think one version has a larger hollow point cavity.
So 2 bullets with the same profile have a slight variation in weight, one being less.

I hope I'm not confusing this.

Short version is Hammer Hunter seem to be fine straight off, in theory. Mine arrived today.

Gonna Google Atomic 29 and see about outer edge, I used one pack of 100 no complaints.

 

[michael458]

Interesting stuff.
What I have read on Hammers is that they have done extensive testing.

I believe that to be true, while I have not studied the Hammer bullets extensively, just brief, I think they know what it takes to make things work, mostly from testing as it has to be........

Believe me, I know about testing, I know about having to tweak things to make it work the way it is supposed to work. Testing here was several days a week for a few years, because of so many calibers being done. Back in the early days of this type of Bullet Tech, which was only thought about in 2007-2009, no one knew exactly what was going on with the terminals, how it worked, why it worked and how to tweak it to make it work. Hell, we didn't even know then exactly what the right way was! From our conventional bullet wisdom, a bullet that shed weight, lost its "PETALS", was surely a failure? Right? But over and over, I kept seeing these "Failures" out performing all the Conventionals? There was more Trauma? Penetration of the remaining bullet was DEEPER? Everything we "Thought" we knew, we found out we didn't know Crap! LOL.........

Only through extensive test work, over and over and over again, did we learn or think we learned exactly what was happening during Terminals. Then we took it to the field, and we studied it extensively in the field, and here we saw exactly the same type of behavior we saw in the test work, the shear, the star pattern in animal tissue, the ripping effects of the blades as they penetrated with the center bullet, the extreme penetration of the remaining center bullet and how it worked, between the test work done in medium and later the field work studied, we began to learn how these type bullets worked. In the early days, we called them "Non-Cons" and or Non-Conventional, since nothing about them worked in a conventional manner, such as our excellent expanding mushroom type bullets, Swift, Woodleigh and what have you........

This type of bullet tech is absolutely deadly. Once the correct formula is figured out on a particular type bullet, that CNC machine keeps on turning them out, one the same as the other and over and over. In the case of the Brass Raptors, they are much easier to work with because brass is more brittle than copper and once you have the cavity the right size, then you get perfect shear of blades time and time again........ Copper can be done the same way, just takes a little more manipulation.
Today all of the brass Raptors work exactly the same, from .224 caliber all the way to .620 caliber. I have tested most all of them at one time or another, with some exceptions being those small mid calibers. From 308 up I have worked with most of them, and of course all the larger bores. Most of the large bores were tested here, and cavities tweaked from this test work.

I have worked mostly with CEB and North Fork....... in the last few years I have been testing some of the newer Lehighs, in the beginning I was working exclusively with Lehigh, through JD, but at that time they didn't have much interest in me, so I found someone that was interested. I will say that Lehigh has done an extremely good job in their test work the last few years, and have some really good bullets, what they call "Fracturing" and "Chaos", and other various names, work exactly like the Raptors. But the bullet that Lehigh has that interests me the most is the Extreme Penetrators. I am very taken with those.

The point being, with our NEW BULLET TECH, make sure the new guys are doing their due diligence with the test work, tweaking and so forth, to get it right. I believe Hammer has done this, and now producing a fine product that does what it says it will do........

A closer to home example of a fellow doing the research contacted me right here on this forum. He found out who I was, and asked if I would help. I agreed, and he sent some of his prototypes to me. One of the big problems he had was "low velocity" shear...... he needed his bullet to work at or at least down to 1800 fps impacts.

The first batch this young man sent I tested in January this year. They were 152 gr .308 caliber bullets. I tested at 300 Win Mag velocity and the bullets worked fantastic, just as they were designed to work........

I had a very limited supply of bullets, a small handful, so I went to 300 BLK to target 1700-1800 fps impact velocity, I was close, but more like 1600 fps and the bullet did not work at that impact velocity......

I sent my report in, and the young man was pleased with the results, not so happy at the low velocity test, but went back to the drawing board and did some design changes to allow his bullet to perform better at low velocity.........

He sent just enough bullets with the NEW DESIGN CHANGES that I was able to do 4 tests, presented below.........Take note that this was July 2021.......

Our guy took the time to work with the test work, make some design changes, and now his bullet works perfectly at least down to 1650 fps impact velocity. I suspect as good as it worked at this velocity, that it will go much lower than that as well.

My point is to show that if these guys do a good job and test their products, give it a good workout, then they will give us, shooters/hunters a product that works, and will work every single time......

Testing these bullets before going out is a vital key to success....... So vet the manufacturer before buying and see that they have done their due first. Something the BIG GUYS don't always accomplish.......... So I hope to see the little guys put some heat on them in the area of performance.

That's my story for the day....... Enjoy your day, wherever you might be.........

 

[jwp475]

I believe that to be true, while I have not studied the Hammer bullets extensively, just brief, I think they know what it takes to make things work, mostly from testing as it has to be........

Believe me, I know about testing, I know about having to tweak things to make it work the way it is supposed to work. Testing here was several days a week for a few years, because of so many calibers being done. Back in the early days of this type of Bullet Tech, which was only thought about in 2007-2009, no one knew exactly what was going on with the terminals, how it worked, why it worked and how to tweak it to make it work. Hell, we didn't even know then exactly what the right way was! From our conventional bullet wisdom, a bullet that shed weight, lost its "PETALS", was surely a failure? Right? But over and over, I kept seeing these "Failures" out performing all the Conventionals? There was more Trauma? Penetration of the remaining bullet was DEEPER? Everything we "Thought" we knew, we found out we didn't know Crap! LOL.........

Only through extensive test work, over and over and over again, did we learn or think we learned exactly what was happening during Terminals. Then we took it to the field, and we studied it extensively in the field, and here we saw exactly the same type of behavior we saw in the test work, the shear, the star pattern in animal tissue, the ripping effects of the blades as they penetrated with the center bullet, the extreme penetration of the remaining center bullet and how it worked, between the test work done in medium and later the field work studied, we began to learn how these type bullets worked. In the early days, we called them "Non-Cons" and or Non-Conventional, since nothing about them worked in a conventional manner, such as our excellent expanding mushroom type bullets, Swift, Woodleigh and what have you........

This type of bullet tech is absolutely deadly. Once the correct formula is figured out on a particular type bullet, that CNC machine keeps on turning them out, one the same as the other and over and over. In the case of the Brass Raptors, they are much easier to work with because brass is more brittle than copper and once you have the cavity the right size, then you get perfect shear of blades time and time again........ Copper can be done the same way, just takes a little more manipulation.
Today all of the brass Raptors work exactly the same, from .224 caliber all the way to .620 caliber. I have tested most all of them at one time or another, with some exceptions being those small mid calibers. From 308 up I have worked with most of them, and of course all the larger bores. Most of the large bores were tested here, and cavities tweaked from this test work.

I have worked mostly with CEB and North Fork....... in the last few years I have been testing some of the newer Lehighs, in the beginning I was working exclusively with Lehigh, through JD, but at that time they didn't have much interest in me, so I found someone that was interested. I will say that Lehigh has done an extremely good job in their test work the last few years, and have some really good bullets, what they call "Fracturing" and "Chaos", and other various names, work exactly like the Raptors. But the bullet that Lehigh has that interests me the most is the Extreme Penetrators. I am very taken with those.

The point being, with our NEW BULLET TECH, make sure the new guys are doing their due diligence with the test work, tweaking and so forth, to get it right. I believe Hammer has done this, and now producing a fine product that does what it says it will do........

A closer to home example of a fellow doing the research contacted me right here on this forum. He found out who I was, and asked if I would help. I agreed, and he sent some of his prototypes to me. One of the big problems he had was "low velocity" shear...... he needed his bullet to work at or at least down to 1800 fps impacts.

The first batch this young man sent I tested in January this year. They were 152 gr .308 caliber bullets. I tested at 300 Win Mag velocity and the bullets worked fantastic, just as they were designed to work........

View attachment 433532


I had a very limited supply of bullets, a small handful, so I went to 300 BLK to target 1700-1800 fps impact velocity, I was close, but more like 1600 fps and the bullet did not work at that impact velocity......

View attachment 433533

I sent my report in, and the young man was pleased with the results, not so happy at the low velocity test, but went back to the drawing board and did some design changes to allow his bullet to perform better at low velocity.........

He sent just enough bullets with the NEW DESIGN CHANGES that I was able to do 4 tests, presented below.........Take note that this was July 2021.......

View attachment 433534View attachment 433535View attachment 433536View attachment 433537

Our guy took the time to work with the test work, make some design changes, and now his bullet works perfectly at least down to 1650 fps impact velocity. I suspect as good as it worked at this velocity, that it will go much lower than that as well.

My point is to show that if these guys do a good job and test their products, give it a good workout, then they will give us, shooters/hunters a product that works, and will work every single time......

Testing these bullets before going out is a vital key to success....... So vet the manufacturer before buying and see that they have done their due first. Something the BIG GUYS don't always accomplish.......... So I hope to see the little guys put some heat on them in the area of performance.

That's my story for the day....... Enjoy your day, wherever you might be.........

Shot from a 300 win with impact at distance velocity down to say 1400 FPS they will most likely still work because of the higher runs of the bullet.

 

[YancyW]

Hammer hunter bullets are excellent bullets, they aren't the easiest to load sometimes, but when you get them set, they are great.

 

[TNDave]

I’ve used hammers and my results were mixed. Looked at the Atomic 29 bullets but they are not available in the US but I’m intrigued to say the least. For monolithics another couple of choices are the peregrines and badlands which mushroom instead of shearing the petals. My best and favorite performers in the Whelen are the Northforks and they are just now coming back available here in the states, I’ve been holding on to a couple of boxes for a while now.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

I just started shooting them a couple weeks ago and will not take any game till Dec. but I have never had a bullet that I worked up a load with in only 7 shots was shooting the .308 152gr Hammer Hunter and was looking for 3000 out of my 30.06 and settled on 46.5 gr of H4350 fed 210 Primer. load worked out to 2964 no pressure noticed and produced a 3 shot group of .400 at 125 yards and that was with me pulling the 3rd shot. I think these are great bullets so far the best I have ever worked with and in April I will give them a good work out when I go to So Africa on a trip that they put together every year for 7 days. good shooting

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I’ve used hammers and my results were mixed. Looked at the Atomic 29 bullets but they are not available in the US but I’m intrigued to say the least. For monolithics another couple of choices are the peregrines and badlands which mushroom instead of shearing the petals. My best and favorite performers in the Whelen are the Northforks and they are just now coming back available here in the states, I’ve been holding on to a couple of boxes for a while now.

@TNDave
My mate Ted Mitchell has used atomic 29 220gn 35 c on everything from buffalo to dingoes and they worked extremely well for him
Bob

 

[gprippers]

Not sure they are even remotely needed? When Im putting an animal down thats going in my freezer im trying to prevent waste and "shearing blades" or "shearing petals" or what ever you want to call them are going to create much more needless damage and meat loss. MILLIONS and MILLIONS of animals of all sizes have been taken down with the more "typical" bullet designs without issue so not sure of the REAL WORLD NEED for shearing blades in a hunting bullet? Maybe...just maybe for DG WHEN/IF they can be proven to have real world performance that actually kills with greater efficiency? But how much more dead, does dead need to be when we have bullets that are doing the job with great effectiveness and with less damage? What about cost? Are they really worth the price difference if they are more expensive comparably?

Obviously we are always looking for the next bigger and better so i get it...to a point...but i think a lot of people are just bored or are always looking for the next big thing. Just my opinion and im sure there are lots of different opinions on the subject and in the end...do what makes you happy! LOL!

 

[Areaonereal]

I shot The Hammer Hunters in 30 06 at 2760 FPS in Namibia Management hunt in August. I am sure they have a place in wide array of available bullets for most hunters. I am not one of them.

 

[jwp475]

I shot The Hammer Hunters in 30 06 at 2760 FPS in Namibia Management hunt in August. I am sure they have a place in wide array of available bullets for most hunters. I am not one of them.

Did you have a bad experience with them?

 

[gbflyer]

While I have no experience with them on game, I can say that my .338 Federal likes the 186gr Shock Hammer on paper. The first three rounds, with a 1gr increase per round (looking for pressure), cut a clover leaf at 100 yards. The rifle is not particularly remarkable, with the factory Federal Fusion 200gr being the best I have found so far at around 1.25 MOA for 5 shots.