338-06

[jnmullins]

The RCBS dies from midway are a great deal. I picked up a set of them and necking 30-06 up to 338 is very easy using Imperial Sizing Wax.

225gr is probably the most efficient in the 338-06, but I will start off using 250gr Speer Grand Slams or 250gr round nose Hornady for most hunting, especially since the round noses make the 338-06 very similar to 318 WR.

 

[fourfive8]

Oh, almost forgot, 210 TSX BT Barnes, out of same rifle, Varget powder at about 2550 muzzle vel is about equal in accuracy and yields almost identical results to the 225 TSX FB on the same game animals to same distances of about 275 or less.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Not trying to hijack the man's threat by any means but I'm in the same fence between the 338-06 and 35 Whelen. All I'll be doing is swapping the barrel on my Savage 30-06 so either is fairly easy. Which way did you do and why if you don't mind? I do already have a 338WM in thinking the 35 would be s great midrange cartridge since most of mine are, too me, longer range.

@Axle2010
The 35 Whelen ain't no mid range cartridge. Loaded with 225gn accubonds at up to 2,900fps puts it into the 400yrds plus range
A 225gn TTSX a 2,800fps will give you penetration plus range.
If you want bone smashing power and penetration a 310gn at 2,300fps will give you that. After all the 9.3x62 built it's reputation for deep penetration with 320gn at 2,250fps. The Whelen can cover all the bases.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thanks that's pretty much what I've been thinking except for the good deal. In looking at the 35 for a medium/short range rifle, my 308 and 3030 are the closest I have right now and neither are quite as heavy as is like.

@Axle2010
If your Savage is a short action there's no flies on the little power house 358 Winchester. It can be loaded to almost equal Remingtons anaemic factory whelen loads.
A lot of grunt in a little round. If you only want mid range a 225gn Sierra GKBT, 225gn Woodleigh PPSP or round nose or even the humble 250gr Hornady round nose.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have not started working up loads for the 338-06 yet, have been studying all of the reloading data I can find though.

At this point I can't see the 338-06 being quite as efficient as the 35 Whelen. I just went through my notes on my .35 Whelen loads. Over the last 6 months I have loaded the .35 Whelen using 17 different powders, 9 different bullets and well over 100 different powder/bullet combos. Only about a dozen loads made it to long range accuracy testing

At the end of the day I did not really end up where I thought I would be with the Whelen. My very best loads were 250gr bullets with Alliant 2000-MR.

65.1gr 2000-MR and 250gr Speer Hot-Cor 2684 fps .65 average
66.0gr 2000-MR and 250gr Norma Oryx 2659 fps fps .80 average

There is lots of info around about CFE223 and .35 Whelen loads. I made a point to compare CFE223 and 2000-MR and the 2000-MR loads almost always outperformed the CFE223 loads for me.

Pushing 2700 with a 250gr pill is serious business in my book. I am only getting 60-70fps more from my .338WM 250gr loads.

Some of you with extensive experience with the 338-06, what is the "sweet spot" for that caliber? As I said above in the .35 Whelen I think its the 250gr bullets.

@Deepfork

Ain't no flies on the Whelen mate.
This is an 11 shot group at 100yds.
The shot near the bullseye is a 310gn Woodleigh at 2,455fps.
The atherosclerosis 10 are with projectiles ranging from 200gn ftx to 275gn Woodleigh PPSP. Also in the group are 225gn and 250gn round nose and 225gn boat tails and flat bases.
The group was a tad over 2" and the barrel wasn't allowed to cool betwixt shots, just fired all 11 shots one after the other. The barrel was rather hot at the end but didn't affect the group or pii from a cold barrel.
Got to love accurate guns.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

As to cartridge efficiency? Defining that is like catching a puff of smoke. My 338-06 is a CRF Win 70 with 10” twist Krieger barrel and standard chamber. My favorite hunting load is 225 gr Barnes TSX FB and Varget powder to right at 2500 muzzle vel. It is accurate and “efficiently” kills oryx, kudu, wildebeest out to about 275 yards as best I can tell…

@fourfive8
My Whelen with a 1:12 twist barrel does just under 2,900 fps with a 220gn Atomic 29 ( Australian version of the Barnes) and only 80 bucks Aud compared to 150 bucks for the Barnes. It also kills game very efficiently.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The RCBS dies from midway are a great deal. I picked up a set of them and necking 30-06 up to 338 is very easy using Imperial Sizing Wax.

225gr is probably the most efficient in the 338-06, but I will start off using 250gr Speer Grand Slams or 250gr round nose Hornady for most hunting, especially since the round noses make the 338-06 very similar to 318 WR.

@jnmullins
The problem I see with 338 cal projectiles is most are made to withstand magnum velocities.
In the slower 338-06 they may not expand well at longer ranges.
Even woodliegh makes 338 projectiles specifically for the 338-06 and 338 federal that allow for the lower velocities
The 35 cals have no such issues .
Bob

 

[Daniel Cary]

out of stock, however. neat resource.

.338-06 A-Square, P/L, 225 grain SST, 1 Cartridge not a Box! - Ammo-One1

.338-06 A-Square ammo ammunition for sale 225 grain Hornady SST One Single Cartridge

www.ammo-one1.com

 

[jnmullins]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen Thanks for the heads up about the 338 projectile toughness. Most of my shot are pretty short (200 yards or less) and I have magnums if I need to shoot longer. I will wait for the Woodleigh 338 bullets and use those for hunting loads.

I also have a 35 Whelen AI that I tried CFE223 in based on your recommendation - 2660 fps with Speer 250s and very nice accuracy. I am also taking a barrel and pre-64 Model 70 action to my gunsmith next week to have him build me a 358 Win. I may have a thing for medium bores.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

be sure and do your homework, though. I've long forgotten, but I believe there's a little bit more to it than opening up the case mouth.

Seems you are new here. Welcome.

In for a penny, in for a pound. If you're going to go the 338-06 A Square route, might as well take it 1 step further and do the 338-06 Ackley Improved. From what I recall when i was researching this stuff years ago, AI will let you do stuff like push a 200 gr bullet to the same velocity as an A Square firing a 180 gr bullet. Heavier and longer is almost always better. Wouldn't even be a barrel swap, you'd just need the throat reamed a little more to accommodate the AI's shoulder

Hello Zim. The only thing a person need do is run 30-06 brass into the 338-06 sizing die. neck length and shoulder is the same. I use either virgin brass or anneal once fired brass. Super easy. I'll be back in Namibia in late May and that's the caliber I'm taking. Handloaded 230grn Norma Oryx bullets at 2600fps. Couldn't get A-Frames at this time.

 

[Deepfork]

@Deepfork
View attachment 573051
Ain't no flies on the Whelen mate.
This is an 11 shot group at 100yds.
The shot near the bullseye is a 310gn Woodleigh at 2,455fps.
The atherosclerosis 10 are with projectiles ranging from 200gn ftx to 275gn Woodleigh PPSP. Also in the group are 225gn and 250gn round nose and 225gn boat tails and flat bases.
The group was a tad over 2" and the barrel wasn't allowed to cool betwixt shots, just fired all 11 shots one after the other. The barrel was rather hot at the end but didn't affect the group or pii from a cold barrel.
Got to love accurate guns.
Bob

I'm very happy with my 35 Whelen loads. All I meant when I said I did not end up where I thought I would be was I didn't expect to end up with the 250 grainers being the sweet spot for me. Pushing 2700 with great accuracy with a 250gn bullet is great. I did not do as well with 225gn bullets. Could not get close to the 2900 fps you are getting. And my near max 225gn loads were not as accurate as my 250gn loads.

 

[Axle2010]

@Axle2010
If your Savage is a short action there's no flies on the little power house 358 Winchester. It can be loaded to almost equal Remingtons anaemic factory whelen loads.
A lot of grunt in a little round. If you only want mid range a 225gn Sierra GKBT, 225gn Woodleigh PPSP or round nose or even the humble 250gr Hornady round nose.
Bob

No sir it's currently a 30-06 so standard action. I don't really care for short actions much except for the 308 and a couple of fast 22's.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen Thanks for the heads up about the 338 projectile toughness. Most of my shot are pretty short (200 yards or less) and I have magnums if I need to shoot longer. I will wait for the Woodleigh 338 bullets and use those for hunting loads.

I also have a 35 Whelen AI that I tried CFE223 in based on your recommendation - 2660 fps with Speer 250s and very nice accuracy. I am also taking a barrel and pre-64 Model 70 action to my gunsmith next week to have him build me a 358 Win. I may have a thing for medium bores.

@jnmullins
Can't go wrong with a 35 cal.
Hek even @Rick HOlbert to a Browning but 358 to Africa and every thing he shot fell down and not from laughter. Paco Kelly has an interesting write up on the 358 and loads for it.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm very happy with my 35 Whelen loads. All I meant when I said I did not end up where I thought I would be was I didn't expect to end up with the 250 grainers being the sweet spot for me. Pushing 2700 with great accuracy with a 250gn bullet is great. I did not do as well with 225gn bullets. Could not get close to the 2900 fps you are getting. And my near max 225gn loads were not as accurate as my 250gn loads.

@Deepfork
My most accurate load was the old 250gr Hornady round nose @2,680fps. Cut clover leafs at 100yds with half inch 3 shot groups.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hello Zim. The only thing a person need do is run 30-06 brass into the 338-06 sizing die. neck length and shoulder is the same. I use either virgin brass or anneal once fired brass. Super easy. I'll be back in Namibia in late May and that's the caliber I'm taking. Handloaded 230grn Norma Oryx bullets at 2600fps. Couldn't get A-Frames at this time.

@Rick HOlbert
So the 338-06 isn't doing much more than your little 358 then and NOWHERE near the Whelen
To me I can't see the point in it.
The 338-06 appears to be the 243 of medium bores not really much use when you have a 35 even a 358.
HA HA HA HA HA HA
Bob

 

[RLL]

@jnmullins
The problem I see with 338 cal projectiles is most are made to withstand magnum velocities.
In the slower 338-06 they may not expand well at longer ranges.
Even woodliegh makes 338 projectiles specifically for the 338-06 and 338 federal that allow for the lower velocities
The 35 cals have no such issues .
Bob

No issues with nosler partions, speer hot cores, raptors, Horrnady interlocks and a few others expanding reliabliaby at lower velocities…

 

[fourfive8]

For big game, I'd rather shoot a bullet that is slightly too tough than shoot the same game with a bullet that is slightly too frangible. Plus, I don't think having so many options for 338 bullets could be considered a problem

 

[Deepfork]

My gunsmith called me today about my 338-06 A-square build. He told me he also had a chamber reamer for 338-06 AI. I told him I already bought a set of A-Square dies. He told me he would throw in the AI die set if I wanted to go that route.

Soooo I guess I will be fire forming brass now instead of just neck resizing. My Winchester Mod 70 in 338-06 AI should be ready on Friday. I ordered 100 pieces of Lapua 30-06 brass from Midway today that is what I am going to work with.

Anybody want to buy a Lee Pacesetter die set in 338-06 A-Square?

 

[flatwater bill]

I have had them check the head-stamps very carefully the last few trips. Have owned and used a lot of wildcats, even taken them to Africa in yesteryear. 338-06 is a marvelous cartridge......but all my expanded 06 cases are useless for travel now. Made some out of military 06 some years back, that confused them, but they let them thru. Wouldn't try it again. Went to the Whelen.......can't see a whit of difference in the field. Lot of good info in this thread........wouldn't hesitate to hunt anything on Earth with my 35 Whelen AI (if it were legal) only cartridge more useful is the .243 .........FWB

 

[fourfive8]

Nothing wrong with the AI version. I have had an AI version in both the 30-06 and 35 Whelen. Didn't gain anything ballistically in the '06 and not needed for headspace control because the '06 shoulder is more than adequate. Nothing gained ballistically in the 35 Whelen AI but it did increase headspace control which increased case life. Loss of headspace control becomes very apparent in the 35 Whelen when shooting low pressure, cast bullet loads. Full pressure loads simply reset the primer while stretching the case rearward... thus masking the stretch that has already happened. If any thing, the 338-06 version may help prevent case stretching, albeit likely it will be a very small amount as the shoulder on the 338-06 is adequate, in my experience. Anyone with a regular 35 Whelen or 375 Whelen or 40 Whelen can test the theory in their own rifle. Resize a case as per normal. Prime it. Shoot it. Inspect primer protrusion in the fired case.

For larger than wildebeest, I just use a 375 HH or 416 rem Mag. BTW, 375HH and 416 Rem Mag work great on smaller antelope like impala. Doesn't waste meat, ruin hides or capes by blowing big holes.