.333 Jeff - Resurrecting an old soldier

[Ontario Hunter]

Respectfully, we’re operating in different planes @Ontario Hunter . Your recommendations of TruOil and Linspeed might be a way to put a finish on a gun, but its also would reduce the appraisal on a vintage british gun by thousands of dollars. I was trying to get the OP‘s gun to as lightly and correctly conserved as possible, erasing signs of heavy handed amateur gunsmithing. Truoil and a light sanding and that gun will be $400 in a gun rack.

Both oil finishes are mostly boiled linseed oil which is what would have been used by the "classic" gun makers. If applied correctly Linspeed can certainly imitate or surpass those finishes. The key is filling the grain. If desired, several coats can be added after grain is filled without rubbing off and a deep glossy finish can be obtained. Personally not my choice. Some of the classics go for this, some want the flatter less glossy appearance. The wood can of course be stained before oil finish is applied if so desired. It would not be my choice but perhaps a more rapid patina is desired. One should be aware that creating an instant classic patina will result in a much darker unnatural appearance down the road as the wood ages.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Respectfully, we’re operating in different planes @Ontario Hunter . Your recommendations of TruOil and Linspeed might be a way to put a finish on a gun, but its also would reduce the appraisal on a vintage british gun by thousands of dollars. I was trying to get the OP‘s gun to as lightly and correctly conserved as possible, erasing signs of heavy handed amateur gunsmithing. Truoil and a light sanding and that gun will be $400 in a gun rack.

Keep in mind that Charles Osborne Company was not Rigby. They specialized in making mass produced "affordable" safari rifles for export to Africa and India. As evidenced by the cheap wood and poorly applied finish on this rifle, it never was a "top shelf" custom gun product even when it came out of the plant. Should the OP be that concerned about dressing it up into something it was not if preserving collector value is the objective? Whatever finish/stain he puts on it now, it will clearly NOT be original. Make it look nice. Linspeed does it for me.

Right now, I would say the bore is of most concern. If it's beat, all the cosmetics in the world will not make this gun collectible. Perhaps he will have to be more concerned about simply making it a shooter ... i.e. rebarrel or rebore.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I recently took over possession of a .333 Jeffery by Charles Osborne. The rifle was found at a police station where it was abandoned decades ago. The rifle was in a poor but working state. The barrel is frosted and very dark. I took the rifle to a local gunsmith who re-blued the barrel and action, redid the checkering, fitted a recoil pad and gave her an "oil finish." He also replaced the buffalo horn fore-end with ebony. The action was drilled and tapped, and I fitted a little Leupold Scope. I still have a lot of work to do on her, but I believe she has class and lots of potential.

View attachment 580603

I am, however, not happy with how the stock came out. It has a strange lighter colouring at the bottom. I would love to get the colour right. Please recommend what you would do. I'm considering using the Birch Casey stock finishing kit with the walnut stain, but I don't know if this will give the desired result. The forum members have tremendous experience - Let me know what you think I should do with the stock and any other tips or suggestions you have for me.

View attachment 580604View attachment 580605

@Piet-Vis
You could strip the oiliness off then apply Red oil to the desired hue and finish with LINSPEED OIL for a nice old London oil finish. It will take time but worth looking at.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I recently took over possession of a .333 Jeffery by Charles Osborne. The rifle was found at a police station where it was abandoned decades ago. The rifle was in a poor but working state. The barrel is frosted and very dark. I took the rifle to a local gunsmith who re-blued the barrel and action, redid the checkering, fitted a recoil pad and gave her an "oil finish." He also replaced the buffalo horn fore-end with ebony. The action was drilled and tapped, and I fitted a little Leupold Scope. I still have a lot of work to do on her, but I believe she has class and lots of potential.

View attachment 580603

I am, however, not happy with how the stock came out. It has a strange lighter colouring at the bottom. I would love to get the colour right. Please recommend what you would do. I'm considering using the Birch Casey stock finishing kit with the walnut stain, but I don't know if this will give the desired result. The forum members have tremendous experience - Let me know what you think I should do with the stock and any other tips or suggestions you have for me.

View attachment 580604View attachment 580605

@Piet-Vis
Forgot ot attach this.
Bob

 

[Boone66]

The bronze wool and bristle only provides structure, a few bristles poke through the patch at most, the Kroil and JB do all the work.

For all things holy, do not use birchwood casey on that gun. It will be far worse than what you had already. I didn’t say to remove all the finish as you’ve done, I said take off half. No sanding! Then use a pigmented finish like Timberluxe. The gun will be unfit for even firewood if you use bitch woods BS oil finish or even worse, truoil, or even worse their whole catastrophic kit.

Correct, Tru oil is the bane of the gun stock world.

 

[rookhawk]

Some illustrations of guns of worked on over the years so you can visualize the good, the bad, and the ugly.

One of my early jobs. A crap-job using truoil on a Spanish Grulla 12 bore. Yes, I got a full grain fill. But the stain was poor, the tru-oil grain fill has no pigmentation nor depth. It’s just an ugly piece of wood covered in plastic:

This gun was heavily worn, but was a rather cool 9.3x64 brenneke. I couldn’t undo the honest wear on the gun, nor could I square off wood that was worn from carry. I could even out some of the surfaces, get rotten stone into the pores, and try to close them up a bit. I did this without giving a tarted up appearance of a restoration, just honestly preserving the original finish and making the gun a well carried, but well loved European safari rifle. I also cleaned the checkering and recut only the borders, giving the checkering new life without making it look too crisp and wrong for the rest of the gun. This is what the OPs gun should look like, rather than too restored and thus, incongruent with the rest of the rifle.

Here’s an 1860s era best Boss 12 bore hammergun. Oil finish the boss/purdey way. A drop a day for a month. A drop a week for a month. A drop a month for a year. Rubbing out the finish with spirits as It went. Boss were known for a very understated, straight grain in that era. This finish allows a fairly pedestrian piece of English Walnut to pop. Original wood.

Westley Richards 318 Take Down Mauser. I didn’t want to mess with it, giving it any appearance of restoration. I tried to close some of the pores, but nowhere near all of them. Just tried to hold the originality that remained so I wouldn’t be the first dirty bastard to give an original gun a “resto”.

This was a restock of the Nawab of Rampur’s best Charles Lancaster 20 bore. Again, a simple, straight grain English walnut, because it was a very slight sidelock with perkins ejectors and back action locks. Barely any wood at the head of the stock, so straight timber for strength was important. A full grain fill and a Purdey Finish is what was required. Before the gun was lost for 70 years, it was photographed in an English shotgun book in 1954. I tried to get a wood grain and finish that matched the photographs of the original stock. (Original stock beyond repair, rotted at the head)

This is another example of what I think the OP’s gun should look like. A fairly pedestrian piece of walnut on a Cogswell 375HH. A full refinish would result in dark marks anywhere there were dents in the wood. Hence, steaming the dents as best I could. Used a lot of alkanet root to build up the red color. Laid on additional oil. The dark color makes the gun look correct without a tacky, amateurish refinish or sanding all the original square edges off.

 

[rookhawk]

Lastly, here’s a pimp gun I did for someone. It’s a Voere or Kleingunther or some other thing I have no desire to own. It’s a truoil finish just like he wanted. It looks like a piano, could serve as a signal mirror for calling in a rescue chopper, and just reeks of ugly. This is that Perazzi/Kolar look. I just hate it. Looks plastic. Grain fill is lifeless with the pores filled with plastics and polymers. The antithesis of what I want to be as a stock finisher. Like a moth to flame for amateur collectors, looks impressive until you realize how cheap and easy it is to do compared to the better finishes above.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Correct, Tru oil is the bane of the gun stock world.

@Boone66
I used Tru oil once and didn't like it.
I now use LINSPEED OIL. A bit harder to use as the stock prep has to be spot on so takes a bit more work but the results are well worth it. LINSPEED gives a beautiful satin finish with a warm glow. It's easily repaired if you get a scratch just apply more oil. Protect the final job with Gilleys gun wax and water just runs off like water on a ducks back. I've been using it for over 10 years and won't use anything else.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I took @rookhawk advice and decided I might as well try to wash the oil finish off while I wait for the Birchwood Casey kit I ordered online from the US. This being Africa North of Limpopo and quality workmanship not being one of the things we excel in, I was not surprised when I washed a thin layer of oil coat of without too much effort. The results are posted below. My take is that I need to sand off what appears to be an old finish/stain before I can proceed. Agreed?

View attachment 583743View attachment 583744

I have a question about the cigarette method of barrel cleaning - Brass brush, brass wool, covered by a cotton batch covered in kroil and then smeared with JB bore paste. I want to better understand why and how that works. Perhaps I misunderstand you, but how will the brass brush/brass wool (I did not know that existed!) act to clean the barrel underneath the cotton patch?
I had given the barrel a few hundred strokes of first JB Bore Paste and then a few hundred more of Bore Bright. My patches are coming out clean - bore still looks terrible. I was wondering if ceramic treatment like Dyna-Tek wont help?

@Piet-Vis
0000 brass wool is a specialist item. I even had to order some in Australia but it works a treat. Used it on an old SMLE 303 as described and the crap bore came out a lot better. You will end up with forearms like Popeye when you finish but the effort is worth it usually. Never used Dynatech but some swear by it.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The bronze wool and bristle only provides structure, a few bristles poke through the patch at most, the Kroil and JB do all the work.

For all things holy, do not use birchwood casey on that gun. It will be far worse than what you had already. I didn’t say to remove all the finish as you’ve done, I said take off half. No sanding! Then use a pigmented finish like Timberluxe. The gun will be unfit for even firewood if you use bitch woods BS oil finish or even worse, truoil, or even worse their whole catastrophic kit.

@rookhawk
I wouldn't even use bitchwood tru oil on a 243 and you know how much I don't like them. Even a 243 needs more love than that crap.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Use a chemical stripper to finish the job you have started. These are water soluable. Paint the stuff on, let it set for about ten minutes, and scrape off excess with a flat putty knife. May take a couple of repeats to get most of the finish off. Then paint with stripper and scrub off with water and a brass wire brush. Be gentle with checkering. I use the tip of a knife to scrape the stripper from checkering valleys. Eventually you will have it down to clean bare wood. Use the tip of hot steam iron against a wet rag to steam out dents. They can often be raised to surface again though you will still the wrinkle in wood grain. Then sand it smooth. Clean the checkered areas with water and a tooth brush. Avoid sanding the checkered areas. At the very end use 00 steel wool to lightly knock the fuzz off checkered areas.

I have used BC True Oil. It's okay. I prefer Linspeed brand stock oil but may not be available for you in RSA. I apply a coat of oil finish. After it's dried about a half hour till tacky, I rub each coat off with paper towels and throw them away. Repeat at least a dozen times till grain is filled. Skip the checkered areas until the very last coat. Just one light final coat over checkering. I use my finger when applying the oil and rub it in. I have refinished a couple dozen stocks this way. The stripper and water will much more effectively lift the stain from the wood. Sanding out would be a lot more work.

@Ontario Hunter
I use the same method but knock the feathering down with 0000 steel wool. I also use 1500grit wet snd dry dipped in LINSPEED between coats to help fill any pores then reapply more oil. I do this for 10 coats. After a couple of months to cure I then apply Gilleys gun wax to make the finish impervious to water and dust.

LINSPEED is available on line and they will send it anywhere in the world even Australia.
Bob

 

[Ontario Hunter]

@Ontario Hunter
I use the same method but knock the feathering down with 0000 steel wool. I also use 1500grit wet snd dry dipped in LINSPEED between coats to help fill any pores then reapply more oil. I do this for 10 coats. After a couple of months to cure I then apply Gilleys gun wax to make the finish impervious to water and dust.

LINSPEED is available on line and they will send it anywhere in the world even Australia.
Bob

Linspeed was out of production for quite a while. Only been available again relatively recently.

I use paper towels to rub out coats after they are dry enough to be tacky. Works about the same as steel wool but not as messy and paper towels are cheaper.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Lastly, here’s a pimp gun I did for someone. It’s a Voere or Kleingunther or some other thing I have no desire to own. It’s a truoil finish just like he wanted. It looks like a piano, could serve as a signal mirror for calling in a rescue chopper, and just reeks of ugly. This is that Perazzi/Kolar look. I just hate it. Looks plastic. Grain fill is lifeless with the pores filled with plastics and polymers. The antithesis of what I want to be as a stock finisher. Like a moth to flame for amateur collectors, looks impressive until you realize how cheap and easy it is to do compared to the better finishes above.

View attachment 584006

@rookhawk
That's why I like LINSPEED oil. You DONT FILLthe pores we it garbage.
LINSPEED actually says not to fill the pores before use. Lightly sanding with 1500 grit dipped in their oil will fill the pores with very fine ORIGINAL timber dust and result in a smooth finish. A pia to do between coats but worth the effort.
The upside it give a nice satin hand rubbed glow to the timber.

I 100% agree refinishing some guns will dramatically reduce their value to a fraction of what they would have otherwise been worth. Patina takes years to acquire but seconds to ruin.
The OP has already stripped the stock so has possibly affected the value. To me it is best to RESTORE it to as close as possible to an original oil finish to enhance the rifle. Tru oil would RUIN it in my book but I do love a nice hand rubbed oil finish.
Sitting on a couch with a nice rifle you have finish and rubbing some oil into the stock until it is warm and thinking of past hunts or thinking of future hunts is very cathartic ( my big word for the day)
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Both oil finishes are mostly boiled linseed oil which is what would have been used by the "classic" gun makers. If applied correctly Linspeed can certainly imitate or surpass those finishes. The key is filling the grain. If desired, several coats can be added after grain is filled without rubbing off and a deep glossy finish can be obtained. Personally not my choice. Some of the classics go for this, some want the flatter less glossy appearance. The wood can of course be stained before oil finish is applied if so desired. It would not be my choice but perhaps a more rapid patina is desired. One should be aware that creating an instant classic patina will result in a much darker unnatural appearance down the road as the wood ages.View attachment 583831View attachment 583832

@Ontario Hunter
LINSPEED recommends not filling the pores first as it may affect the finish.
I lightly sand with 1000 to 1500 grit wet and dry dipped in LINSPEED. This way the fine dust and oil fill the pores and give a far better finish. More labour intensive yes but worth it.
Bob

 

[Ontario Hunter]

@Ontario Hunter
LINSPEED recommends not filling the pores first as it may affect the finish.
I lightly sand with 1000 to 1500 grit wet and dry dipped in LINSPEED. This way the fine dust and oil fill the pores and give a far better finish. More labour intensive yes but worth it.
Bob

I think they mean don't fill the pores with fillers (especially water based stains or polyurethane finishes that contain stain). I fill the pores with Linspeed only. When each semidry coat is rubbed out with paper towels, the stuff in pores remains. It usually takes at least a dozen coats rubbed off before the pores are filled with Linspeed.

Minwax makes an oil based stain called "Gunstock." I used it on the pine wanescoting in my living room with darker chestnut colored cap, corner molding, and baseboard. Looks like it might be useful for obtaining that rich classic custom gun patina (which I personally do not find desirable). It has a reddish hue. If staining the bare stock, I would wipe off all excess stain with a rag soaked in mineral spirits, let it dry, then go to work with Linspeed.

 

[rookhawk]

Red hue can be obtained by using alkanet root, or metal shavings and steel wool soaked in vinegar, or both. The use of rotten stone is two fold, not only polishing the layers of oil, but it also provides part of the grain fill that gives the traditional flecking in the finish that gives the gun English character.

The old recipes are readily available and can be made in Africa. Venetian Turpentine, Mineral Spirits, BLO, Beeswax, and lanolin are all parts of the original recipes, rubbed down with spirits between coats. Spar Varnish can be used as a hardener between coats of oil for the rub down as well.

The best thing about the traditional finishes is they are hard to screw up, because they build up so slowly. Modern finishes are so thick that you can go overboard very quickly.

For $30 a bottle, timberluxe isn’t a bad all in one product for partial or whole refinishes, particularly if a base layer or three of BLO is used first.

 

[Piet-Vis]

I'm amazed at the depth of knowledge of the forum members. I appreciate your interest! Unfortunately, the rifle was in a terrible state after potentially several decades in a police station in humid central Africa. The rifle has no value, and I would not get a single offer if I had tried to sell it. That it did not go missing from the police station is a testament to that. The stock had no nice old patina, just a dull, dark, brown colour. This is a rifle that was never loved and had only known neglect. However, she is well-balanced, elegant, light, and immanently pointable, unlike what we usually see around here. I started this project to learn and enjoy, and I am under no illusion that I will turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. However. I think the 250-grain ballistics would be fantastic for the Bushveld, and if I can get her shooting at Minute of Sable, to quote Pete, she will become a fine hunting companion. What I had ordered was Birchwood Casey Walnut Stain, (to try and get off the light-coloured underside of the stock), and then Rusty Walnut to hopefully get some red into the wood. My thought was to follow that up with an oil coat. From the discussion, I gathered that Lynnspeed would be a good option. I do wonder if the wood has the potential to really display well after a London oil-type finish. Or, will I just spend hours rubbing away at something that is not worth it?

 

[rookhawk]

I'm amazed at the depth of knowledge of the forum members. I appreciate your interest! Unfortunately, the rifle was in a terrible state after potentially several decades in a police station in humid central Africa. The rifle has no value, and I would not get a single offer if I had tried to sell it. That it did not go missing from the police station is a testament to that. The stock had no nice old patina, just a dull, dark, brown colour. This is a rifle that was never loved and had only known neglect. However, she is well-balanced, elegant, light, and immanently pointable, unlike what we usually see around here. I started this project to learn and enjoy, and I am under no illusion that I will turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. However. I think the 250-grain ballistics would be fantastic for the Bushveld, and if I can get her shooting at Minute of Sable, to quote Pete, she will become a fine hunting companion. What I had ordered was Birchwood Casey Walnut Stain, (to try and get off the light-coloured underside of the stock), and then Rusty Walnut to hopefully get some red into the wood. My thought was to follow that up with an oil coat. From the discussion, I gathered that Lynnspeed would be a good option. I do wonder if the wood has the potential to really display well after a London oil-type finish. Or, will I just spend hours rubbing away at something that is not worth it?

@Piet-Vis What I was trying to convey to you with info and pictures above is this. Many of the pretty guns I showed actually had equal to inferior wood to your gun. A proper grain fill with rotten stone will give the black flecking. Building up the finish with pigment will enhance the natural stripes in the wood. The gun is better than you think because you don't yet understand what a good finish can do.

As to value, I would have bought the gun from you before it had been messed with. The scope mounts I'm not crazy about, and the finish and recoil pad, plus prior refinish work lowers the value some, but a "Farm fresh" basket case restored correctly can still hold value, particularly if handloaded ammo can return it to accurate use. (they usually can, but when loaded long to counter throat erosion)

The gun restored properly had a $3200-$4500 value, provided the bore can be attended and it shoots well. Reworked, resanded, holes drilled for the wrong scope mounts, bad pads, its a sub-$1000 gun. The correct restoration, done by an expert, would run $1000-$1200 and would include bluing, side safety, scope mounts that do not interfere with the iron sights, an orange SW Silvers pad, and a London finish. A patient, very cautious individual can do all this work themselves, but it requires patience and discernment, weeding through everybody's internet opinions to figure out what is true and wise. My opinion of its potential value is higher than others on this forum, but my opinion of how it should be conserved or restored is also more particular. There is an infinite supply of badly restored guns for cheap money out there, there are very few good ones. I hoped your gun would end up being the latter.

Charles Osborne made nice guns and even some best grade guns. Yours is mid-grade, not low-grade when originally manufactured.

 

[Piet-Vis]

@Piet-Vis What I was trying to convey to you with info and pictures above is this. Many of the pretty guns I showed actually had equal to inferior wood to your gun. A proper grain fill with rotten stone will give the black flecking. Building up the finish with pigment will enhance the natural stripes in the wood. The gun is better than you think because you don't yet understand what a good finish can do.

As to value, I would have bought the gun from you before it had been messed with. The scope mounts I'm not crazy about, and the finish and recoil pad, plus prior refinish work lowers the value some, but a "Farm fresh" basket case restored correctly can still hold value, particularly if handloaded ammo can return it to accurate use. (they usually can, but when loaded long to counter throat erosion)

The gun restored properly had a $3200-$4500 value, provided the bore can be attended and it shoots well. Reworked, resanded, holes drilled for the wrong scope mounts, bad pads, its a sub-$1000 gun. The correct restoration, done by an expert, would run $1000-$1200 and would include bluing, side safety, scope mounts that do not interfere with the iron sights, an orange SW Silvers pad, and a London finish. A patient, very cautious individual can do all this work themselves, but it requires patience and discernment, weeding through everybody's internet opinions to figure out what is true and wise. My opinion of its potential value is higher than others on this forum, but my opinion of how it should be conserved or restored is also more particular. There is an infinite supply of badly restored guns for cheap money out there, there are very few good ones. I hoped your gun would end up being the latter.

Charles Osborne made nice guns and even some best grade guns. Yours is mid-grade, not low-grade when originally manufactured.

I bow to your obviously very superior experience. I might have judged the rifle worth less than it truly was.
Question - where can I find rotten stone? In my minds eye I see the type that my father uses to expertly sharpen his knives?

 

[rookhawk]

I bow to your obviously very superior experience. I might have judged the rifle worth less than it truly was.
Question - where can I find rotten stone? In my minds eye I see the type that my father uses to expertly sharpen his knives?

Rotten Stone is sold in the US on Amazon. I don't know all its uses, but one is polishing. Gunsmiths doing stock finish put it in a salt shaker with very fine holes so you can apply small amounts to the gun during the process of laying out an oil finish, or polishing that finish to satin sheen.