308 Winchester Caliber Opinions...

[sgt_zim]

Lots of people don't like .308 Win and 30-06 because they aren't "sexy" flat-shooters. As I always say, it doesn't really matter because if the shooter isn't practicing at long range, past 300 yards, a flat-shooting magnum isn't going to get him anything he doesn't already get with those two non-magnum 30 cals. I don't believe I'd want to put anything heavier than 180 gr in a .308 Win, and I'd be more than fine with a 200 or 220 gr in a 30-06. And anything inside 200 yards is a chip-shot for any of them with pretty much any bullet.

 

[Daga Boy]

This season we loaded the 308 with 180gr Norma Oryx for use in the bush. Performance has been outstanding. No fragmentation whatsoever. Would have no difficulty taking an eland with this load provided the range is acceptable - which it always is in the bush country. (typically 25 - 75m)

 

[sgt_zim]

This season we loaded the 308 with 180gr Norma Oryx for use in the bush. Performance has been outstanding. No fragmentation whatsoever. Would have no difficulty taking an eland with this load provided the range is acceptable - which it always is in the bush country. (typically 25 - 75m)

Sounds like the perfect environment for my 45-70 and some 525 gr Piledrivers.

 

[Daga Boy]

Indeed! In the bush slower and heavier is the way to go. I am currently looking at using my .458 "guide gun" as my only bush rifle. Just need to see whether I can get 400gr Spitzers to print more or less directly above my normal 500gr carry loads. If so it would be fine on normal game to at least 150m and still serve as a point blank charge stopper.

 

[sgt_zim]

Do you ever shoot hardcast lead out of your .458? I shoot WLNGC in 425 and (coming soon) 525 gr Beartooth Bullets out of my 1895 GBL. I'm getting stellar accuracy out of the 425 gr, with 3 out of 5 touching at 50 yards through an aperture sight.

The 525s are rated to about 1700 fps out of a 45-70, keeping it a bit short of the 40,000 PSI mark. I bet with the gas check, you could probably right at 2K fps out of your 458 (Win Mag or Lott?)

38 grains of RL-7 gets me just under 1500 fps with the 425s. I'm going to try and get those to about 1700 or 1750.

 

[Daga Boy]

Thanks for that info.
I haven't tried it yet as the .458 was for many years strictly for guiding / DG so I stuck with heavy jacketed bullets.
However I have now done some research and started experimenting with a view to it as general hunting rifle in bush terrain. Have bought a bunch of cast TMJ type 350 grainers and a selection of normal hunting bullets ranging from 350 to 450gr . I am actually very interested in trying hard cast lead as bullets of that kind performed well in old school 450 cal rifles at moderate velocities. (They don't need to expand as they are already big).
I have also noticed with several calibres that I actually get better performance at short range by loading heavier bullets to reduced velocities, which is basically how all of the old school calibres worked.
Mine is Win Mag, but its a BRNO 602 and the chamber and lead are quite long, so I can long load it to within about 6mm of a Lott COL.
The project is currently interrupted due to a stock failure.
I am planning to either video or write the project up once I resume it. Will keep you posted.

 

[sgt_zim]

My pleasure.

The guy who makes these uses his own alloy. It has a BNH of about 22 or 23, which is the same as straight linotype, but not brittle like linotype tends to be. It's probably about the same alloy used by Buffalo Bore and Garret Cartridges. He pours a 350 gr GC with the same nose profile as the 425 and 525 - meplat is around .370, give or take a little, for all 3 bullets.

My paper targets all look like I've been shooting wad-cutters.

If you haven't slugged your barrel, I'd recommend doing that before buying any hard-cast lead. You'll want to buy bullets that are about .001" bigger than your groove diameter. I shoot .459 out of my 45-70. The great thing about shooting lead is that if you can't find any published loads for a given weight lead bullet, it's safe to load them as you would an identical weight jacketed bullet.

 

[7x57Joe]

I have taken a couple of elk using my .45-70 and pure lead bullets at 1600 fps muzzle velocity. These ran 7 BHN and I would suggest for African use to make them 12-15 for complete penetration.

 

[Daga Boy]

My son got a decent wildebeest with the 308 this morning. The 180gr normal oryx did a great job (again)

 

[TOBY458]

Here is my Kimber Montana 308 Win. With a Leupold 2-7×33 scope in Burries Z Rings and Warne steel scope bases, it weighs in at 5lbs 13oz total. I can't wait to see how she shoots! (I just got around to putting a scope on it). I can't imagine a better rifle for most any hunting that requires a lot of walking or stalking.
I have had several 308 rifles over the years, and have shot a fair amount of deer with them. I also am a big fan of the 30/06. I've never noticed any difference in performance between the two rounds on deer sized game.

 

[tarbe]

My son got a decent wildebeest with the 308 this morning. The 180gr normal oryx did a great job (again) View attachment 244587 View attachment 244588 View attachment 244589

Clean them out guys. They have 165gr even a little cheaper!

https://www.bullets.com/products/American-PH-308-Win-180-Grain-Oryx-Ammo-Box-of-20/BL10448

 

[TOBY458]

Clean them out guys. They have 165gr even a little cheaper!

https://www.bullets.com/products/American-PH-308-Win-180-Grain-Oryx-Ammo-Box-of-20/BL10448

100 rounds of 180gr 308 and 100 rounds of 165gr 30/06 on the way! Thanks for the heads up! They were out of the 165gr 308, but 180s should do fine for Georgia deer and hog hunting.

 

[Daga Boy]

The trusty old 308 takes another kudu. 180gr Oryx at 140m. Spine shot

 

[tarbe]

100 rounds of 180gr 308 and 100 rounds of 165gr 30/06 on the way! Thanks for the heads up! They were out of the 165gr 308, but 180s should do fine for Georgia deer and hog hunting.

Loaded Norma ammo for about the cost of Norma brass is hard to beat!!

I noticed the 165gr got cleaned out.

 

[Daga Boy]

A beautiful 52" kudu taken cleanly with the trusty 308 this afternoon. 180gr Oryx @ 2400fps. Ran 10m

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

I agree with all to are.

 

[Rob404]

Ola Marco, I'm surprised I haven't put my 2cts in yet. I took two Rifles to hunt with in Africa a CZ375HH and a CZ550 308 Mannlicher. After the first day I put the 375 in the case and spent the rest of the week hunting with the 308, I used 165g Sierra game kings on all my plains game All were one shot kills

 

[curtism1234]

Clean them out guys. They have 165gr even a little cheaper!

https://www.bullets.com/products/American-PH-308-Win-180-Grain-Oryx-Ammo-Box-of-20/BL10448

Well that is $300 I'm going to have to hide from the Mrs. Thanks a lot...

 

[tarbe]

Well that is $300 I'm going to have to hide from the Mrs. Thanks a lot...

Focus on how much money of hers you saved!!

In your local gun shop that same ammo would have been at least $600.

So take her out to dinner on a portion of the savings. She'll appreciate it, and will encourage you to continue saving money in such a fashion!

 

[7x57Joe]

tarbe, I like how you think!

Focus on how much money of hers you saved!!

In your local gun shop that same ammo would have been at least $600.

So take her out to dinner on a portion of the savings. She'll appreciate it, and will encourage you to continue saving money in such a fashion!