.308 Win. for Antelope?

[Joseph Snyder]

I used a CZ .308 and 165 Woodleighs on my first trip to Africa and should have stayed with that combo for the second trip. Shots were from 40 to 210 metres. I took all the species you list except Lechwe.

IMO the .308/165 combination is perfect for PG.

Good, very good. Did you misss the Lechwe? Or didn't you buy a tag?

 

[Joseph Snyder]

A lot to be said for 165-180 grnrs. I've used 180 RN Core-lokts on Sambar for many years and they've performed pretty well. (Bought 300- 25 years ago-100 left). I guess there are better projectiles around these days.
Lot of the locals over there use the 308 but they are shooting those animals a lot more frequently than most of us.
Familiarity can breed profficiency
Good luck if you get over.

Interesting, I didn't know the locals used .308s! Thanks! I think I will need prayers to get over there, though!

 

[Code4]

Good, very good. Did you misss the Lechwe? Or didn't you buy a tag?

Lechwe inhabit a very specific biome (environment). I only hunt animals in their natural biome and Lechwe do not naturally occur where I have hunted. The .308W is extremely common in RSA and southern Africa.

 

[trigger creep]

The reason why the .308 and .30-06 are so close in performance is because the .308 is loaded to a higher pressure than the .30-06. When handloaded, the '06 has quite an edge over the .308. Some guys on the internet brag about pushing 180's out of their .30-06 at close too 2900 fps, I personally wouldn't do it but there are quite a few people who clame to do it. I know that it is possible to load a .30-06 hotter than what the factories do without putting yourself in any danger, but I don't know about these guys that claim that they push 180's at near 2900 fps. They are either stretching the truth a little or are running a really hot load.

Now back to the original question, plenty of Elk, Moose, and plainsgame are killed every year by the .308. If it kills Moose just fine (which it does) than it will serve you fine in Africa, except probably for Eland.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I guess it would depend on how a person defines at/near 2900 fps, but my response would be there's a reason why the .300 magnums were developed. If that's the speed they want, then that's what they should have bought.

 

[Joseph Snyder]

Lechwe inhabit a very specific biome (environment). I only hunt animals in their natural biome and Lechwe do not naturally occur where I have hunted. The .308W is extremely common in RSA and southern Africa.

Ahhhh, I see.

 

[Joseph Snyder]

The reason why the .308 and .30-06 are so close in performance is because the .308 is loaded to a higher pressure than the .30-06. When handloaded, the '06 has quite an edge over the .308. Some guys on the internet brag about pushing 180's out of their .30-06 at close too 2900 fps, I personally wouldn't do it but there are quite a few people who clame to do it. I know that it is possible to load a .30-06 hotter than what the factories do without putting yourself in any danger, but I don't know about these guys that claim that they push 180's at near 2900 fps. They are either stretching the truth a little or are running a really hot load.

Now back to the original question, plenty of Elk, Moose, and plainsgame are killed every year by the .308. If it kills Moose just fine (which it does) than it will serve you fine in Africa, except probably for Eland.

Yeah, you know hunters+fisherman. On Bass Pro Shops' doors it reads 'Welcome hunters, fishers, and other liars'.

 

[sestoppelman]

Yes, I would very much doubt that the fine old '06 can within sane pressure limits drive a 180 gr. to 2900 fps, though I have seen such stated in loading manuals. However they have to be real optimists! Nosler is the biggest offender in this regard, often stating velocites that are way beyond all others per the same basic load. My Nosler manual gives 2872 fps for its 180 bullet using 61 grs of R-22. The SPEER manual which is much more realistic in my view, gives 2721 fps using 62 grs of R-22 with their 180 bullet. Of course many factors can influence bullet speed, we all know that. But 2900 with a 180, safely? Good luck with that!

 

[35bore]

UHHHH I think I am agreeing with sestoppelman here, in the 150gr to the 165gr (bullet gr) area i think the 308 and 30-06 are pretty compareable, but, where the 30-06 gains an advantage, because of the extra room for powder is in the 180-220gr area..... Both are great cartridges and i love them both, I prefer the 308win, but, I have to give credit where credit is due, the 30-06 does have an advantage ever so slight it may be.

 

[Joseph Snyder]

Yes, I would very much doubt that the fine old '06 can within sane pressure limits drive a 180 gr. to 2900 fps, though I have seen such stated in loading manuals. However they have to be real optimists! Nosler is the biggest offender in this regard, often stating velocites that are way beyond all others per the same basic load. My Nosler manual gives 2872 fps for its 180 bullet using 61 grs of R-22. The SPEER manual which is much more realistic in my view, gives 2721 fps using 62 grs of R-22 with their 180 bullet. Of course many factors can influence bullet speed, we all know that. But 2900 with a 180, safely? Good luck with that!

Well, you shoot what you shoot, and I shoot what I shoot.

 

[trigger creep]

Yes, I would very much doubt that the fine old '06 can within sane pressure limits drive a 180 gr. to 2900 fps, though I have seen such stated in loading manuals. However they have to be real optimists! Nosler is the biggest offender in this regard, often stating velocites that are way beyond all others per the same basic load. My Nosler manual gives 2872 fps for its 180 bullet using 61 grs of R-22. The SPEER manual which is much more realistic in my view, gives 2721 fps using 62 grs of R-22 with their 180 bullet. Of course many factors can influence bullet speed, we all know that. But 2900 with a 180, safely? Good luck with that!

I was reading this one forum and there was several guys claiming that they get 2900 fps out of a 180 grain load. I never would try such a thing, but there are those who claim to do it. One guy even claimed that he gets 3000 fps out of a 180 grain in a .30-06! It is very easy to claim such a thing on the i-net, but that is what he claimed anyway.....

 

[sestoppelman]

And besides whats the point? If you want that speed get a magnum. Years ago it was considered a real handloaders feat to get close to 2800fps out of a 180. Now we want 3000?! Just beats the hell out of the gun.

 

[Joseph Snyder]

And besides whats the point? If you want that speed get a magnum. Years ago it was considered a real handloaders feat to get close to 2800fps out of a 180. Now we want 3000?! Just beats the hell out of the gun.

I don't see the point in having that much fps, either.

 

[Calhoun]

The 30/06 & 308 are 2 of the greatest carteidges around! Load them the way they are intended to and there is very litlle that will not fall to them. From Elk to Wildebeest to gemsbuck & kudu, along with other antelope game in Africa & deer If I did my part msot of them diden't go more than a few yards. Trying to load these guns over what they are intended is like playing Russian Roulette! It makes no sense. If that's what you want go out & buy a magnum or the next biggest caliber.

 

[6MM]

The reason why the .308 and .30-06 are so close in performance is because the .308 is loaded to a higher pressure than the .30-06. When handloaded, the '06 has quite an edge over the .308. Some guys on the internet brag about pushing 180's out of their .30-06 at close too 2900 fps, I personally wouldn't do it but there are quite a few people who clame to do it. I know that it is possible to load a .30-06 hotter than what the factories do without putting yourself in any danger, but I don't know about these guys that claim that they push 180's at near 2900 fps. They are either stretching the truth a little or are running a really hot load.

Now back to the original question, plenty of Elk, Moose, and plainsgame are killed every year by the .308. If it kills Moose just fine (which it does) than it will serve you fine in Africa, except probably for Eland.

The problem with loading stuff that hot is that in the heat of the hunt you may not be able to extract the case because the brass and/or primer is outside of it's spec'd limits. We all know we try to make that first one the right shot, but sometimes it does not go down perfectly and you need a follow-up. Using hot ammo can endanger that.

I load a lot of "wildcat cartridges" and whenever I am working up my loads I will push the limit to find the hot load. I never load or use that load again but I know where the limit is. I'd have to say 90% of the time my best shooting loads (wildcats or not) are 2 to 3 grains under the max. In my experience no matter what rifle I am working loads for I'll always find a sweet spot on the low end of the load table, and another close to the top end of the table but not the maximum.

And as other's have said that's why I have a 375 H&H

 

[trigger creep]

And besides whats the point? If you want that speed get a magnum. Years ago it was considered a real handloaders feat to get close to 2800fps out of a 180. Now we want 3000?! Just beats the hell out of the gun.

I frankly think those guys that I mentioned were full of crap. I don't see how they could achieve that or why they would want to. Like you said if you want magnum velocity just get a magnum.

 

[35bore]

There is nothing you can kill with a 30 caliber bullet that requires that much damn speed, your standard 308 is a fine round, and a 30-06 (inside the norm of reality) is just as good, with a slight edge...

If you want to do long range work, then as previously mentioned, buy a magnum. From what I have read and experienced you would have to really impress most of the good P.H.'s with your shooting ability for them to let you take looooonnnnngggggg shot's anyway.

 

[trigger creep]

The problem with loading stuff that hot is that in the heat of the hunt you may not be able to extract the case because the brass and/or primer is outside of it's spec'd limits. We all know we try to make that first one the right shot, but sometimes it does not go down perfectly and you need a follow-up. Using hot ammo can endanger that.

I load a lot of "wildcat cartridges" and whenever I am working up my loads I will push the limit to find the hot load. I never load or use that load again but I know where the limit is. I'd have to say 90% of the time my best shooting loads (wildcats or not) are 2 to 3 grains under the max. In my experience no matter what rifle I am working loads for I'll always find a sweet spot on the low end of the load table, and another close to the top end of the table but not the maximum.

And as other's have said that's why I have a 375 H&H

Hey, I told them why that their loads were to hot and they called me a bunch of names. If people want to load that hot that's fine by me, but they better understand the risks of doing it.

 

[Tom071]

Cool! Everybody praises the .30-06 Cartridge over the .308 Win., if the .30-06 is such a 'much better round' and the .308 is just a 'necked-down .30-06', why is the .308 the #1 Caliber used by S.E.A.L. Team 6 and U.S. Marine Snipers and not the .30-06? Do you think the pros would use the lesser cartridge for their Paratroopers and Snipers? I don't know what're up with those people, my dad+brother shoot .30-06s, I can top them with my Model Six for Deer and Bear.

The main reason is that the .308 (or the 7.62mm) is a standard nato round, where as the 30-06 is not, meaning the availability through military channels both forign and domestic is far greater. BC wise both rounds are the same, but you can get slightly higher velocities from the 30-06.

 

[TERMINATOR]

Jo,
The .308 Win is a very popular calibre here in South Africa and will smash any of the above listed animals in their tracks. I myself also have a .308 Win, and will use it on any plains game animal out there. Remember, shot placement is the most important factor here.

Best Regards
Marius

So I guess my 7mm-08 will do the job on Nyala, Bushbuck, Blesbok, Mtn Reedbuck and BlueWB then!

Hopefully I see a monster impala in our spare time!

The only animal on my list that I was concerned about (as far as the 7mm-08 being enough gun) was the BlueWB.