30-06 vs 300 Win Mag

[Denvir Tire]

I"m with Velo Dog on this, rent a rifle from the PH, enjoy the airport experience hassle free, and just have fun.
The PH will provide you the correct bullet and launcher for what your doing, he does it for a living.
The shooter is the key to the hunt, not the hardware.

 

[Von S.]

10% of the fishermen catch 90% of all fish.

And that is as true as the scenario that plays out at thousands of hunting camps each and every year.

A kid pulls out a brand new bolt gun in 30-378 Weatherby Magnum, and there's a comment from a guy shooting a 300 Weatherby stating that that is just as good and is what he needs. Then the guy with the 300 Winchester chimes in stating that his is just as good as the Weatherby. Mister Beer belly states that his 06 is every bit as good as the win mag. The 308 guy chimes in that his 30 calliber offering is just as powerful as the 06. The guy with the 30-30 stands up mumbles something about horse shit then staggers outside and simultaneously pukes, shits, pisses, shoots two snot balls out his nose and ejects enough wax out of his ears to start a candle shop and never spilled his beer.

Let's face some irrefutable facts here.

The faster the bullet goes, the further it will go, the harder it will hit. There is simply no discussion on this. There is no wiggle room.

As for anyone wishing to relieve their welled up tear bags on the fact that the bigger the powder charge, the heavier the bullet, the lighter the rifle will cause greater recoil I will concede that you are correct in your observation and will suggest that you stay with a smaller dog to let off your chain , and leave werewolf's to those who can handle them without dropping water.

None the above calibers are equal to the others.

 

[Bushpig4Ever]

I"m with Velo Dog on this, rent a rifle from the PH, enjoy the airport experience hassle free, and just have fun.
The PH will provide you the correct bullet and launcher for what your doing, he does it for a living.
The shooter is the key to the hunt, not the hardware.

Some weeks ago I hunted buffalo in Zimbabwe. Ok, I didn‘t see a single buff! With me was another hunter, he had no rifle with him so he rented one from the PH. Both PH‘s telescopes were damaged, that didn‘t bother the PH in the least.

"Enjoy and have fun.“ Well, the hunter had no fun whatsoever. He wounded a buffalo, after that he was afraid of using that rifle again so he stopped hunting. Both were crap, the PH and his rifles.

 

[sgt_zim]

10% of the fishermen catch 90% of all fish.

And that is as true as the scenario that plays out at thousands of hunting camps each and every year.

A kid pulls out a brand new bolt gun in 30-378 Weatherby Magnum, and there's a comment from a guy shooting a 300 Weatherby stating that that is just as good and is what he needs. Then the guy with the 300 Winchester chimes in stating that his is just as good as the Weatherby. Mister Beer belly states that his 06 is every bit as good as the win mag. The 308 guy chimes in that his 30 calliber offering is just as powerful as the 06. The guy with the 30-30 stands up mumbles something about horse shit then staggers outside and simultaneously pukes, shits, pisses, shoots two snot balls out his nose and ejects enough wax out of his ears to start a candle shop and never spilled his beer.

Let's face some irrefutable facts here.

The faster the bullet goes, the further it will go, the harder it will hit. There is simply no discussion on this. There is no wiggle room.

As for anyone wishing to relieve their welled up tear bags on the fact that the bigger the powder charge, the heavier the bullet, the lighter the rifle will cause greater recoil I will concede that you are correct in your observation and will suggest that you stay with a smaller dog to let off your chain , and leave werewolf's to those who can handle them without dropping water.

None the above calibers are equal to the others.

In the areas in Louisiana and Texas where I hunt, it's generally the case that only people with more money than sense go for the really souped up magnum 30s. It's great you can shoot a 200 gr bullet out of a 30-378 at 3200 fps, but all I see in that scenario is a lot of ruined, blood-shot meat. If the goal is to actually put venison or pork in the freezer and shots will rarely exceed 100-150 yards, the magnums are a poor choice. Magnums certainly have their place, but that mostly isn't east of the Mississippi River. More, most hunters aren't skilled enough at long range for a magnum to be of any utility. They practice at 100 or, at most 200, yards because there mostly aren't any places they hunt where they need the skill to shoot farther.

In almost 40 years of hunting white tails and pigs, I've killed more than I can remember, and the longest shot I've ever taken is about 185 yards. That may be a slight stretch for a 30-30, but .308 Win and 30-06 are more than adequate at that distance. Most of my kills are between 25 and 75 yards. Most of the animals I shoot are between 50 and 200 lbs. In all of that time, I've recovered exactly one bullet.

Why would anyone want a magnum 30 for those hunting conditions? There's a solid reason why 270, .308, and 30-06 are the three most popular cartridges in the US - they do efficiently and precisely what most hunters require of them.

If you feel like you need to use a magnum in such scenarios, have it. Your condescension is getting old.

 

[Von S.]

In the areas in Louisiana and Texas where I hunt, it's generally the case that only people with more money than sense go for the really souped up magnum 30s. It's great you can shoot a 200 gr bullet out of a 30-378 at 3200 fps, but all I see in that scenario is a lot of ruined, blood-shot meat. If the goal is to actually put venison or pork in the freezer and shots will rarely exceed 100-150 yards, the magnums are a poor choice. Magnums certainly have their place, but that mostly isn't east of the Mississippi River. More, most hunters aren't skilled enough at long range for a magnum to be of any utility. They practice at 100 or, at most 200, yards because there mostly aren't any places they hunt where they need the skill to shoot farther.

In almost 40 years of hunting white tails and pigs, I've killed more than I can remember, and the longest shot I've ever taken is about 185 yards. That may be a slight stretch for a 30-30, but .308 Win and 30-06 are more than adequate at that distance. Most of my kills are between 25 and 75 yards. Most of the animals I shoot are between 50 and 200 lbs. In all of that time, I've recovered exactly one bullet.

Why would anyone want a magnum 30 for those hunting conditions? There's a solid reason why 270, .308, and 30-06 are the three most popular cartridges in the US - they do efficiently and precisely what most hunters require of them.

If you feel like you need to use a magnum in such scenarios, have it. Your condescension is getting old.

Wow Zim,

I don't know how you extracted " condescension" from my post, unless it is that I don't lockstep with all of your views in "The world according to Zim"?

To me I could care less what anyone shoots anything with at anytime anywhere in the world. You seem to make it a habit of telling everyone wat to shoot everything with. But I enjoy opinions from everyone.

The last deer I dropped in its tracks was hit with a 308 with a 125 gr bullet. The last pigs I shot were with a 762x39. So no Magnum there Zim.

My thought is if a guy wants to shoot a deer with a 50 caliber BMG that's his right. At least I can't see the gunshot parts running off. As well as if he wants to shoot it with a 17 Remington that's his right too! I would suggest that he becomes a marksman first and skulls it, but either way I won't be loosing any sleep.

As far as hunting in Texas goes I have lifelong friends down there who have sections like most people have pennies. Lots of great hunting not close in and at some super long distances and it appears that the whole crew has some very impressive magnums that they shoot and hit with. My favorite deer rifles down there are 264 win mag, 25-06 AI, 250-3000 lever gun and a 250 Savage AI in a bolt gun. All extremely accurate and tight.

No speed goat, no whitail deer, no Piggie, no mule deer has ever gotten away. I am proud of that and have taken my time to get the right shot and have let what many people would consider trophies walk away when I could not.

In the 60+ years that I be been dropping white tailed deer my longest shot was farther than many people are willing to walk to pull a hundred dollar bill from a money tree with a 30-338 Winchester and the closest was about 6 feet with a 9mm.

And with that Zim maybe you should go back and re-read what I wrote and point out exactly where in my last post where "the condescension" you claim I projected is at exactly.

That is if out have enough time hen you are not telling people what they should use?

 

[IvW]

My question is, do you think there is an advantage to a 300 for plains game, that justifies the extra recoil of this round compared to the 30-06? I am very comfortable with a 30-06, and i can shoot a 300, but honestly, it is less pleasant, particularly from prone. I have read some people say there isn't any real world advantage, and that the 30-06 can do anything the 300 can, particularly given the shorter ranges of most african plains game shots. What do those with experience think? Thank you all.

Both are good calibers.

I am very comfortable with a 30-06, and i can shoot a 300, but honestly, it is less pleasant,

There is your answer. Take the rifle you are most comfortable with.

With the correct bullet for the intended game you can hunt all the African PG with the 30-06, all the way up to Giraffe.

Many DG have been culled with a 30-06 using 220 gr bullets, including hippo on land at night.

Honestly between these two calibers, you need to decide yourself which one you are more comfortable with and which one you shoot best.

That is the rifle to take, not the one that seems to be better on paper.

 

[flat8]

Ive got multiple 308's, a 30-06, and a 300 H&H all in the safe.. all can shoot the same 165 TTSX that I like extremely well...

But each rifle plays a different role in my battery...

Of these, where do you think the .300 H&H works best?

 

[sgt_zim]

and will suggest that you stay with a smaller dog to let off your chain , and leave werewolf's to those who can handle them without dropping water

If you think that isn't condescending, perhaps you should have spent more time studying vocabulary in elementary school.

I haven't told anyone what to use. If my writing that using a magnum 30 on white tails and pigs at short range doesn't confer any advantages over non-magnums is "telling people what to do," perhaps a reading comprehension course might also be in order.

You're boorish, and I'm done with you.

 

[mdwest]

Of these, where do you think the .300 H&H works best?

There are situations where a 30 mag is the min allowable caliber to hunt (guided nilgai hunt in tx for example...many outfitters require a 30 mag minimum)...

If I were hunting somewhere that I believed shots might be stretched out a bit (dakota plains for example.. or the Kalahari) it would likely get picked before the 308 or 30-06..

Or if I were chasing particularly large PG (eland) or NA DG (brown bear), the 300 would likely get picked up instead of the 308 or 30-06 (although I admit the 300 wouldn’t be my first choice for a griz.. I’d likely take my 375 instead.. but certainly lots and lots of brownies have been dropped by 300’s)

 

[flat8]

There are situations where a 30 mag is the min allowable caliber to hunt (guided nilgai hunt in tx for example...many outfitters require a 30 mag minimum)...

If I were hunting somewhere that I believed shots might be stretched out a bit (dakota plains for example.. or the Kalahari) it would likely get picked before the 308 or 30-06..

Or if I were chasing particularly large PG (eland) or NA DG (brown bear), the 300 would likely get picked up instead of the 308 or 30-06 (although I admit the 300 wouldn’t be my first choice for a griz.. I’d likely take my 375 instead.. but certainly lots and lots of brownies have been dropped by 300’s)

Thanks for the feedback. I shot a fallow deer with a borrowed .300 H&H and have tried to justify adding one alongside my .300 Win Mag, .300 WSM (no overlap there!) and .30-06 ever since. An elegant and beautiful round....

 

[Von S.]

Zim,

Your answer is what was expected.

More than once I have offered that I wonder why people use magnums to shoot deer at close range, but have come to the conclusion that it makes no sense for anyone to care why, it is what they want and that is all the reason they need.

Now you have a nice day.

 

[IvW]

mumbles something about horse shit then staggers outside and simultaneously pukes, shits, pisses, shoots two snot balls out his nose and ejects enough wax out of his ears to start a candle shop and never spilled his beer.

Perhaps that is part of the problem.

Let's face some irrefutable facts here.

The faster the bullet goes, the further it will go, the harder it will hit. There is simply no discussion on this. There is no wiggle room.

True.

However, when comparing the 30-06 vs 300 Win Mag, as this is the OP's question, there is a lot of discussion and a lot of wiggle room.

He is very comfortable with his 30-06 not so with the 300 WM(as he states).

Does he need the extra velocity and recoil and does he need to worry about that when he needs to take a prone shot over a rock at a possible up or down hill shot with the 300 WM if he is not comfortable with it?

Most certainly not, he will be better off with the 30-06, he will aim better, and shoot better because he is not concerned with the recoil.

If he is aiming with that same aiming position, the thought will go through his mind how is the 300 WM going to recoil and just there the shot placement could go south.

For the OP he has answered his own question and the obvious choice for his needs would be the 30-06.

As for snot noses using 30-378 Weatherby's or a user of a 30-30 mumbling horse shit then staggers outside and simultaneously pukes, shits, pisses, shoots two snot balls out his nose and ejects enough wax out of his ears to start a candle shop and never spilled his beer, it is irrelevant to the OP's question and I ques they can use whatever floats their boat.

MOST hunters are better off with rifles and cartridges they shoot well, that should be the main criteria when deciding what rifle to take to Africa for PG, not the one you are not comfortable with! Assuming of course it is in a legal caliber which both the 30-06 and 300 WM are.

Take the gun you are comfortable with and shoot well and with premium grade bullets you will be fine.

 

[JPbowhunter]

10% of the fishermen catch 90% of all fish.

And that is as true as the scenario that plays out at thousands of hunting camps each and every year.

A kid pulls out a brand new bolt gun in 30-378 Weatherby Magnum, and there's a comment from a guy shooting a 300 Weatherby stating that that is just as good and is what he needs. Then the guy with the 300 Winchester chimes in stating that his is just as good as the Weatherby. Mister Beer belly states that his 06 is every bit as good as the win mag. The 308 guy chimes in that his 30 calliber offering is just as powerful as the 06. The guy with the 30-30 stands up mumbles something about horse shit then staggers outside and simultaneously pukes, shits, pisses, shoots two snot balls out his nose and ejects enough wax out of his ears to start a candle shop and never spilled his beer.

Let's face some irrefutable facts here.

The faster the bullet goes, the further it will go, the harder it will hit. There is simply no discussion on this. There is no wiggle room.

As for anyone wishing to relieve their welled up tear bags on the fact that the bigger the powder charge, the heavier the bullet, the lighter the rifle will cause greater recoil I will concede that you are correct in your observation and will suggest that you stay with a smaller dog to let off your chain , and leave werewolf's to those who can handle them without dropping water.

None the above calibers are equal to the others.

If i want to buy a beer that's $5 and i have a $10 note and a $50 note no one would argue it's the same thing. But they'll both get me over the line on the beer.

I spent probably 5 years banging on about magnums and the advantage in velocity, energy etc. In the end i saw enough animals dying just as dead from an 06 as they were from my 300wm and 7mmRM. I sold both and now own an '06.

Real world, the figures mean nothing in terms of making animals dead within 500m.

 

[Von S.]

JP

The scenerio of the guys telling one another that their choice of rounds to hunt with does play out all the time. I personally have never really cared what anyone other than me shoots anything with and yes many do go out " over gunned " but no skin off my nose . And some go out undergunned as well.

If a guy goes out with a 243 that he is pretty good with for an Australian water buffalo is he really better off than a guy who goes out with a 375 that he isn't a good shot with?

My thought is that maybe he need to think it through some more, but if he doesn't, that's his choice...not mine.

When I moved to africa almost 5 decades ago I was given two 03's and ammo. One was still in the 06 caliber, the other was barreled for a 458. A can of 30-06 AP rounds and the 458 came with a can of fmj's.

Did the 06 kill dangerous game? Yes it did, but that really doesn't make it a dangerous game round. And AP rounds never seemed very good for much other than penatration, I bought expanding bullets for PG and that was a wise choice.

When I bought a ,375 with a scope that's what I carried.

Its all a matter of personal choice.

 

[IvW]

If a guy goes out with a 243 that he is pretty good with for an Australian water buffalo is he really better off than a guy who goes out with a 375 that he isn't a good shot with?

Comparing a 243 WM to a 375 H&H for use on Asian water buffalo is trying to compare chalk with cheese!! Ridiculous to be quite frank. What is your point?

If the only caliber he is comfortable with is a 243 he should rather be hunting kangaroos and not DG!

Rather stick to the OP's original question and two calibers he was asking about for the intended purpose.

What have that to do with comparing a 30-06 to a 300 WM for plains game hunting in Africa?

 

[huntinlabs]

If i want to buy a beer that's $5 and i have a $10 note and a $50 note no one would argue it's the same thing. But they'll both get me over the line on the beer.

I spent probably 5 years banging on about magnums and the advantage in velocity, energy etc. In the end i saw enough animals dying just as dead from an 06 as they were from my 300wm and 7mmRM. I sold both and now own an '06.

Real world, the figures mean nothing in terms of making animals dead within 500m.

Unless it is a larger animal like an elk or moose and you hit bone. The figures could mean a wonded animal walking away or a dead animal. Of course that is using your 500m criteria.

 

[sgt_zim]

Unless it is a larger animal like an elk or moose and you hit bone. The figures could mean a wonded animal walking away or a dead animal. Of course that is using your 500m criteria.

The only question is "will the bullet expand and penetrate?".

Everything else is a good fireside chat, but nothing more.

 

[V.Veritas]

I’ll just mention a piece of advice I received from a long range shooting instructor:
“For North America hunting, if you can shoot straight you don’t need a magnum. If you can’t shoot straight, a magnum won’t help.”

I agree and I own them both just because I like them.

 

[tarbe]

I am a bit of a cartridge snob...so while I think the 300 H&H is the bomb, I would not own a 300 Winchester (short necks are for wrestlers! ).

If I could own only one 30 caliber rifle for the rest of my life, it would probably be a 30-06 (with apologies to Cody).

There isn't anything I would do with a 30 that the '06 can't do perfectly fine!

Someone else, with differing experiences and desires may well come up with a different answer!

"Any gun good shoot'um good" (within reason, of course).