280 Remington, how boring

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

well if any cartridge responds to reloading, this is it.
feed it the right bullets and powder for the job and don't ask it things unfairly, and boredom levels are high.
140 at 3000, 150 at 2900, 160 at 2800 is easy to do safely with thought and correct powder choice.
and don't overlook the 120s for some applications approaching 3200.
at some time in history it was the most chambered custom rifle.
factory loads are saami spec at lower pressures than 270 win, but the cases will take the same.
bruce.

Bruce moulds
The 280 is like any of the old Remington cartridges e.g. 257 Roberts, 280, 35 Whelen all under loaded by the factory for some silly reason all do well with proper reloading as you and others have found out.
Keep being boring it's fun it works
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It is the boring calibres which satisfy us the best. Take for example , my personal favorite plains game cartridge , the time tested .30-06 Springfield. Every now and then , l come across a book or magazine , where a few self proclaimed " gun writers " rant against this cartridge by calling it old fashioned , obsolete and other unsavory things .
They belittle the .30-06 Springfield to praise some new trendy cartridge of the day ( in recent times , l am seeing that the 6.5 Creedmoor is getting praised EVERYWHERE ) . Yet trendy cartridges disappear after the fad dies down and the old time tested favorites remain .
I do not think the .30-06 Springfield will ever die , as long as hunters have good taste .

Excellent shooting with your .280 Remington calibre rifle . What make and model , is it ?

Friend Ponton
They got old because they keep on working and we know they work.
Old cartridges are like older people, they both keep working and we can learn a lot from them. New and flashy loses it shine and fades away. Old just keeps going without the hooray it has already proven itself. It just needs others to realize it.
Cheers my friend
Bob Nelson

 

[bruce moulds]

Winchester, Remington, browning, and others still make models in 280 rem.
this says that there is a steady following for the cartridge.
ruger has made the 77 and no 1 in 280.
at one time it was the most popular custom rifle chambering.
you don't see too many for sale second hand, suggesting that those who have them continue to use them.
mostly 280s are built as proper hunting rifles, as opposed to cheats rifles, promoted to avoid the need for hunting by shooting at long range. (for wankers)
in other words, rifles meant for real hunters.
bruce.

 

[Major Khan]

Friend Ponton
They got old because they keep on working and we know they work.
Old cartridges are like older people, they both keep working and we can learn a lot from them. New and flashy loses it shine and fades away. Old just keeps going without the hooray it has already proven itself. It just needs others to realize it.
Cheers my friend
Bob Nelson

Oh , do not get me started , Bob. These days , EVERY fire arms related magazine which l read keeps going on and on and on , endlessly about the virtues of the 6.5 Creedmoor calibre and about how it makes other calibres like the .30-06 Springfield or the .308 Winchester obsolete. Sigh .

 

[bruce moulds]

bob, the 257 Roberts was indeed underloaded.
interestinly, if you ackley improve it it is similar to the 25/06.
the 7x57, parent of the 257, similarly improved come near the 280.
the 2 older cases have a lot of body taper, so gain a lot from ackley treatment.
even the 257 Roberts +p ammo is not loaded to full potential, just more than original Roberts.
the only thing against ackley cases is that they can be harder to make feed in controlled round actions.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Oh , do not get me started , Bob. These days , EVERY fire arms related magazine which l read keeps going on and on and on , endlessly about the virtues of the 6.5 Creedmoor calibre and about how it makes other calibres like the .30-06 Springfield or the .308 Winchester obsolete. Sigh .

Friend Ponton
I feel the same. I was at the range a while back and this young fella was raving about his 1 inch 5 shot target at 200yards with a massive great scope and his 6.5 crudmore. I showed him my target that had a smaller group than his. He immediately ask what load I was using in my crudmore. When I showed him my M17 converted to 25/303Epps Newton improved and told him what it was doing balisticly he walked off in disgust. I was only using a 3 to 9 x40 scope.
Not bad for a 70 year old wildcat

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Friend Ponton

My 105 year old M17 done up a bit

70 year Old wildcat modified to my specs

200yard target
Not to bad for an old fella, using an enen older cartridge in an even older rifle.
I can't see the sense in New with these results.
Cheers my Friend
Bob Nelson

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

bob, the 257 Roberts was indeed underloaded.
interestinly, if you ackley improve it it is similar to the 25/06.
the 7x57, parent of the 257, similarly improved come near the 280.
the 2 older cases have a lot of body taper, so gain a lot from ackley treatment.
even the 257 Roberts +p ammo is not loaded to full potential, just more than original Roberts.
the only thing against ackley cases is that they can be harder to make feed in controlled round actions.
bruce.

Bruce moulds
My own creation based on a very modified 303 case resized to 25 cal launches a,100 grain Barnes ttsx at a chronoed 3,600+ fps and a,117gn hornaday SST at 3,300+ fps using hogdon superformance and does so safely.
Cheers mate
Bob Nelson

 

[Major Khan]

Friend Ponton View attachment 330136
My 105 year old M17 done up a bit
View attachment 330137
70 year Old wildcat modified to my specsView attachment 330138
200yard target
Not to bad for an old fella, using an enen older cartridge in an even older rifle.
I can't see the sense in New with these results.
Cheers my Friend
Bob Nelson

You know ... there is a little known fact about that famous British gun maker , Holland & Holland , Bob . Nowadays , all the British gun makers use Mayfair magnum Mauser actions to build their bolt rifles . However , during my time , l had observed countless Holland & Holland bolt rifles , built on Enfield Model 1917 actions ( especially the 1s chambered in .375 Holland & Holland magnum ) . The customer in those days could choose whether they desired Holland & Holland to build their bolt rifles on salvaged pre World War 2 military surplus Mauser 98 actions or Enfield 1917 actions or Mauser Model 66 push feed actions . That speaks volumes about the quality of the Enfield 1917 action .I have never seen even 1 give any sort of reliability problems in the field .
Sadly after 1958 , Holland & Holland ceased to use the Enfield Model 1917 action .

 

[bruce moulds]

well we all have heard of the crudmoor consistently delivering 10 shot groups of 1/4 moa at all ranges from 100 to 1000 yds.
funny how I can't get 2 fclass rifles, custom built on benchrest actions and put together by 2 of australias best gunsmiths to do this consistently with handlads that have been extensively worked up, neckturned batched cases, absolutely best seating depth, custom dies, etc.
and I have never seen any other fclass rifle do it either.
sometimes a lucky group, but not consistent.
this suggests that most of the claims come from people who have not done much accuracy shooting, or are wankers.
of course the mighty advertising machine thrives on the ones who don't know.
add to this the need to deliver enough energy, and terminal bullet performance, and modern advertising combined with the crudmoor round is one of the most inhumane things on the planet in this era.
bruce.

 

[bruce moulds]

khan, some of those m17 actions were turned from the beast into beauty.
bruce.

 

[Major Khan]

khan, some of those m17 actions were turned from the beast into beauty.
bruce.

That is true , Bruce . They were genuine magnum length actions . I have read a few reports , however , of some of the Enfield Model 1917 actions manufactured by the Eddystone factory to be brittle. I never saw anything like this , in my career , however. Idle gossip , perhaps ?
However , where there is smoke , there is always a fire.

 

[bruce moulds]

I have heard the same thing, but have no personal experience.
ackley commented on it during his action blowup tests.
something to do with heat treatment.
I have seen one with a hillver bridge mount arc welded to the receiver, and it never blew up, but I would not like to own such a thing.
bruce.

 

[Tra3]

well we all have heard of the crudmoor consistently delivering 10 shot groups of 1/4 moa at all ranges from 100 to 1000 yds.
funny how I can't get 2 fclass rifles, custom built on benchrest actions and put together by 2 of australias best gunsmiths to do this consistently with handlads that have been extensively worked up, neckturned batched cases, absolutely best seating depth, custom dies, etc.
and I have never seen any other fclass rifle do it either.
sometimes a lucky group, but not consistent.
this suggests that most of the claims come from people who have not done much accuracy shooting, or are wankers.
of course the mighty advertising machine thrives on the ones who don't know.
add to this the need to deliver enough energy, and terminal bullet performance, and modern advertising combined with the crudmoor round is one of the most inhumane things on the planet in this era.
bruce.

I think most shooters cannot shoot a 1” group at 100 yards even if their rifle can. Definitely most shooters cannot get that accuracy whey they move to recoil at or above a .30-06. The 6.5CM has light recoil, which is likely the reason people like it. The 6.5CM has its benefit to the shooting community to get people out shooting.
When shooting at a busy range I like to step back from the line and use my spotting scope to check targets. It is eye opening to see how big the group sizes are. Even the fancy folks that show up are not generally shooting groups you see published in marketing materials.

I am no expert, and don’t claim to be. The practical knowledge gained from seeing others shoot makes me really respect a 1” group posted by a member here. Even more so when it is a big caliber!

@bruce moulds did you eat any backstrap off that deer yet?

 

[Standard Velocity]

Friend Ponton View attachment 330139
My 105 year old M17 done up a bit
View attachment 330140
70 year Old wildcat modified to my specsView attachment 330138
200yard target
Not to bad for an old fella, using an enen older cartridge in an even older rifle.
I can't see the sense in New with these results.
Cheers my Friend
Bob Nelson

It’s good to have new cartridges but the manufacturers would have us believe everything new makes everything old obsolete. It’s good that some of these new designs are taking the developments of wildcatters from the last 100 years into consideration.

The trend towards 600 yard tacticool whizzbangs is not for me but, more importantly, has created a dangerous level of hubris in regards to taking game. The 6.5 Creedmoor is not a 600 yard elk rifle. Misleading ballistics claims have always been part of marketing new cartridges but the savvy consumer should be able to read a ballistics table and understand the limitations of available projectiles.

We are now called “fudds” because we own walnut and blued steel, use 3x9 scopes and don’t dial in dope to shoot a deer. To be sure there are ill informed and superstitious amongst us as well. I was told my 308 wouldn’t kill a deer because it’s a military cartridge.

Learning the fundamentals of practical accuracy and understanding the real-world limitations of our tools is not as sexy as buying the newest super shooter and becoming an insta-sniper upon opening the box.

Last week a guy in the gun store couldn’t understand why anyone would want the rifle I was looking at. It didn’t even have a removable magazine or a picatinny rail. The rifle was a well sporterized Mauser.

 

[Major Khan]

It’s good to have new cartridges but the manufacturers would have us believe everything new makes everything old obsolete. It’s good that some of these new designs are taking the developments of wildcatters from the last 100 years into consideration.

The trend towards 600 yard tacticool whizzbangs is not for me but, more importantly, has created a dangerous level of hubris in regards to taking game. The 6.5 Creedmoor is not a 600 yard elk rifle. Misleading ballistics claims have always been part of marketing new cartridges but the savvy consumer should be able to read a ballistics table and understand the limitations of available projectiles.

We are now called “fudds” because we own walnut and blued steel, use 3x9 scopes and don’t dial in dope to shoot a deer. To be sure there are ill informed and superstitious amongst us as well. I was told my 308 wouldn’t kill a deer because it’s a military cartridge.

Learning the fundamentals of practical accuracy and understanding the real-world limitations of our tools is not as sexy as buying the newest super shooter and becoming an insta-sniper upon opening the box.

Last week a guy in the gun store couldn’t understand why anyone would want the rifle I was looking at. It didn’t even have a removable magazine or a picatinny rail. The rifle was a well sporterized Mauser.

I know exactly how you feel , Standard Velocity. I visited my local gun shop today to purchase some new shot gun cartridges for goose season .

These 2 beautiful side by side 12 Bore Isaac Hollis exposed hammer shot guns have been collecting dust in the display case for close to 30 years now . They have 2.75 inch chambers , are proofed for smokeless powder and have improved modified chokes in the left barrels and improved cylinder chokes in the right barrels . They are in pristine condition , despite having been made prior to 1947 .
Yet younger sports men do not want them . The young gentlemen of Bangladesh all want a 3.5 inch chamber multi choke semi automatic shot gun for bird hunting and think that you cannot hunt birds with a side by side shot gun . Some day , l do hope that a worthy owner purchases them ... a hunter who values old world English craftsmanship.

 

[lwaters]

Bruce moulds
The 280 is like any of the old Remington cartridges e.g. 257 Roberts, 280, 35 Whelen all under loaded by the factory for some silly reason all do well with proper reloading as you and others have found out.
Keep being boring it's fun it works
Cheers mate Bob

280 was loaded to lower pressure than the 270 to function in their semi auto which was eventually chambered for the 270.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

That’s a nice looking gun shop Major. Are those BRNO bolt action rim fires?

 

[Major Khan]

That’s a nice looking gun shop Major. Are those BRNO bolt action rim fires?

Why yes , Master Smith . This is " Emdaad Arms " ... Bangladesh's oldest fire arms shop , established in 1972 .

The hand guns stay locked inside the cabinets at the bottom .
Kawshik purchased a BRNO .22 Long Rifle calibre bolt rifle for his niece from this very shop around 17 years ago .

I purchased some new shot gun cartridges from there today .

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It’s good to have new cartridges but the manufacturers would have us believe everything new makes everything old obsolete. It’s good that some of these new designs are taking the developments of wildcatters from the last 100 years into consideration.

The trend towards 600 yard tacticool whizzbangs is not for me but, more importantly, has created a dangerous level of hubris in regards to taking game. The 6.5 Creedmoor is not a 600 yard elk rifle. Misleading ballistics claims have always been part of marketing new cartridges but the savvy consumer should be able to read a ballistics table and understand the limitations of available projectiles.

We are now called “fudds” because we own walnut and blued steel, use 3x9 scopes and don’t dial in dope to shoot a deer. To be sure there are ill informed and superstitious amongst us as well. I was told my 308 wouldn’t kill a deer because it’s a military cartridge.

Learning the fundamentals of practical accuracy and understanding the real-world limitations of our tools is not as sexy as buying the newest super shooter and becoming an insta-sniper upon opening the box.

Last week a guy in the gun store couldn’t understand why anyone would want the rifle I was looking at. It didn’t even have a removable magazine or a picatinny rail. The rifle was a well sporterized Mauser.

Standard Velocity
If the 308 won't kill deer because it's a military cartridge the the 06,,303,6 4x55 or the 7x57 because they were military cartridges.
Funny that they all do and do it well
Cheers mate Bob