257 Roberts vs 25-06

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Ha! Ha! Ha! Why do you think I'm on here at 0 Dark Thirty my time on my first of two days off. Well Bob, I'm kind of "punch drunk". After getting off work, now yesterday and sleeping for three hours, I got up and drove for about an hour and then hunted pheasants all day until 1630 with my crazy father in law and a brother in law. I was looking for a lingum tunnel to crawl into, but none to be found. So now, I'm on here harassing you and other AH members because I'm WIDE awake, cause I'm normally at work right now! So, suffer my indulgences! Ha! Ha!

@CoElkHunter
Mate nothing half a bottle of Bundy won't fix.
Bob

 

[shark_za]

The 25-08 does seem to be missing in the lineup.
Sabi rifles sold the .270 Sabi (270-08 with 150gr optimized for bushveld) but a 120gr .257 bullet in that case would go down a treat for the small things at good ranges.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The 25-08 does seem to be missing in the lineup.
Sabi rifles sold the .270 Sabi (270-08 with 150gr optimized for bushveld) but a 120gr .257 bullet in that case would go down a treat for the small things at good ranges.

@shark_za
Mate that one is old hat here in OZ it was called the 25 Souper. Didn't do anything the Roberts did better already. Still a bucket load better than the 243.
Bob

 

[008]

Still working on the man bun, but pretty happy so far with the 6.5.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Still working on the man bun, but pretty happy so far with the 6.5.

Nice set up!

 

[CoElkHunter]

@shark_za
Mate that one is old hat here in OZ it was called the 25 Souper. Didn't do anything the Roberts did better already. Still a bucket load better than the 243.
Bob

Bob, I’m confused (easily)? I thought you said a necked up .243 to .25 is the .25 Souper? Maybe the necked down.308 to .25 is the .25 Souper Douper?
CEH

 

[Nevada Mike]

Bob, I’m confused (easily)? I thought you said a necked up .243 to .25 is the .25 Souper? Maybe the necked down.308 to .25 is the .25 Souper Douper?
CEH

Same basic case. What is the difference?

 

[Rocco490]

I am a fan of the 308 case especially loaded with 7mm or 308 bullets. For quarter bore bullets though I would rather have a 257 roberts or 25-06, awesome cartridges and can get factory loaded ammo

 

[CoElkHunter]

Same basic case. What is the difference?

Very true! But, it seems wildcatted cartridges have specific names given to them by the first guy who created (or thinks he was the first) the “new” cartridge?

 

[JimP]

Very true! But, it seems wildcatted cartridges have specific names given to them by the first guy who created (or thinks he was the first) the “new” cartridge?

What you need to do is to take a factory available cartridge case, change the shoulder angle a bit, neck it up or down to a different caliber, then send the dimensions to a die manufacture to get a loading die, get a reamer for the new cartridge and put your name on it. Start loading it up and you are now wildcatting.

 

[CoElkHunter]

What you need to do is to take a factory available cartridge case, change the shoulder angle a bit, neck it up or down to a different caliber, then send the dimensions to a die manufacture to get a loading die, get a reamer for the new cartridge and put your name on it. Start loading it up and you are now wildcatting.

It’s amazing when one looks at JUST the Redding die manufacture’s available custom die sets. I hadn’t realized how many wildcat cartridges are out there? Maybe hundreds? WAY TOO MANY gunsmiths, machinists, reloading hobbyists, etc, with WAY TOO MUCH time on their hands over the years. It’s not as though wildcatting is a profit making venture vs. a time consuming and potentially expensive “adventure”. I’m intrigued by it, but I’m lucky when I have a LITTLE time to do some reloading? My hats off to the wildcatters’ perseverance though!

 

[JimP]

I believe that it was back in the late 70's when I read a article in one of the gun magazines about wildcatting. They claimed that just about every combination had been tried with varying and mixed results. However I believe that this was with the cartridges that were available at the time which did include quite a few that some of the newer rounds are based on. But when you have to put out a few thousand dollars for several sets of dies to bring a large case down to a smaller one with a different caliber it gets real expensive real quick.

A lot of the wildcats were made by using standard dies of different calibers and cartridges where you worked your brass case down to what you wanted in a number of steps and then had a final fire forming if needed. A lot of those who were developing these rounds were backyard machinist with lathes, and milling machines at their disposal to create their dream cartridge.

Back years ago I ventured into the world of wildcatting only to get out of it real quick. I did stick with a few wildcats that had dies available where all you needed to do was to come up with a barrel. I was using my Thompson Center Contender for these fun things. At the present I have two left. A .30 and a .357 Herrett. Both are based off of the .30-30 case that is shortened with a shoulder blown out by fire-forming. But at this time I get tired of manufacturing the brass for either one. I did have dreams of re-barreling a old Marlin Glenfield 30-30 to the .357 Herrett, I figured that it would make a great saddle rifle.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

What you need to do is to take a factory available cartridge case, change the shoulder angle a bit, neck it up or down to a different caliber, then send the dimensions to a die manufacture to get a loading die, get a reamer for the new cartridge and put your name on it. Start loading it up and you are now wildcatting.

@JimP
Then you end up with things like the 25/303 Epps Newton improved and the 35 Mitchell Express
Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

bob,
i wonder what a 7mm epps newton would do to your outlook on life.
you might not want the shoulder as far forward to get 1 caliber neck length.
this would reduce the need for the whelen while you shoulder heals, and allow you to hunt bigger stuff sooner.
bruce.

 

[CoElkHunter]

@JimP
Then you end up with things like the 25/303 Epps Newton improved and the 35 Mitchell Express
Bob
View attachment 388520

Bob,
But then you have to obtain the dies and a reamer? I think a lot of these wildcats were maybe based on “regionality” and out of necessity because there weren’t the availability of the cartridges and thus the brass cases we enjoy today. Back in the day, if you lived where .303, .30-06, 7mm, 8mm Mauser brass was available, you used the brass available available to neck up or down to create another cartridge, because that’s all that was available. I really find the history of wildcatting fascinating, but our forefathers did it out of necessity? With the current shortages of brass, maybe we’re headed back in time? Brush off your reamers and die sets! Ha! Ha! Ha!
CEH

 

[CoElkHunter]

I believe that it was back in the late 70's when I read a article in one of the gun magazines about wildcatting. They claimed that just about every combination had been tried with varying and mixed results. However I believe that this was with the cartridges that were available at the time which did include quite a few that some of the newer rounds are based on. But when you have to put out a few thousand dollars for several sets of dies to bring a large case down to a smaller one with a different caliber it gets real expensive real quick.

A lot of the wildcats were made by using standard dies of different calibers and cartridges where you worked your brass case down to what you wanted in a number of steps and then had a final fire forming if needed. A lot of those who were developing these rounds were backyard machinist with lathes, and milling machines at their disposal to create their dream cartridge.

Back years ago I ventured into the world of wildcatting only to get out of it real quick. I did stick with a few wildcats that had dies available where all you needed to do was to come up with a barrel. I was using my Thompson Center Contender for these fun things. At the present I have two left. A .30 and a .357 Herrett. Both are based off of the .30-30 case that is shortened with a shoulder blown out by fire-forming. But at this time I get tired of manufacturing the brass for either one. I did have dreams of re-barreling a old Marlin Glenfield 30-30 to the .357 Herrett, I figured that it would make a great saddle rifle.

Fred Huntington founded RCBS. He was a machinist who manufactured wildcat die sets. I’m sure Lee and Redding were wildcat machinists too. Today we do it for a hobby, but our predecessors did it out of at least some necessity. Anyway, the history of wildcatting is fascinating to me.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

bob,
i wonder what a 7mm epps newton would do to your outlook on life.
you might not want the shoulder as far forward to get 1 caliber neck length.
this would reduce the need for the whelen while you shoulder heals, and allow you to hunt bigger stuff sooner.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
Then I would have to un Newton it to make the neck longer. Sort of defeats the purpose. Have a look at my post in barrel lapping mate about the 25s. I ain't hunting buffalo so the 25 will do for everything else.
Bob.

 

[bruce moulds]

hey bob,
the 243 is underdone.
25 is the next caliber up.
if it is not marginal it must be horribly close.
a good 7mm just puts you in the comfort zone a little more.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

hey bob,
the 243 is underdone.
25 is the next caliber up.
if it is not marginal it must be horribly close.
a good 7mm just puts you in the comfort zone a little more.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
Yes it leads the 243 by a big margin equals the 270 and the 7mms have a slight margin over the 25 . So yes the 25 might be marginal to some you just have to pick your margin. In Australia my margin would be buff and camels.
All calibers can be called marginal it just has to be decided who is using it and what margin they are comfortable with.
The 375 has been called marginal but it still gets the job done.
Bob

 

[Nevada Mike]

The number of wildcat cartridges that are now 'factory' rounds is long and distinguished...

.22-250
7mm-08
6,5-284
280 Remington
.257 Roberts
.25-'06
.35 Whelen
and a bunch more.

I own a Ruger No.1 in 25-'06 (25" barrel) and a .257 Roberts. I like them both! the .257 is a 300 yard rifle, but the .25-'06 is great for those loooong shots on Coues deer and antelope. The 25s work well on coyotes, too.