1903 springfield

[sestoppelman]

Thank you. High number Springfield.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Ah he called back after doing more checking and is afraid of feeding issues. I have several 98 mausers. I wonder if I could build one of them into a DG rifle??

Sure you can. I did it. 404J fits that action perfectly. Duane Weibe sells a handy booklet for tips on converting standard action 98 Mauser to 375 H&H. Requires trimming just a bit off the locking ring. No big deal. The gun is designed with plenty of strength. For forty years Ruark's PH Harry Selby used a standard action Mauser in 416 Rigby which is an even longer cartridge requiring even more metal trimmed from the ring.

I am surprised your guy wouldn't bite converting the Springfield to 375. Wonder what the issue was? If I can make the rails on 8mm Mauser work for 404J, I'm surprised 1903's 30-06 rails won't work with 375's narrower diameter case.

 

[Jared640]

Sure you can. I did it. 404J fits that action perfectly. Duane Weibe sells a handy booklet for tips on converting standard action 98 Mauser to 375 H&H. Requires trimming just a bit off the locking ring. No big deal. The gun is designed with plenty of strength. For forty years Ruark's PH Harry Selby used a standard action Mauser in 416 Rigby which is an even longer cartridge requiring even more metal trimmed from the ring.

I am surprised your guy wouldn't bite converting the Springfield to 375. Wonder what the issue was? If I can make the rails on 8mm Mauser work for 404J, I'm surprised 1903's 30-06 rails won't work with 375's narrower diameter case.

I'm not completely sure he just said there would be feeding issues. I'm still on the hunt for somebody to do the work I think I would be a great rifle

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Two gunsmiths told me building a 404 on standard action 98 Mauser wasn't possible. But of course I knew it can be done because standard action is all Jefferey had to work with when they designed the cartridge. A third gunsmith agreed to put the barrel on but would not do the feeding mods so I did it. Very time consuming tedious work. Took me more than two days ... but I'd never done anything like that before.

 

[Jack Stevens]

I have an 03 springfield that has been sporterized. Id love to find somebody i could send it to and have it converted to 375 and have it refurbished. Do any of you recommend anyone?

Your Springfield is easily converted with just a re-barrel to .35 Whelen, also known as ‘the Poor Man’s Magnum.’ You’d have a wide range of .358” bullets to use on African game of 200, 225, 250, 275, and 300 grains. Same mag capacity as in .’06.

 

[Jared640]

Two gunsmiths told me building a 404 on standard action 98 Mauser wasn't possible. But of course I knew it can be done because standard action is all Jefferey had to work with when they designed the cartridge. A third gunsmith agreed to put the barrel on but would not do the feeding mods so I did it. Very time consuming tedious work. Took me more than two days ... but I'd never done anything like that before.

I may get on touch with you for tips on this type of work if it comes to that

 

[mgstucson]

I have 2 1903's in 35 Whelen and 35 Whelen AI, and a 98 Mauser in 375 Whelen AI. One of the 35 Whelen's is going to be converted to a 400 Whelen, and I may buy one more in 30-06.

While the 375 Whelen is certainly not the equal to the 375 H&H in modern iterations, it is fairly close to the 375 H&H from the early days, WITH HEAVY BULLETS. With a 300gr bullet, the 375 Whelen reportedly gets to 2400-2500fps. I have not verified this myself as I do not yet have dies for it. The H&H runs away from the Whelen as far as ballistics goes with lighter bullets due to much larger case capacity.

I also have a 375 Flanged, and a 9.3x74R in double rifles. Shooting 300gr projectiles in the 375 Whelen, the 375F, or the 9.3x74R are all so ballistically close I would call them identical. Same as the 9.3x62 as well, even though I don't have one of those. According to data I have found on the interweb, all 4 of these cartridges will get a 300gr projectile to, or very close to, 2400fps without much difficulty. Now all of these have been used with great success on DG in Africa for over a century, except the 375 Whelen. The 375 Whelen is the most obscure of the Whelen family, with most going for the 35 Whelen because they can get factory ammo, or the 400 Whelen because it is more powerful. When loaded to full capacity in modern strong actions, I consider the 35 Whelen, the 375 Whelen, and the 2 9.3's (366's) to have essentially equal terminal ballistics. The smaller calibers having SLIGHTLY better trajectories and penetration due to better BC's and SD's.

THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE BEING THE 375 WHELEN AND 375F ARE LEGAL FOR DG NEARLY EVERYWHERE IN AFRICA. THAT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE.

As others have suggested, if I wanted to build a DG rifle on an 03, I would end up where Griffin & Howe, Townsend Whelen, and Elmer Keith did. I would build a 400 Whelen and never look back. It has identical ballistics to the venerable 450/400, which is a very well respected DG cartridge for double rifles. If you just really want a 375 caliber, build a 375 Whelen and never look back.

The late Ed Stevenson, a well respected brown bear guide and year round hunting camp resident in Alaska for over 40 years highly recommended and often carried 375 Hawk/Scovill (375 Whelen AI equivalent) and the 400 Whelen, both in Browning 1895 lever actions , for brown bear PROTECTION AND BACKUP. He killed many charging brown bears with them. Not infrequently he used a hot loaded 45-70 in a short barreled Browning 1886 lever action, or a short barreled 1895 Marlin lever action. He had learned the hard way when carrying a Mod 70 in 375 H&H that one chest shot from a 375 H&H is not going to stop a charging Alaskan brown bear. He was mauled and seriously injured AFTER hitting a 10 foot brown bear with his 375 H&H that charged from close quarters while he and his hunting client were packing out the trophy of another 10 foot brown. After that for over a decade he settled on head shots for stopping shots, and found the Whelens strong enough for that and strong enough to break both shoulders and exit on broadside shots, and strong enough to fully penetrate and exit length wise on 10 foot brown bears. He also found the fast handling lever actions to be quicker to target than bigger bolt guns, and twice as fast for repeat shots than bolt guns.

For the rest of his career, he bet his life, and the lives of his clients, on a fast handling lever actions in Whelen cartridges of adequate power because it usually offered the best probability of multiple shots on a charging 1500 pound animal nearly as fast as a lion that would not turn or stop until it was dead or he was.

The point being is that the 375 Whelen and the 400 Whelen are legal for dangerous game in most of Africa, and as powerful as cartridges used on African dangerous game for a century or better, the 375F, the 9.3x62, the 9.3x74R, and the 450/400. The 400 Whelen is not far behind modern 404J ballistics, and probably equal to original 404J ballistics with the powders and projectiles from 100 years ago. The added bonus is that your 03 would be chambered in calibers originally developed in and for the 03, with the original intent 100 years ago to be the American answer to an African hunting rifle for the common man. I would not recommend any of them for stopping calibers in Africa, but would certainly hunt with them.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have thought of doing this with my BSA model D 1917 enfield sporter. I am a bit worried about the shoulder on the 400 whelen hence I would probably go with the 375 whelen. It would be my third 375 cal rifle so I have been dragging my feet. I really don't see the advantage over the 9.3x62 which I have two of already

@jruby
If you go with the Petrov version of the 400 Whelen ( has a slightly better shoulder for headspace) you will have a rifle equipment to the 450/400 and no one complains about its performance.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I think a 1917 or a 1914 would be better than the 1903 for a 375H&H length cartridge and they aren't that exspensive. I do realize we are talking about a 1903.

@jruby
A lot of old doughboys preferred the M17 over the 03 as a battle rifle.
The P14 and M17 have a big enough action to handle the length of the 375 H&H. You can even buy a 375 mag box already made for the Enfield already made of eBay.. The P14 bolt face is already suitable for magnum cartridges and fits the M17.
A lot of 375s were made on the Enfield action, dang even Holland and Holland used them for bespoke rifles.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I am looking at building 375 on my late wife's grandfather's P14. The only advantage over 1903 is P14 bolt face is already opened up. Might be a bit easier to modify the P14's separate magazine box. Safety is already in the right place on the side of the receiver. I am no fan of the guppy belly so will be flattening the trigger guard for 3+1 capacity. Also definitely not a fan of cock on closing. That can be fixed but requires changing the bolt shroud and trigger. The most troublesome obstacle is getting rid of those damn rear sight ears on the receiver. Still not sure what to do with the huge hole in top of rear ring underneath military rear sight. How do I fill that? And 1917/P14 is notorious for ejector spring breaking. I understand the defective leaf spring can be replaced with a coil spring after modifying the ejector and the receiver. So, there's pluses and minuses for either action choice but I definitely prefer 1903. It is one of the smoothest, if not the smoothest, cycling ever made. And no ears to cut off. Tap it and you're ready for a scope.

@Ontario Hunter
Leave the guppy belly as it will give you an extra round in the mag.
Cock on closing is a plus to me as it requires less effort to work the bolt and faster to operate.
To replace the ejector spring all you need is a small spring from any hardware shop and cut it to size. No need to modify the ejector. Dang I used the spring out of a ball point pen.
To fill the big hole just cut a piece of steel to size and silver solder it in place. Then just mill to the profile you want even a single square bridge.
You can remove a lot of meat from the REAR of the action without sacrificing the strength. Even parts like a 375 mag box are readily available.
I nice Timney trigger will give you a beautiful trigger off the shelf that you can fit in two minutes.
The beauty of the Enfield is they are easy to work on.
Bob

 

[Ontario Hunter]

@Ontario Hunter
Leave the guppy belly as it will give you an extra round in the mag.
Cock on closing is a plus to me as it requires less effort to work the bolt and faster to operate.
To replace the ejector spring all you need is a small spring from any hardware shop and cut it to size. No need to modify the ejector. Dang I used the spring out of a ball point pen.
To fill the big hole just cut a piece of steel to size and silver solder it in place. Then just mill to the profile you want even a single square bridge.
You can remove a lot of meat from the REAR of the action without sacrificing the strength. Even parts like a 375 mag box are readily available.
I nice Timney trigger will give you a beautiful trigger off the shelf that you can fit in two minutes.
The beauty of the Enfield is they are easy to work on.
Bob

Don't care for the look of guppy belly or the extra weight. If I can't kill a buffalo with four rounds, I probably deserve to be killed by him.

I have not been able to find anyone who makes aftermarket magnum magazine boxes for Enfield. That would be a handy shortcut.

Will bluing stick to silver solder?

I don't have the equipment to mill the receiver ears but I know a guy locally who should be able to do it. Looks like a lot of work will need to be done to modify the follower.

Personally, I find much less effort is needed to lift the bolt to cock it than shoving the bolt forward and down to cock. Results in pushing the gun away which would seem to be an impediment for those who feel a DGR must be shot from the shoulder (not me). I know cock on closing is SUPPOSED to cycle faster but I simply can't see it. Myth? Anyway, shooting fast has never been that important to me. If I change to cock on opening, apparently I'll need to pair the new cocking piece to a new trigger made for it. Dayton Traister makes the combo.