1903 springfield

[Jared640]

I have an 03 springfield that has been sporterized. Id love to find somebody i could send it to and have it converted to 375 and have it refurbished. Do any of you recommend anyone?

 

[Muskox]

https://pac-nor.com/. They do 03 Springfields, and barrels.

Probably about $850 plus shipping for an 03 375 barrel.

 

[Muskox]

Petrov posted a photo of a 03 Springfield at Hallowells in Livingston years ago.

Ask Morris if he remembers the rifle and has a photo of it. Apparently it didn't work very well.

 

[Muskox]

Michael Petrov and Elmer Keith would tell you to build a 400 Whelen anyway on the Petrov-Keith .458 shoulder 400 Whelen cartridge.

 

[jruby]

I have thought of doing this with my BSA model D 1917 enfield sporter. I am a bit worried about the shoulder on the 400 whelen hence I would probably go with the 375 whelen. It would be my third 375 cal rifle so I have been dragging my feet. I really don't see the advantage over the 9.3x62 which I have two of already

 

[Muskox]

I have thought of doing this with my BSA model D 1917 enfield sporter. I am a bit worried about the shoulder on the 400 whelen hence I would probably go with the 375 whelen. It would be my third 375 cal rifle so I have been dragging my feet. I really don't see the advantage over the 9.3x62 which I have two of already

I would agree with you.

I have a Blaser in 10,3x68 RWS. Similar to the 416 Taylor.

I would build a 400 Whelen on a Springfield for nostalgia purposes. But I mostly hunt with Blasers, so I don't know how much I would use it.

 

[jruby]

Here in the states I see limited use for 40 cal magnums. I have thought about the 45-70 but don't much care for the rainbow trajectory. I find the 9.3s and 375s about the largest I could imagine using in North America

 

[Muskox]

Nothing magnum about the 400 Whelen. Read Keith's cartridges for large game. He uses it extensively in that book.

 

[jruby]

As I understand it the perrov version of the 400 whelen comes close to being the equal of a 450/400 Nitro express in a bolt gun. Just trying to understand why that is usefu in NA. Want is one thing usefulness is another.

 

[Jared640]

Petrov posted a photo of a 03 Springfield at Hallowells in Livingston years ago.

Ask Morris if he remembers the rifle and has a photo of it. Apparently it didn't work very well.

Do you remember the issue?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

It will take more than just a barrel swap. The bottom metal will need to be substantially modified as 375 H&H is a much wider and longer cartridge than 30-06. Unlike Mauser or Model 70, I cannot find anyone who makes aftermarket bottom metal for 1903 so you would need to have something custom made ( = $$$!). Also, the bolt face will need to be opened up and extractor modified to accept 375's much wider case rim. Then the feeding rails, loading ramp, and follower will require substantial modification. That would be the most critical and challenging aspect of this build. And finally, I seriously doubt the 1903 ejection port is long enough for 375. Likely would require removing some of the receiver locking ring to eject loaded 375 cartridges. Cutting into the locking ring is not as ominous as it sounds.

I built 404 Jeffery on a standard action 98 Mauser 8mm, very similar cartridge to 30-06. I know about the obstacles. Fortunately, 404J just fits the 98 Mauser ejection/loading port and I was able to avoid trimming the locking ring. Also, I was able to order pre-built 416 Rem bottom metal and make it work for 404J cartridges. I modified feeding rails, loading ramp, follower, and extractor, but definitely not something for the faint of heart to tackle! Not to say 1903 conversion to 375 isn't doable, I'm sure it is, but it would be a challenging and expensive proposition. Nevertheless, I do commend your choice of donor action. I have an 03A3 Springfield that's been my go-to big game rifle since 1964. It is a much smoother cycling action than the Mauser ... and my 404 Mauser is slick as glass!

 

[jruby]

I guess with enough money it's all possible but I would think converting a 1903 into a 375H&H doesn't make sense to me. A 375 whelen would work nicely...I think the 1903 / a3 is no longer being supported. They seem to be going out style which is sad to me.

 

[Jared640]

It will take more than just a barrel swap. The bottom metal will need to be substantially modified as 375 H&H is a much wider and longer cartridge than 30-06. Unlike Mauser or Model 70, I cannot find anyone who makes aftermarket bottom metal for 1903 so you would need to have something custom made ( = $$$!). Also, the bolt face will need to be opened up and extractor modified to accept 375's much wider case rim. Then the feeding rails, loading ramp, and follower will require substantial modification. That would be the most critical and challenging aspect of this build. And finally, I seriously doubt the 1903 ejection port is long enough for 375. Likely would require removing some of the receiver locking ring to eject loaded 375 cartridges. Cutting into the locking ring is not as ominous as it sounds.

I built 404 Jeffery on a standard action 98 Mauser 8mm, very similar cartridge to 30-06. I know about the obstacles. Fortunately, 404J just fits the 98 Mauser ejection/loading port and I was able to avoid trimming the locking ring. Also, I was able to order pre-built 416 Rem bottom metal and make it work for 404J cartridges. I modified feeding rails, loading ramp, follower, and extractor, but definitely not something for the faint of heart to tackle! Not to say 1903 conversion to 375 isn't doable, I'm sure it is, but it would be a challenging and expensive proposition. Nevertheless, I do commend your choice of donor action. I have an 03A3 Springfield that's been my go-to big game rifle since 1964. It is a much smoother cycling action than the Mauser ... and my 404 Mauser is slick as glass!

Thanks for the information. I'm an archery guy. I have been to africa a few times. This sprinfield was my grandfather's. I know a 30-06 is fine for plains game but I want to take something that was his and make it mine. The plan is to carry it with me to africa and use during animal recovery and maybe take one animal each trip with it.

 

[BonUm16]

Other than to correct a safety issue, I won’t mess with “family” guns. Refinishing, converting, etc., it just seems wrong to wipe out the physical history that is part of those firearms. I just view myself as the caretaker till it makes it’s way to the next generation.

 

[Jared640]

Other than to correct a safety issue, I won’t mess with “family” guns. Refinishing, converting, etc., it just seems wrong to wipe out the physical history that is part of those firearms. I just view myself as the caretaker till it makes it’s way to the next generation.

I generally agree with this comment. This was something he picked up and had no significant meaning to him. A pawn shop special. The guns that I consider " his guns" will never be touched. But I feel comfortable taking this from an insignificant impulse buy and taking it to Africa and giving it a story.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Yep. I am about to start a similar project building a 375 (I think) on my late wife's grandfather's P14 Enfield. I understand Bert got it when his half-brother died but I don't think he ever fired it. Half-brother monkeyed with it and ruined any collector value. So it does have some history but nothing of any significance. I have no qualms about remaking it into something different. Bert liked to tinker and fix stuff (he died on his 95th birthday changing a tire on his truck). He would get a kick out of this.

My dad fixed up my Springfield back in 1962 and gave it to me two years later when he made another for himself. It has seen a ton of hard use since then and almost a complete makeover including three scopes, additional iron sights, changed scope bases three times, rings twice (actually 2.5 times), changed the barrel (but stayed with military 30-06), replaced the stock once (horse wreck in 1981) and refinished it at least three times, replaced the sling three times (burned the original military one in two when I fell asleep next to campfire in a snowstorm), replaced the safety three times, and reblued it after replacing the barrel. All changes were necessary to keep the rifle functioning (except the last scope upgrade).

Go for it! This is a doable project. Just gotta find the right guy and enough money. Curious whether your 1903 has machined bottom metal (with removable floorplate) or is it stamped metal one-piece (integral bottom/trigger guard/magazine box). Stamped metal would be later production and might actually be easier to modify the magazine box. Also, you should be aware that some of the early rifles made for WW1 had issues with hardness of receivers. Actually only a few were produced before the problem was discovered and corrected. You can go on line and find the serial number of problem production run. Even if your serial number falls in that range, the odds are nothing is wrong with the gun. But in that case you should have the receiver hardness tested to be sure.

Here's my Springfield.

And here's the 404 Jeffery built on Czech 98 Mauser.

 

[Jared640]

Yep. I am about to start a similar project building a 375 (I think) on my late wife's grandfather's P14 Enfield. I understand Bert got it when his half-brother died but I don't think he ever fired it. Half-brother monkeyed with it and ruined any collector value. So it does have some history but nothing of any significance. I have no qualms about remaking it into something different. Bert liked to tinker and fix stuff (he died on his 95th birthday changing a tire on his truck). He would get a kick out of this.

My dad fixed up my Springfield back in 1962 and gave it to me two years later when he made another for himself. It has seen a ton of hard use since then and almost a complete makeover including three scopes, additional iron sights, changed scope bases three times, rings twice (actually 2.5 times), changed the barrel (but stayed with military 30-06), replaced the stock once (horse wreck in 1981) and refinished it at least three times, replaced the sling three times (burned the original military one in two when I fell asleep next to campfire in a snowstorm), replaced the safety three times, and reblued it after replacing the barrel. All changes were necessary to keep the rifle functioning (except the last scope upgrade).

Go for it! This is a doable project. Just gotta find the right guy and enough money. Curious whether your 1903 has machined bottom metal (with removable floorplate) or is it stamped metal one-piece (integral bottom/trigger guard/magazine box). Stamped metal would be later production and might actually be easier to modify the magazine box. Also, you should be aware that some of the early rifles made for WW1 had issues with hardness of receivers. Actually only a few were produced before the problem was discovered and corrected. You can go on line and find the serial number of problem production run. Even if your serial number falls in that range, the odds are nothing is wrong with the gun. But in that case you should have the receiver hardness tested to be sure.

Here's my Springfield.
View attachment 677021
View attachment 677023
And here's the 404 Jeffery built on Czech 98 Mauser.
View attachment 677022

Your rifle is beautiful and I love the history. Horse wrecks and a snow storm. I follow this page daily but rarely comment. I always enjoy to read your view point on things and it sounds like you have some interesting story's you could tell.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I did some comparisons to see if this project you're proposing is physically a possibility.

My main concern was if the Springfield 1903 action is long enough for 375 H&H. As I said, I built a 404 Jeffery on standard 98 Mauser. The ejection port on the Mauser is 3.08" and 404J cartridge overall length (OAL) is 3.53". Even though the ejection/loading port is 0.45" shorter than cartridge OAL, the gun cycles perfectly whether ejecting loaded cartridges or empty cases. My Springfield has an ejection port that is 3.35" long and 375 H&H cartridge is 3.60" OAL. Thus, Springfield ejection port would only be 0.25" shorter than 375 OAL. If I could make a greater difference of 0.45" work with my Mauser project, it would seem you should be able to make 0.25" difference work with your proposed project. Springfield's 0.686" bolt diameter is more than wide enough for bolt face to be opened up to 375 rim 0.532". A 404 Jeffery should generate at least as much if not more recoil energy as 375. On the face of it this appears to be a doable proposition. Three other factors need to be checked: 1) Are 1903 locking ring and lugs strong enough? Even if the locking lugs are insufficient for 375 energy (which seems to me doubtful), I understand it is possible to lap them and bring the third safety lug into play. That would definitely provide enough locking lug strength. 2) As mentioned earlier, you will need to ascertain the receiver has proper hardness. 3) The ejector may need to be reshaped to change the timing of ejection. Should not be a big deal.

 

[jruby]

I did some comparisons to see if this project you're proposing is physically a possibility.

My main concern was if the Springfield 1903 action is long enough for 375 H&H. As I said, I built a 404 Jeffery on standard 98 Mauser. The ejection port on the Mauser is 3.08" and 404J cartridge overall length (OAL) is 3.53". Even though the ejection/loading port is 0.45" shorter than cartridge OAL, the gun cycles perfectly whether ejecting loaded cartridges or empty cases. My Springfield has an ejection port that is 3.35" long and 375 H&H cartridge is 3.60" OAL. Thus, Springfield ejection port would only be 0.25" shorter than 375 OAL. If I could make a greater difference of 0.45" work with my Mauser project, it would seem you should be able to make 0.25" difference work with your proposed project. Springfield's 0.686" bolt diameter is more than wide enough for bolt face to be opened up to 375 rim 0.532". A 404 Jeffery should generate at least as much if not more recoil energy as 375. On the face of it this appears to be a doable proposition. Three other factors need to be checked: 1) Are 1903 locking ring and lugs strong enough? Even if the locking lugs are insufficient for 375 energy (which seems to me doubtful), I understand it is possible to lap them and bring the third safety lug into play. That would definitely provide enough locking lug strength. 2) As mentioned earlier, you will need to ascertain the receiver has proper hardness. 3) The ejector may need to be reshaped to change the timing of ejection. Should not be a big deal.

Excellent information. I think there are simpler conversions and better actions for a 375H&H. I love the 1903 action and have two. A 6.5x55 and a 257 roberts.i had one in 30-338wm and many in 30-06. I just wish I could get synthetic stocks for them.

 

[Muskox]

Do you remember the issue?

Yes, it didn't fit.

You'd have to be willing to dump about $3000 into the metal work to put a barrel on it, build bottom metal and slick everything up. Barrel and bolt face is about $1200 of that, $1800 for the custom bottom metal, feeding, opening up the port. Going to be a neat project.