best bolt action for dangerous games

[gtrust]

I used to buy safari ammo from the ancient fellow at Superior Ammunition. He was fantastic and his ammo perfect and consistent. He sold the company. I switched to buying custom loaded cartridges from Hendershots, Hancock, MD USA. I have ordered the same caliber/bullet three times over four years. The cartridges from all three lots (years) have the same, drop, velocity, length and hit the target with precision. These cartridges are interchangeable. This is the consistency I used to get from Superior. As for cartridges for my Beretta double rifle, I still have several boxes of Monolithic Solids, Softs, Lion Loads from Art Alphin, A Square Triad ammo. Velocity accurate, group well, and hit like a hammer. Beautiful round nose bullets. Real craftsmanship. Even had A Square Triad for my .338, but reluctantly sold the .338 boxes with the rifle.

 

[Beck]

this post is going to be 45 pages long before it is done. I vote Sako - value, reliability, and accuracy all wrapped up in one.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

1-I only use take-down rifles, makes transport easy. Your PH will be happy.
2-I like .375HH, Dakota 97, Outfitter. Accurate, weather proof, reliable, excellent iron sights.
3-But my preference is think beyond bolt to double barrels if possible.

I like your thinking. I just choke on the price tags! I rarely shoot any shotgun except my SxS and could easily make the switch to a double rifle but I can make another trip to Africa if I just keep using my two Mauser action bolt guns. I love the look and feel of double rifles. The cruelty of envy just breaks the heart!

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I used to buy safari ammo from the ancient fellow at Superior Ammunition. He was fantastic and his ammo perfect and consistent. He sold the company. I switched to buying custom loaded cartridges from Hendershots, Hancock, MD USA. I have ordered the same caliber/bullet three times over four years. The cartridges from all three lots (years) have the same, drop, velocity, length and hit the target with precision. These cartridges are interchangeable. This is the consistency I used to get from Superior. As for cartridges for my Beretta double rifle, I still have several boxes of Monolithic Solids, Softs, Lion Loads from Art Alphin, A Square Triad ammo. Velocity accurate, group well, and hit like a hammer. Beautiful round nose bullets. Real craftsmanship. Even had A Square Triad for my .338, but reluctantly sold the .338 boxes with the rifle.

I don't know the company that you referred to, but I'm guessing that these are custom hand loads, not mass production?

 

[Paul G]

Heym gets my vote

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Superior had a mfg. license so would probably have been considered a custom mfg. of ammunition. If i remember correctly his name was Larry. I believe the company name is still operational.

As far a reloads go I do not care what our hunters use. One bad experience, fortunately the client had an opportunity on croc before buff. He was using a M-70 in .375 H&H he missed his croc, when it went to put another round in bolt frozen had to beat the handle open with my tent peg hammer. He used some federal premiums I had. When it came time to leave he so graciously gave me all of his remaining reloads when it was time to leave. If someone wants them they are in the zambezi.

 

[One Day...]

One Day...​

...
But your argument that beveling the extractor face is somehow problematic does not convince me. I fail to see how the extractor can 'slip over' the cartridge rim on extraction if it is not beveled incorrectly. I insist that my CRF rifles be capable of single feeding without putting the cartridge down in the magazine, which takes more time than dropping it in and pushing it forward with the bolt - like a PF design.

Let me demonstrate

Correct a properly beveled extracter designed to slip over the rim is equally as strong as one designed not to do so when extracting a spent cartridge....

This is incorrect

Allow me to use a simple illustration I just sketched on AutoCAD (not to scale)

The reality, Nevada Mike, is that beveling a Mauser extractor to create the space for it to jump the rim inside the front bridge when closing the bolt, inevitably also creates the space for it to potentially jump the rim when opening the bolt, hence potentially fail to extract. The extractor therefore looses its "Mauser infallibility" and becomes no different from a Remington extractor, or Sako, or etc. etc. The misunderstanding generally comes from the fact that folks typically do not understand which part of the extractor is bevelled, and to what purpose, and that there is no such thing as a "correctly beveled" extractor. I hope the drawing helps visualize...

The reality, IvW, is that removing material from the extractor to create the space for it to jump the rim automatically weakens it at the two points where it is already the most vulnerable, therefore it CANNOT be "as strong as one designed not to do so" (this is simple materials physics), AND it creates the possibility for the extractor to be flexed upward which inevitably cause metal fracture, visible when it breaks, or invisible when it is internal before breaking, because it is forced to flex UPWARD, AGAINST ITS RADIUS (the extractor is not flat but radiused to the round contour of the bolt).

Note: this is why one needs to be very careful when removing a Mauser extractor from its bolt, as it is quite easy to break it when flexing it upward...

To each their own, and folks are welcome to snap beveled Mauser extractors over a cartridge inserted directly in the chamber, but it DOES defeat the two purposes of a Mauser action (infallible extraction and impossibility to double feed or close the bolt on a cartridge undetected in the chamber), and it is ONLY A MATTER OF TIME before the extractor breaks.

If you do not believe me, inquire with CZ, Winchester, etc. why they sell so many spare extractors

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I doubt if PaulMauser would be impressed or say to himself why didn’t I think of beveling my extractors.

As much as I would like 1 more round capacity I will stck with Pauls design.

 

[jwp475]

I think the main concern is not so meticulously loaded and unthoroughly tested hand loads.

Happens with factory loads also

 

[gbflyer]

Definitely handloaders that I would trust my life to. Probably most of the dedicated shooters here actually. I believe though that one has to look at the handload/factory ammo debate for DG a bit more broadly. If one were a professional hunter without prior knowledge of a client’s abilities as a hand loader, I could understand the factory ammo recommendations. Let’s be honest, a customer who has the funding to be able to go on a DG hunt probably isn’t the person that has the time to be an expert handloader. Of course there are always exceptions, this is just a general observation after dealing with wealthy people for a number of years. Not only is there the potential for a life threatening situation, there is also potential for a very disappointing hunt experience which potentially reflects poorly for the professional regardless of his/her level of responsibility for ammunition recommendations. I suspect this is the rationale applied to Mr. Glass’s comments.

I guess I don’t purposely hunt dangerous game. I live, work, and generally hunt amongst the coastal brown bears of Alaska. Generally they are well fed and not interested in people. A wounded one or a sow with cubs being a different story. The odd unpleasant interactions are sorted out with what’s in hand, usually successfully.

 

[gtrust]

I don't know the company that you referred to, but I'm guessing that these are custom hand loads, not mass production?

You can view Hendershots online and order online. Do not know their loading process, however, the results are accurate, reliable ammunition. The A-Square has not been manufactured in years, however, their bullets can be found sometimes at gun shows. They are legendary in terms of performance and accuracy.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

You can view Hendershots online and order online. Do not know their loading process, however, the results are accurate, reliable ammunition. The A-Square has not been manufactured in years, however, their bullets can be found sometimes at gun shows. They are legendary in terms of performance and accuracy.

I looked up their website. They claim to weigh and assemble each round one at a time. The loads are all custom. In other words, the opposite of mass production. If I didn't enjoy building my own ammunition, and having complete confidence in having done everything to know that I had the most reliable rounds possible, it's the way I would go. They look to be a company that deserves their good reputation and your confidence.

Of course, I would still have to buy and test a bunch of their ammunition and test it thoroughly before I would take it out for dangerous game. Just as I do with my own hand loads.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

That isnt what you said on the thread asking why PH's dont use Blaser R8. There you couldnt understand why PH's didnt use the rifle that you use ???

Funny enough I agree with what you said here. PH's need reliability first and then accuracy. Clients the other way around.

Your statements about the needs of PH's and clients were really well said. I think you nailed it!
As a client, I still like reliability though.
Cheers mate,
Doug

 

[Nhoro]

Your statements about the needs of PH's and clients were really well said. I think you nailed it!
As a client, I still like reliability though.
Cheers mate,
Doug

Yes, i think most rifle actions can be made to be reliable but mauser actions just give me that little bit of extra confidence. And i think all the modern rifles are acurate enough for DG, most are more acurate than i am. So go with what makes you feel confident.

I reckon as a client, your first priority is an acurate first shot.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Yes, i think most rifle actions can be made to be reliable but mauser actions just give me that little bit of extra confidence. And i think all the modern rifles are acurate enough for DG, most are more acurate than i am. So go with what makes you feel confident.

I reckon as a client, your first priority is an acurate first shot.

In 1983 I made my first safari in Zim. I had a pretty good idea of where the heart was and when I shot the buffalo bull I did break the shoulder and hit the heart, but it was low, and the bull charged a few more shots and he was in the bush. We both reloaded and found him still on his feet. The PH hit the bull and he went down looking dead. We.moved in, very carefully, and at about 10 feet the buffalo the bull jumped up to close on the PH. We both through our rifles up and the PH pulled his trigger. The rifle just made a loud "snap." I was to the side and was able to break the bull's neck, ending it. The PH's rifle was a push feed bolt, that failed to feed up the next round. Lack of reliability, could have ended badly.
This year (39 years and 2 months later) I was back in Zim with the same PH and my same Mauser .458. By now I had a much better idea of where the heart was and put the bullet through the shoulder, top of the heart, passed through the side and exited the bull behind the opposite shoulder. The buffalo ran about 25 yards in the direction he was facing into the brush where he piled up dead.
The PH is now carrying a well worn and dead reliable rifle on a Mauser action, and I was able to place the first (only) shot where it should go. Something can always go wrong, but the client should place the shot where it should go, and the PH should be able to put a stop to it if things go wrong.

 

[jwp475]

Only two readon why the push feed didn't pickup the next round. He either short stroked the bolt or the magazine spring didn't push the next cartridge into position

 

[DrBob]

G.M.A (Granite Mountain Arms) African Magnum Mauser (among those currently made)- Hands down the top of the line. I'll add that if you ever plan to have a .505 Gibbs rifle custom built for you, the G.M.A African Magnum Mauser action is the only currently manufactured action out there with a proper 0.750" diameter bolt face for accommodating the massive .505 Gibbs round. Any other action will need to have the bolt face opened up for this purpose.
View attachment 495257

BRNO ZKK602 (amongst those made in the past)- The old Czech workhorse
View attachment 495258

I also have a soft spot for the old B.S.A Majestic action, even though it was a push feed and has long since been out of production. And the Blaser R-8 action is also very nice.

The crowbar of Africa ... as affectionately known

 

[DrBob]

If the extractor on a Mauser 98 actioned rifle is beveled (by an experienced gunsmith), then it will allow you to snap the extractor directly over a cartridge in the chamber. The new Winchester Model 70 Safari Express is a good example.

Remington Model 700s are poorly suited for dangerous game. Unless you have an experienced gunsmith fit it with an M-16 extractor.

Or just learn to pinch the mid-portion of the extractor to bow it allowing engagement when closing the bolt.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Only two readon why the push feed didn't pickup the next round. He either short stroked the bolt or the magazine spring didn't push the next cartridge into position

Yep. That's how we saw it it the time. The plate at the top of the spring seemed to be sticking and didn't feed up the last round so he closed the bolt on an empty chamber. He carried his .375 for the rest of that trip (Brno, if I remember right) and sold the .458 shortly after. We were done with DG by then anyway. I'm not exactly sure if the push feed .458 was a M70 or M700, it was almost 40 years ago!

 

[Christian Davis]

Apologies if this is incorrect, as I am no expert, but I always had the impression that the beveling which allows the extractor to snap over the rim of the cartridge in the chamber was done to the face of the extractor. If this is so I don't see that such beveling would greatly increase the risk of extractor failure. Of course I may be mistaken. I have attached images to illustrate what I have in mind. Thanks all for your contributions to the discussion!