Lang 12 Bore For Sale

[JPmbogo]

Classic English s/s 12 bore by Joseph Lang. Built approximately 1902. 28" bbls. choked cyl. & cyl. (No problem with modern shot cups). 2 1/2" chambers (ammo readily available in the US). 14 1/4 LOP to solid black Pachmayr Decelerator Pad. Straight English grip with push-button release splinter fore end. Anson-Deeley box lock action with active doll's head third fastener, auto ejectors in time, and proper barrel reblack. Excellent bores and tight on the face. 6lbs, 8 oz. Lovely upland game gun. In Robert Ruark's memorable words: need a "shotty gun" on safari. Will ship with leather and oiled canvas take-down case. $2500 shipped, US only.

 

[Proneshooter]

Please be still my beating heart, what a lovely shotgun.

 

[WAB]

Very nice shotgun. A couple of questions:

1) the lever looks like it might not be coming full center on closing, has the gun been re-jointed?
2) is there any cracking in the wrist?

Thanks!

 

[rookhawk]

I love Langs.

The metal looks to be in nice shape too. The big question is “is it in proof” and what are the minimum wall and bore dimensions?

Lang made exceptionally nice guns. If this one were to become mine I’d pay a few hundred bucks to get the stock freshened and grain filled to match the condition of the metal. I suspect it would bounce back to a much higher condition if one cared to do so.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Very nice shotgun. A couple of questions:

1) the lever looks like it might not be coming full center on closing, has the gun been re-jointed?
2) is there any cracking in the wrist?

Thanks!

Levers on very tight guns usually do not come to full center, only with wear. This one looks like it should be a bit closer to center. My George Gibbs which is very tight does the same thing if you close it very gently or if it is a bit dirty. Looks like a heck of a nice shotgun. Cut half the barrels off and it would make a good leopard follow up gun. Or not!

 

[JPmbogo]

Very nice shotgun. A couple of questions:

1) the lever looks like it might not be coming full center on closing, has the gun been re-jointed?
2) is there any cracking in the wrist?

Thanks!

A gentle nudge will move the top lever to full center. The fact that the lever does not snap back to full center on closing indicates the action is still tight. High quality doubles typically have that factor built in to allow for wear. Point in fact, the top lever on my new Verney Carron 600 NE will not go to full center, thus allowing for eventual wear (although not likely given the caliber!).

No cracks anywhere - the stock is solid. I acquired the gun a few years back to hunt upland and that never happened. However, I have shot several rounds of trap with it - did not break 25 straight, but she does shoulder and shoots nicely.

I have more photos available, and will gladly take more if necessary. Please PM if interested further.

 

[JPmbogo]

Classic English s/s 12 bore by Joseph Lang. Built approximately 1902. 28" bbls. choked cyl. & cyl. (No problem with modern shot cups). 2 1/2" chambers (ammo readily available in the US). 14 1/4 LOP to solid black Pachmayr Decelerator Pad. Straight English grip with push-button release splinter fore end. Anson-Deeley box lock action with active doll's head third fastener, auto ejectors in time, and proper barrel reblack. Excellent bores and tight on the face. 6lbs, 8 oz. Lovely upland game gun. In Robert Ruark's memorable words: need a "shotty gun" on safari. Will ship with leather and oiled canvas take-down case. $2500 shipped, US only.

View attachment 462143View attachment 462144View attachment 462145View attachment 462146View attachment 462147View attachment 462148View attachment 462149

I have six boxes of RST 2 1/2" 1 oz, #7 1/2 I will include in the sale price, shipped separately, of course.

 

[Robmill70]

I had an 1897 Lang, a very nice gun, although mine was a sidelock. I deal in a lot of old SxS shotguns and it's very common to see the break lever off center. Big thing is that it locks up tight and is on face.

Great looking shotty, what's it choked, full/full?, GLWS

 

[WAB]

Levers on very tight guns usually do not come to full center, only with wear. This one looks like it should be a bit closer to center. My George Gibbs which is very tight does the same thing if you close it very gently or if it is a bit dirty. Looks like a heck of a nice shotgun. Cut half the barrels off and it would make a good leopard follow up gun. Or not!

Understood, hence my question. This is a beautiful vintage gun that has seen significant use (not a bad thing). I was curious about the position of the lever and potential re-jointing as I would have expected the use/wear to allow the lever to come full center.

 

[JPmbogo]

I had an 1897 Lang, a very nice gun, although mine was a sidelock. I deal in a lot of old SxS shotguns and it's very common to see the break lever off center. Big thing is that it locks up tight and is on face.

Great looking shotty, what's it choked, full/full?, GLWS

Just the opposite; cyl & cyl.

 

[rookhawk]

Just the opposite; cyl & cyl.

You sure about that? It should be Cylinder in the right bore by the proof marks, the left should have a bit of choke at minimum.

 

[Robmill70]

Cyl/Cyl?????? hmmmm.....have you checked it? Have you got ahold of Lang and asked them if they have any notes in the book when they sold it? I found out who purchased mine and when.....was a Judge

 

[JPmbogo]

I had an 1897 Lang, a very nice gun, although mine was a sidelock. I deal in a lot of old SxS shotguns and it's very common to see the break lever off center. Big thing is that it locks up tight and is on face.

Great looking shotty, what's it choked, full/full?, GLWS

Just the opposite; cyl & cyl.

 

[JPmbogo]

I have attached an enhanced photo of the proof marks on the underside of the barrels. Please note the "12C" clearly marked inside of the diamond for each barrel. In addition, I mic'd both barrels at .729. I would call that pretty convincing on the chokes (or lack thereof). Plus for what it is worth, the highly experienced and well-known and respected dealer from whom I purchased the shotgun, had listed the chokes at cyl & cyl. Enough said.

 

[rookhawk]

I have attached an enhanced photo of the proof marks on the underside of the barrels. Please note the "12C" clearly marked inside of the diamond for each barrel. In addition, I mic'd both barrels at .729. I would call that pretty convincing on the chokes (or lack thereof). Plus for what it is worth, the highly experienced and well-known and respected dealer from whom I purchased the shotgun, had listed the chokes at cyl & cyl. Enough said.View attachment 462368

Not all trying to be argumentative of your gun, but the proof mark on the left tube of “choke” indicates it once had choke. A nominal 12-bore diameter is indeed .729” but as you know 13 or 13/1 as a tighter proof mark (not present) is several thousandths away. The left barrel only needed .003-.004” of choke to be considered skeet 1 or even British “quarter choke” or “improved cylinder”. That very subtle amount of choke could have been polished out by removing only two thousandths from the left tube, or it could have been born with even .030” full choke in the left tube which was a popular cyl/full way to build a gun in that era. Many times the left choke was opened later.

This casts no cloud over your very nice gun whatsoever. The key thing is that it is still in proof and has acceptable minimum wall thickness overall and 9” from the breach. But when new, it had at least two thousandth of choke in the left tube.

 

[Red Leg]

Not all trying to be argumentative of your gun, but the proof mark on the left tube of “choke” indicates it once had choke. A nominal 12-bore diameter is indeed .729” but as you know 13 or 13/1 as a tighter proof mark (not present) is several thousandths away. The left barrel only needed .003-.004” of choke to be considered skeet 1 or even British “quarter choke” or “improved cylinder”. That very subtle amount of choke could have been polished out by removing only two thousandths from the left tube, or it could have been born with even .030” full choke in the left tube which was a popular cyl/full way to build a gun in that era. Many times the left choke was opened later.

This casts no cloud over your very nice gun whatsoever. The key thing is that it is still in proof and has acceptable minimum wall thickness overall and 9” from the breach. But when new, it had at least two thousandth of choke in the left tube.

Correct.

Like nearly all British game guns, the left barrel would have been choked to some degree. The left barrel is marked appropriately for such choking. As noted, it could have been anything from what we call skeet through full.

The 12C marking is the standard English mark for a 12 bore shotgun with a nominal bore. It has nothing to do with choke.

That they are .729 means the gun is indeed in proof. Excellent. The only question would be is whether the choking was polished out or the barrels were cut. If they still touch at the muzzle, it was polished. With cyl chokes, it is a fine upland gun.

 

[rookhawk]

Correct.

Like nearly all British game guns, the left barrel would have been choked to some degree. The left barrel is marked appropriately for such choking. As noted, it could have been anything from what we call skeet through full.

The 12C marking is the standard English mark for a 12 bore shotgun with a nominal bore. It has nothing to do with choke.

That they are .729 means the gun is indeed in proof. Excellent. The only question would be is whether the choking was polished out or the barrels were cut. If they still touch at the muzzle, it was polished. With cyl chokes, it is a fine upland gun.

Add to that @Red Leg , a “plunge gauge” you drop in the muzzle to measure choke isn’t worth the $40 it cost to make. A $200 bore diameter gauge may find that there is more choke present 1/4” into the muzzle. I’ve bought many English guns that were allegedly Cyl/Cyl and when properly measured in the barrel with a bore diameter gauge rather than a plunge gauge, I found anything from Cyl/Skeet all the way to Cylinder and 3/4 choke. (Improved Modified)

Nothing of this points badly to the gun, just an academic discussion on what a gun really might be beyond what the proof marks say it is. To get to such facts after learning the very hard and expensive way, I went out and bought $2000 in gauges to measure chamber, bore, choke, and wall thickness and then all the archaic books that define the various proof marks to a level of detail not found on the Internet. It matters very little on a $3000 box lock but these nuances can create $10,000 price swings on best guns.

 

[Pondoro]

On my 1896 Purdey right barrel is cylinder and left modified choke, this a 28" game gun..

 

[sureshot375]

Can you shoot modern heavy upland loads in this gun? I’m looking for a sxs with double triggers to get a little more practice with double triggers to build muscle memory for double rifle shooting purposes.

Edit to say I just saw it has 2 and 1/2 in chambers. It would not shoot the upland shells I usually use.

 

[Red Leg]

Can you shoot modern heavy upland loads in this gun? I’m looking for a sxs with double triggers to get a little more practice with double triggers to build muscle memory for double rifle shooting purposes.

Edit to say I just saw it has 2 and 1/2 in chambers. It would not shoot the upland shells I usually use.

A 1 1/8 ounce load of of No. 6 shot is considered a “heavy” upland load a lot of places. It is the heaviest that I use in any of my SxS’s for upland game including pheasant and sharp tail. It is both very shootable and lethal in a traditional game gun.