TSX - You Can't Have It Both Ways!

[Russ16]

I can only state what my PH has said. He said bring solids if you want mainly for shooting an impala or klipspringer without too much damage. Beyond that he said the TSX or his preference the A-Frame for use on Buffalo.

 

[375Fox]

Barns fan boy here too , but I might be biased towards them because way back in the 1990’s my uncle and I were field testers for barns, and they were mind altering from the beginning on nilgai, elk , oryx , and everything smaller. ( after we figured out the loadings)
Very different from bonded or H core type ( nosler partition) in terms of performance
I am not Nostradamus but I can see most bonded stuff disappearing over time
TBBC , swift, woodley , Speer grand slam are already on their way,
Hornday bonded has been obsolete for years now . Trend is towards higher B.C tipped explosive Cup and core or a specialty company for larger caliber rifles bonded solid base V core & H core .
I have a 375 ruger and yes it’s turned me into a horder , dumpster diver , reloader .

Copper bullets might take a larger share of market because easier to produce than premium bonded bullets and combine that with lead bans in future, but bullets like trophy bonded bear claw are hardly disappearing. Federal trophy bonded tip and Terminal Ascent are the latest versions of trophy bonded bear claw. Swift sells out quickly. Federal Fusion looks identical to woodleigh bullets. Certain bullets might get renamed, but they are hardly on their way out. TSX is likely at more risk than some of the other bullets you named. They use to have a monopoly on copper bullets, now everyone has one.

 

[BC Tal]

If you ask PHs to see their rental gun ammo, you’ll see TSX is common but doesn’t have nearly this kind of market share. Maybe 25% at best? I’ve never seen North Fork bullets in rental ammo left from previous clients or on PH’s ammo belt. Barnes brand ammo has become cheaper than Hornady recently so it will likely become increasingly common.

I think North Fork is still a relatively bespoke ammo company that is gaining market share, especially compared to how long Barnes has been around for.
Both North Fork’s semi spitzer with the bonded lead front on the solid copper back half and the cup point solid with the expanding nose and solid copper body are excellent bullets for both first shot and follow up compared to solids. They have excellent max retention of bullet weight, bullet expansion creating good wound channel (more for the semi spitzer) and a heavy copper solid body to really penetrate and deal with bone (more for the cup point solid).
I think PHs are like us hunters, sometimes conservative; use what you know.
Bullet placement is critical, that will never change, but the debate on bullet construction and selection will go on as long as there is more than one type of bullet available.
As long as it is not unethical for the animal or unnecessarily dangerous for the hunter, choice is a wonderful thing.
Some folks like Barnes TSX, others don’t. I’ve never shot them. I like North Fork.
And awesome post @Philip Glass

 

[Surgeon1]

It looks like I'm in the minority when it comes to Barnes bullets. My history with Barnes Bullets dates back to my childhood and young teen years when they were made in Denver using copper tubing with a lead core. My family and myself used them for years even though they we not as accurate as the next generation premium bullet (Partitions and BitterRoot). Not long after Randy Brooks bought Barnes and
came out with the solid copper bullets that have matured to the TSX & TTSX along with several
"copycat variations".
My issues with current Barnes are:
1. Accuracy varies a lot much related to copper fouling and velocity fluctuations.
2. Performance is very inconsistent from expansion and peddle sheading to frequent shoot throughs.
3. Rapid copper fouling that leads to increased pressures and decreasing accuracy.
4. Lot to lot variations in bullet weight

I've purchased many rifles who I either feel or know were sold for reasons #1&3. Most have been customs with high quality barrels that have been so heavily copper fouled they were sold because of
accuracy issues. A Bore scope exam usually tells the story. Former owners will tell you they cleaned the
gun and even went to other brands of bullets and/or ammo with no resolution.
The vast majority of those rifles can be saved but it takes special techniques and care to do it, simple
cleaning even with Cu+ removing solvents isn't enough (and they are often very caustic).
I've personally in the last few years tested several copper bullets incl TSX, in calibers from 25 to 416,
accuracy and pressure issues start to develop as soon as 20 rounds to as much as 60 even from good quality hand lapped barrels, a few cut rifling barrels seam to do better but not always.
I respect those of you who choose to use solid copper bullets for whatever reason, sometimes it's
what you have been told, what a government bureaucrat has forced you to use, lack of availability of another option, or cost (and they are the cheapest "premium"). With proper techniques can they be used (YES) but I'm convinced the average rifle owner doesn't clean their rifle bores well anyway let alone what it takes to use most of the copper bullets available IMHO.

 

[steve white]

I made a mistake not shooting TSX in Namibia out of my 30'06. A Hornady bullet failed on a Gemsbok and was lost after two days tracking (the tracking experience was a thrill in itself). I am certain that a TSX would have anchored that animal. I had some 220 grain NP along, but the PH said he had bad luck with partitions and preferred I shoot the Hornady. I'm not sure when the TSX came out--this trip may have been just before then? It was about 23 years ago.

 

[375Fox]

I think North Fork is still a relatively bespoke ammo company that is gaining market share, especially compared to how long Barnes has been around for.
Both North Fork’s semi spitzer with the bonded lead front on the solid copper back half and the cup point solid with the expanding nose and solid copper body are excellent bullets for both first shot and follow up compared to solids. They have excellent max retention of bullet weight, bullet expansion creating good wound channel (more for the semi spitzer) and a heavy copper solid body to really penetrate and deal with bone (more for the cup point solid).
I think PHs are like us hunters, sometimes conservative; use what you know.
Bullet placement is critical, that will never change, but the debate on bullet construction and selection will go on as long as there is more than one type of bullet available.
As long as it is not unethical for the animal or unnecessarily dangerous for the hunter, choice is a wonderful thing.
Some folks like Barnes TSX, others don’t. I’ve never shot them. I like North Fork.
And awesome post @Philip Glass

My comment wasn’t anything negative against North Fork, but I thought the comment to say the number of Barnes used in last 30 years will exceed all swifts, north fork, woodleigh combined is ridiculous. Outside South Africa and Namibia, the only quality ammo PHs have is left by clients. You get a good idea what gets used and how frequently by looking at what’s on hand for rental rifles. Barnes doesn’t have nearly that kind of market share although it would be in top 4 or 5.

 

[BJH65]

My comment wasn’t anything negative against North Fork, but I thought the comment to say the number of Barnes used in last 30 years will exceed all swifts, north fork, woodleigh combined is ridiculous. Outside South Africa and Namibia, the only quality ammo PHs have is left by clients. You get a good idea what gets used and how frequently by looking at what’s on hand for rental rifles. Barnes doesn’t have nearly that kind of market share although it would be in top 4 or 5.

I agree with your assessment but maybe not during the last 5 years however especially it seems during and after Covid. It’s been very difficult to obtain factory loaded Swift A Frame and TBBC cartridges, two of my favorite premium bullets. I think North Fork, especially their soft points are really filling the void. In fact, because I can’t obtain TBBC, I’m going to use North Fork as a replacement for them.

 

[cwickgo9]

I made a mistake not shooting TSX in Namibia out of my 30'06. A Hornady bullet failed on a Gemsbok and was lost after two days tracking (the tracking experience was a thrill in itself). I am certain that a TSX would have anchored that animal. I had some 220 grain NP along, but the PH said he had bad luck with partitions and preferred I shoot the Hornady. I'm not sure when the TSX came out--this trip may have been just before then? It was about 23 years ago.

Interesting. I had the exact opposite issue. Both of my 30-06's in '23 had terribly POI variations with solid copper bullets. I've gone back to BT-SP and accuracy is great. I'm not sure if its the twist rates on the longer copper bullets (using 180 gr) as opposed to the lead cores, but it became obvious after two days of misses there was a severe bullet issue in both guns. As soon as I changed back, I was shooting clovers.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

If you ask PHs to see their rental gun ammo, you’ll see TSX is common but doesn’t have nearly this kind of market share. Maybe 25% at best? I’ve never seen North Fork bullets in rental ammo left from previous clients or on PH’s ammo belt. Barnes brand ammo has become cheaper than Hornady recently so it will likely become increasingly common.

For my 375HH and Rigby 416, the Barnes factory ammo were superbly accurate, so much so, I ended up just ordering two cases for the Rigby. It was shooting less than .5” MOA, consistent velocities, well above Federal, and was by far the most reasonable.

On my most recent trip, two bulls, both with TSX, first was a front and other broadside, one dropped in his tracks, the other made it barely 15 yards. Both received follow-ups on approach, but they were finished after the first shots.

 

[The creed]

I would look at the Hornady CX. They’ve got three weights in 30 cal: 150, 165, and 180, with BCs of 418, 440, and 469. Plus, they’re selling Superformance loads. The 30-06 150 grain is advertised at 3080, which should get it to 350 yards or so and within Nathan’s parameters

 

[The creed]

I would look at the Hornady CX. They’ve got three weights in 30 cal: 150, 165, and 180, with BCs of 418, 440, and 469. Plus, they’re selling Superformance loads. The 30-06 150 grain is advertised at 3080, which should get it to 350 yards or so and within Nathan’s parameters

 

[akrifleman]

We expect bullets to perform under a massive set of circumstances. We want to use the same construction in an enormous range of velocities, calibers, and terminal game scenarios.

Since the "rotten bullet era" where core separation was common, manufacturers have been working on various designs to overcome what an engineer would view as an overwhelming number of variables. Solids were the early entrant, followed by partitions, bonded, and monometal. All offered new capabilities and new performance windows. And yet, every design has had issues with everything from accuracy to terminal performance.

Over time, the more a bullet becomes popular, the more all the edge cases pop up, and the limitations become "known". Some bullets have proven very effective for a specific use case (ie solids on brain), and some have proven very effective for a wider range of scenarios. My take is that TSX are popular because they have worked on a fairly wide range of situations, and have been pretty available. I view the TSX as a success story, given how many people have had exceptional results with them.

Personally, I view TSX as Gen1 and Gen2 monolithics, and things like GSCustom, Hammer Bullets, and Copper Rose as Gen3+ bullets. My GSCustoms and Hammer Bullets were a revelation for me personally. For my limited experience, they were more accurate and had better terminal performance than the first generation of monolithics. I had the same feeling years ago when I first tried AccuBonds over the previous first generation Sciroccos and any previous cup and core. Unfortunately, the blackouts in SA killed GSCustom CNC machines, so Hammers are my new favorite. The ammo I left my PH (375 H&H) did a Buff dirty with a DRT with a later client. At the same time, we had two pass-through on impala, but spectacular results on anything heavier we've taken. (GSCustoms are still the finest I've ever used personally).

The buffalo in a swamp herd of many many animals strikes me as a very very specific and difficult use case. Every time the bullet needs to penetrate deeply, and then stop almost magically so as to avoid an exit. This is no matter if your hitting only a single rib, or a shoulder, or up the tailpipe. Perhaps our bullets need proximity fuses and deployable braking. ;-)

 

[Hornedfrogbbq]

It looks like I'm in the minority when it comes to Barnes bullets. My history with Barnes Bullets dates back to my childhood and young teen years when they were made in Denver using copper tubing with a lead core. My family and myself used them for years even though they we not as accurate as the next generation premium bullet (Partitions and BitterRoot). Not long after Randy Brooks bought Barnes and
came out with the solid copper bullets that have matured to the TSX & TTSX along with several
"copycat variations".
My issues with current Barnes are:
1. Accuracy varies a lot much related to copper fouling and velocity fluctuations.
2. Performance is very inconsistent from expansion and peddle sheading to frequent shoot throughs.
3. Rapid copper fouling that leads to increased pressures and decreasing accuracy.
4. Lot to lot variations in bullet weight

I've purchased many rifles who I either feel or know were sold for reasons #1&3. Most have been customs with high quality barrels that have been so heavily copper fouled they were sold because of
accuracy issues. A Bore scope exam usually tells the story. Former owners will tell you they cleaned the
gun and even went to other brands of bullets and/or ammo with no resolution.
The vast majority of those rifles can be saved but it takes special techniques and care to do it, simple
cleaning even with Cu+ removing solvents isn't enough (and they are often very caustic).
I've personally in the last few years tested several copper bullets incl TSX, in calibers from 25 to 416,
accuracy and pressure issues start to develop as soon as 20 rounds to as much as 60 even from good quality hand lapped barrels, a few cut rifling barrels seam to do better but not always.
I respect those of you who choose to use solid copper bullets for whatever reason, sometimes it's
what you have been told, what a government bureaucrat has forced you to use, lack of availability of another option, or cost (and they are the cheapest "premium"). With proper techniques can they be used (YES) but I'm convinced the average rifle owner doesn't clean their rifle bores well anyway let alone what it takes to use most of the copper bullets available IMHO.

What is your process to fully clean a barrel that is fouled as you describe?

 

[fourfive8]

Early Barnes cup and core bullets were a spare room project turned into a business. Nothing special sbout them. The early smooth-sided monolithic (Brooks) Barnes (original X bullet) were very poor bullets. Actually took them years to listen, learn and redesign that monolithic into a quality hunting bullet… the current TSX form with the banded shank. The banded shank was a game changer.

 

[dchum]

Well written and you echo my experiences with the TSX. I would simply add that I have had and witnessed equal performance with the Swift A Frame. I would also add that of the PH's I have come to know, I only know one that would still recommend solids for follow-up. During that hunt I had two TSX's in my Blaser S2 (in the Zambezi Delta of Mozambique - go figure) and we didn't get to test his personal preference because the bull promptly expired on the first shot.

They also work like the hammer of Thor in smaller calibers on lesser game. I would not use it on a nilgai, but my R8 mounting a .257 WBY firing a 100 gr TSX is the closest thing to a death ray I have ever owned for deer-sized game.

A gentleman shot the North American 29? 26? With a .257 WBY and only 100 gr TTSX. I think he would agree with “death ray” as well haha,

 

[pilar]

Early Barnes cup and core bullets were a spare room project turned into a business. Nothing special sbout them. The early smooth-sided monolithic (Brooks) Barnes (original X bullet) were very poor bullets. Actually took them years to listen, learn and redesign that monolithic into a quality hunting bullet… the current TSX form with the banded shank. The banded shank was a game changer.

Yes those og X where terrible, then they put a weird coating on them to relieve pressure
And then finally made banded , very tricky figuring out loading data back then

 

[BC Tal]

My comment wasn’t anything negative against North Fork, but I thought the comment to say the number of Barnes used in last 30 years will exceed all swifts, north fork, woodleigh combined is ridiculous. Outside South Africa and Namibia, the only quality ammo PHs have is left by clients. You get a good idea what gets used and how frequently by looking at what’s on hand for rental rifles. Barnes doesn’t have nearly that kind of market share although it would be in top 4 or 5.

@375Fox, oh, I certainly didn’t take it as a negative against North Fork at all. I don’t have enough information / experience to determine how much Barnes TSX is used in Africa. My comment is really about my experience with NF and how I believe they will continue to gain market share on safari because they are great bullets for first shots and follow ups.

 

[WyoBull]

I am a Barnes fan but most of my experience outside of Plains Game using my 7mm RUM and Buffalo and Crocodile using my 375 H&H, has been on North American game including varmints.

I reload almost every caliber I shoot with various Barnes bullets and I can say I never have had a failure or lack of performance. I push them pretty hard velocity wise in the calibers I load them for and have a lot of confidence in them.

On my plains game, we shot 13 animals using the Barnes 160 gr TSX and only recovered one bullet and that was on a Blue Wildebeest where the bullet hung up on the opposite shoulder just under the hide after plowing through both front shoulders. Everything else went through and animal and they dropped without taking more that a couple of steps at most.
On my Buffalo and Crocodile, I loaded the 300 gr TSX and recovered both bullets, the first one did it's job taking out the top of the Buff's heart and the second one was just an insurance shot down through the top of his back. Unfortunately, TSA confiscated the two bullets and two spent shell casings because like a dumb a**, I forgot to put them in my locked ammo box and left them in my camera case. I really kick myself for doing that because both of those bullets were textbook Barnes with all 4 petals curled back just like they are supposed to be.

On North American game such as elk, deer and antelope, the TTSX and LRX bullets perform as advertised and I have absolutely no reason to even look at anything else to reload but Barnes. Until they fail me and I determine the reason was the bullet and not me, I will be in the Barnes camp.

 

[steve white]

What is your process to fully clean a barrel that is fouled as you describe?

KG 12 is a chemical engineering marvel IMO. It cleans copper down to bare steel without ammonia or abrasives. It leaves a brown powdery residue and is harmless to chrome moly barrels. Cannot recommend it enough!

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I’m sure the Barnes TSX is a good bullet, but I have never felt compelled to jump on the Barnes bandwagon. I like Swift A Frames and see no reason to switch.