POI differences 458 Lott different brands of ammo/advice for upcoming elephant & buffalo hunt

[BJH65]

Sorry wasn’t exactly sure how to word the title. So I booked a non trophy bull elephant 25 lbs & buffalo hunt in the Greater Kruger on short notice to take advantage of an excellent price for the hunt. Hunt’s just 2 1/2 months away! I’ll be using my custom Brno 458 Lott which I previously sighted in dead on at 50 yards with 500 grain Barnes TSX and Barnes round nose banded solids, same POI (point of impact).

Specifically for elephant, I decided to change to Federal 500 grain Woodleigh Hydro solid and acquired some ammo. Did some shooting today and sighted it dead on the bullseye at 50 yards. Then, I followed up with some Barnes factory 500 grain TSX, which I had in mind to use for buffalo. After I shot, I was surprised to see the POI was between 5-6 inches higher! Shit! I was hoping to take some of the 500 grain TSX for buffalo.

I had some Hornady 458 Lott 500 grain DGX bonded lying around so I tried that. Wow, much better, little over an inch higher POI, dead on. I’d prefer to use the TSX for buffalo but I don’t want to mess with adjusting the scope. My PH recommends the Woodleigh Hydro solid for elephant and said it was perfectly fine to use on buffalo too.

So right now, the plan is to take 458 Lott 500 grain Woodleigh Hydro solid and use on elephant and buffalo if an opportunity for an old buffalo bull presents itself and that’s what I have in the chamber, otherwise I’ll plan on using Hornady 500 grain DGX bonded on Buffalo at least for the first shot.

I could go back to the Barnes 500 grain TSX and Barnes 500 grain RN banded solids since they hit to the same POI? My PH is fine with them too but highly recommends the Woodleigh Hydro solid for elephant (which is what he uses in his 458 Lott for backup and likes their performance) plus some here have criticized the Barnes RN banded solid for not tracking straight.

Per my PH, I’ll be taking a brain shot, preferably a side brain shot. So I’ll be practicing on those.

Thanks for any feedback.

Brendon

 

[Flipper Dude]

I would stay away from any RN solid, given the data that’s out there. So shoot ‘em both with the Woodleigh solid or kill the ele and rezero for the Barnes TSX. (That’s best case for me). If you’re shooting the solid for the buff, you need to be extra fine on shot placement. At least that’s my thinking

 

[375Fox]

Every PH has their own opinions. I generally don’t disagree with a PH that I made the decision to hunt with. I take their recommendations. I think all your options are acceptable if your PH is good with it especially in 458 Lott. I can’t link it or it will get deleted, but it was interesting to hear in recent TIA podcast with Buzz Charlton. He said all modern solids are good and said bullet discussions bore him.

You might find this interesting. This was my 375 H&H with different 300 gr factory loads. It really caught me off guard because I planned to use the top and bottom TBBC federal ammo together (different ammo lines). I initially assumed it wouldn’t be more than an inch or so off, but it was significantly different too. I’ve never seen such a large difference with same weight bullet in smaller calibers before.

 

[BJH65]

I would stay away from any RN solid, given the data that’s out there. So shoot ‘em both with the Woodleigh solid or kill the ele and rezero for the Barnes TSX. (That’s best case for me). If you’re shooting the solid for the buff, you need to be extra fine on shot placement. At least that’s my thinking

Thanks, definitely an option.

 

[BJH65]

Every PH has their own opinions. I generally don’t disagree with a PH that I made the decision to hunt with. I take their recommendations. I think all your options are acceptable if your PH is good with it especially in 458 Lott. I can’t link it or it will get deleted, but it was interesting to hear in recent TIA podcast with Buzz Charlton. He said all modern solids are good and said bullet discussions bore him.

You might find this interesting. This was my 375 H&H with different 300 gr factory loads. It really caught me off guard because I planned to use the top and bottom TBBC federal ammo together (different ammo lines). I initially assumed it wouldn’t be more than an inch or so off, but it was significantly different too. I’ve never seen such a large difference with same weight bullet in smaller calibers before.
View attachment 704498

Thanks for the feedback. I was shocked by the variation with the same bullet weights, 500 grains. The top round in the photo is the Barnes 500 grain TSX and bottom round in the bullseye is the 500 grain Woodleigh Hydro solid. Windage is good but not the elevation! Huge discrepancy for the same bullet weight. Shot at 50 yards.

 

[dchum]

Thanks for the feedback. I was shocked by the variation with the same bullet weights, 500 grains. The top round in the photo is the Barnes 500 grain TSX and bottom round in the bullseye is the 500 grain Woodleigh Hydro solid. Windage is good but not the elevation! Huge discrepancy for the same bullet weight. Shot at 50 yards.

View attachment 704499

That really is bizarre/surprising for 50 yards!

 

[BJH65]

That really is bizarre/surprising for 50 yards!

Right! Both are mono metal bullets too! I thought they would be fairly close but nope! I did shoot a second time just to be sure, same POI.

 

[sureshot375]

I’m I would try to find a product family that offers softs and solids.

I would try DGS/dgx combo.

Or maybe something from the federal premium ammo line.

have you checked with Pendleton ammo? They may be able to get you a quality solid/expanding combo with a reasonably similar POI.

 

[BJH65]

I’m I would try to find a product family that offers softs and solids.

I would try DGS/dgx combo.

Or maybe something from the federal premium ammo line.

have you checked with Pendleton ammo? They may be able to get you a quality solid/expanding combo with a reasonably similar POI.

With the 500 grain Hornady DGX bonded only about 1.5 inches higher POI than the 500 grain Woodleigh Hydro solid, I’m comfortable with using them on buffalo and the Hydros on elephant. They both hit close enough together and I shouldn’t have to adjust my scope. Initially, I was a little uncertain on the Hornady DGX bonded for buffalo, some here on AH do not care for them, but after some research I would be comfortable using them on buffalo. I’m not certain I’ll hunt anymore elephants after this hunt but I do see myself hunting more buffalo and I would definitely go back to the 500 grain Barnes TSX and re sight in my rifle for future buffalo hunts.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

I ran into the same issues with my 458 Lott.
I finally found that Swift 500 Aframes and Swift Breakaway solids were the right combo. At 50 yds 1/2 in POI. 100 yards 1.5 poi. That I can live with. Main reason I found is need both to have close to the same velocity and you will be good.
You might try the Federal TBBC to go with Woodleigh solid. I had decent results with that combo also.

 

[Altitude sickness]

A chronograph would add more information into the discussion. Different brands have often had different velocities for me.

I recommend calling Hendershots ammo. Tell him your barrel length and rifling twist. Or tell him what the rifle is and he will know.

Tell him you want CEB solids and safari raptors loaded to the same POI.


Here are my CEB solids and Safari raptors. At 100 yards from a very solid rest. 3 shots of each

Basically the same POI. After testing the group, I dialed the scope to the bull’s-eye.

 

[BJH65]

I ran into the same issues with my 458 Lott.
I finally found that Swift 500 Aframes and Swift Breakaway solids were the right combo. At 50 yds 1/2 in POI. 100 yards 1.5 poi. That I can live with. Main reason I found is need both to have close to the same velocity and you will be good.
You might try the Federal TBBC to go with Woodleigh solid. I had decent results with that combo also.

Thanks Mark, that’s an excellent suggestion about the Federal TBBC, I’ll have to try some if I can find a box. I’ve always been a fan of TBBC. That’s very good results for the Swift bullets in your Lott. The Swift Breakaway solids seem similar to the Woodleigh Hydro solid too.

 

[BJH65]

A chronograph would add more information into the discussion. Different brands have often had different velocities for me.

I recommend calling Hendershots ammo. Tell him your barrel length and rifling twist. Or tell him what the rifle is and he will know.

Tell him you want CEB solids and safari raptors loaded to the same POI.


Here are my CEB solids and Safari raptors. At 100 yards from a very solid rest. 3 shots of each

Basically the same POI. After testing the group, I dialed the scope to the bull’s-eye.

Thanks for your suggestion. Those are excellent groups for two bullet types. Can’t get better than that! I did consider both Hendershot’s and Pendleton custom loading softs and solids, specifically CEB and Northfork, but first would need sample loads to insure they feed and function in my custom Brno 458 Lott, then test for accuracy and at only 2 1/2 months away from my elephant and buffalo hunt, while there’s time I guess I would just prefer to have more. This hunt was just booked without much advance notice!

Right now, at 50 yards, there is a 1.5 inch difference between the 500 grain Hornady DGX bonded and 500 grain Woodleigh Hydro solid. A little more than I’d like but good enough for minute of buffalo. I guess I should ask, could you live with that?

 

[Nhoro]

My brother has used Hornady DGS for upwards of 18 elephant with his 416 rigby. Others on the forum have used DGX on buffalo with success. That is an option, probably not popular with some forum members. Personally I think woodleigh/ DGX combo is a good one. Take the tsx in your bag and rezero after your elephant.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I would give them a call. They can build it to the lenght you need

and they know if they need to shorten it for the bullet designed to feed correctly out of your rifle.

He will also send you test loads without having to spend a bunch of money

 

[BJH65]

My brother has used Hornady DGS for upwards of 18 elephant with his 416 rigby. Others on the forum have used DGX on buffalo with success. That is an option, probably not popular with some forum members. Personally I think woodleigh/ DGX combo is a good one. Take the tsx in your bag and rezero after your elephant.

I agree with you and Flipper Dude, re zeroing the TSX is an excellent option, however it’s possible we may encounter an old dagga boy while hunting elephant and then I’ll either use the Woodleigh Hydro solid or if there is time, slip in a Hornady DGX for the first shot, no time for re zeroing. If I stick with this plan , I guess it wouldn’t hurt to bring some TSX rounds just in case, they are my favorite for buffalo, but not sure about bringing 3 different bullet types, giving Murphy’s Law more of a chance, I like following the KISS principle.

 

[BJH65]

Thanks for the feedback gents, always appreciated. Since my PH favors the 500 grain Woodleigh Hydro solid for elephant (fine for buff too) and it’s sighted in, reliable and accurate, I’ll stick with them and use on buffalo if necessary. While I can live with the 1 1/2”difference in POI at 50 yards with the 500 grain Hornady DGX bonded for use on buffalo, I somehow found a box of Federal 500 grain TBBC online so I’m hoping they’ll have similar POI to the Federal 500 grain Hydro solids. Fingers crossed. No shade on the DGX but I’d rather use the TBBC on buffalo.

 

[RR 314]

Inch and a half point of impact change is less than a lot of guys see with their double rifles, from right to left, shooting the same ammo. Use whatever you feel comfortable with, but nothing wrong with sticking with the hydros for the entire hunt per your PH.

Edit: just saw your last reply. Have at it.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Maybe it’s just me, and maybe it’s cause I’m strange (ask the wife), but if I’m hunting elephant, I’m hunting elephant. If I come across a killer buffalo while hunting elephant, he can consider it his lucky day and I’ll try to catch him later. This will probably keep me from killing a stud buff one day, but I want to give each animal his due. Silly, I know. I’ll shoot an impala or a warthog as an end to a day, but I’m hunting for good memories of a buffalo or elephant. Take that for what’s it’s worth, and also that I’m 3/4 through a killer martini made by my sweet wife and waiting on me in the freezer when I came home.

 

[BJH65]

Inch and a half point of impact change is less than a lot of guys see with their double rifles, from right to left, shooting the same ammo. Use whatever you feel comfortable with, but nothing wrong with sticking with the hydros for the entire hunt per your PH.

Edit: just saw your last reply. Have at it.

Thanks, I’m probably being a little anal about the 1 1/2 POI variation at 50 yards in addition to not really wanting to use DGX bonded on buffalo as my first choice although I’m sure they’ll work just fine.

Altitude Sickness and Mark Biggerstaff were right, here’s listed factory muzzle velocities:

458 Lott Federal 500 grain Woodleigh Hydro Solid - 2300 FPS
458 Lott Federal 500 grain TBBC- 2300 FPS (on order)
458 Lott Barnes 500 grain TSX- 2200 FPS
458 Lott Hornady 500 grain DGX Bonded- 2300 FPS

So that 100 FPS accounted for a huge variance between the Barnes TSX and Woodleigh Hydro Solids, between 5-6 inches worth at 50 yards. I’ll report on the Federal 500 grain TBBC when they arrive, hopefully not too much variance,