Politics

Even more censorship in uk....

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Building modern ships is VERY complicated.

Anyone that has ever built a house knows it’s rare that they come in under budget and on time.

Submarines are in a whole different class of difficulty. US submarines are the most complicated machine ever designed or built, including spacecraft and fighter jets.

Aircraft carriers are not far behind a Sub. Every time somebody wants to upgrade or change one thing it implicates everything else on the ship.

Every square inch has wire, hydraulics, pipes. you add or change one thing it impacts something else. let alone the time it takes to build and technology is changing. Of course military aircraft construction suffers from this same problem.

But aircraft do not need the amount of laborers as an Aircraft Carrier does to build. And isn’t as complicated.

It’s not surprising at all when any military platform is late or over budget.
 
Building modern ships is VERY complicated.

Anyone that has ever built a house knows it’s rare that they come in under budget and on time.

Submarines are in a whole different class of difficulty. US submarines are the most complicated machine ever designed or built, including spacecraft and fighter jets.

Aircraft carriers are not far behind a Sub. Every time somebody wants to upgrade or change one thing it implicates everything else on the ship.

Every square inch has wire, hydraulics, pipes. you add or change one thing it impacts something else. let alone the time it takes to build and technology is changing. Of course military aircraft construction suffers from this same problem.

But aircraft do not need the amount of laborers as an Aircraft Carrier does to build. And isn’t as complicated.

It’s not surprising at all when any military platform is late or over budget.
Military platform development and production is almost impossible. I often wondered how we accomplished anything. We could not possibly run a normal business in the civilian world with the challenges faced by a defense contractor.

During the EMD phase (Engineering and Manufacturing and Development), a period when the contractor is taking the most risk and making the largest unsecured contribution to the effort, funding is allocated incrementally, and the contractor can only plan one or two years out with any remote sense of funding certainty. Often programs never mature from EMD, or they go much slower than originally planned. Because Moore's law applies to tanks, plane and submarines as surely as it applies to your desktop computer, the original capability requirements mat change dramatically during EMD resulting in significant scope change and contract renegotiation against an uncertain funding stream.

If the program moves to low rate initial production (LRIP), then the funding stream becomes a little more secure and certain, usually with a 2 to 3 year predictability glide path. But a new political wind can change that suddenly as the Army discovered when Rumsfeld killed the Crusader artillery program, Hagel killed the Ground Combat Vehicle (GCV), and Hegseth killed the M10 Booker - all of which were about to or already had entered LRIP.

LRIP is also the time when customer new ideas that most affect scope start to impact program progress. Enough time will have passed so that tech capabilities, or joint requirements, or the threat, or even our own doctrine will have changed.

Full rate production, should a program ever reach that stage, is much more predictable, and a company will likely be working against a 5-7 year production contract. There too congress or DOD can step in and reduce annual program spending, inevitably adding to unit production costs.

The B2 bomber is an excellent example. A fleet of 132 were originally planned with production capability scaled to that requirement. George H.W. Bush reduced the requirement to 75 aircraft and Clinton further cut the program to 21. Instead of costs being spread across more than a hundred aircraft, those costs were absorbed by only 21 platforms.

Ships are extremely challenging because they are essentially one-offs. Yes, a particular vessel is representative of a class, but as @Altitude sickness points out, technology and requirement changes affect construction constantly (as of course does funding). For instance, the Gerald Ford - our newest carrier - began construction in 2005 and was commissioned in 2017. A lot happens in 12 years.

In contrast, during WWII the Essex class carrier was the primary fleet carrier. During the war, the Navy took delivery of 17. Obviously, maintaining and launching jet aircraft in the world's current contested battlespace is a far greater challenge, but our development and production system is clearly in need of overhaul.
 
Mixing a product development with a technology development has shown time and again to be a recipe for disaster. From what I've seen a mistake commonly made by those who don't understand the difference between the two, but wish to blend them in an effort to save time and money. The result is usually the opposite.
 
Military platform development and production is almost impossible. I often wondered how we accomplished anything. We could not possibly run a normal business in the civilian world with the challenges faced by a defense contractor.

During the EMD phase (Engineering and Manufacturing and Development), a period when the contractor is taking the most risk and making the largest unsecured contribution to the effort, funding is allocated incrementally, and the contractor can only plan one or two years out with any remote sense of funding certainty. Often programs never mature from EMD, or they go much slower than originally planned. Because Moore's law applies to tanks, plane and submarines as surely as it applies to your desktop computer, the original capability requirements mat change dramatically during EMD resulting in significant scope change and contract renegotiation against an uncertain funding stream.

If the program moves to low rate initial production (LRIP), then the funding stream becomes a little more secure and certain, usually with a 2 to 3 year predictability glide path. But a new political wind can change that suddenly as the Army discovered when Rumsfeld killed the Crusader artillery program, Hagel killed the Ground Combat Vehicle (GCV), and Hegseth killed the M10 Booker - all of which were about to or already had entered LRIP.

LRIP is also the time when customer new ideas that most affect scope start to impact program progress. Enough time will have passed so that tech capabilities, or joint requirements, or the threat, or even our own doctrine will have changed.

Full rate production, should a program ever reach that stage, is much more predictable, and a company will likely be working against a 5-7 year production contract. There too congress or DOD can step in and reduce annual program spending, inevitably adding to unit production costs.

The B2 bomber is an excellent example. A fleet of 132 were originally planned with production capability scaled to that requirement. George H.W. Bush reduced the requirement to 75 aircraft and Clinton further cut the program to 21. Instead of costs being spread across more than a hundred aircraft, those costs were absorbed by only 21 platforms.

Ships are extremely challenging because they are essentially one-offs. Yes, a particular vessel is representative of a class, but as @Altitude sickness points out, technology and requirement changes affect construction constantly (as of course does funding). For instance, the Gerald Ford - our newest carrier - began construction in 2005 and was commissioned in 2017. A lot happens in 12 years.

In contrast, during WWII the Essex class carrier was the primary fleet carrier. During the war, the Navy took delivery of 17. Obviously, maintaining and launching jet aircraft in the world's current contested battlespace is a far greater challenge, but our development and production system is clearly in need of overhaul.


I am experiencing a similar situation with a civilian company. It’s one of the largest Solar farm companies in the country. We have been negotiating a signing contract for easements on my property. Then if and when it gets approval. They pay for construction etc. I also have similar discussions with a wind project.

Both have slowed the aggressive sale pitch and throwing money at me and my nieghbors due to the recent Big Beautiful Bill cutting back on government subsidies of Green projects.

So both of these companies have laid out a lot of money to lock down contracts on large pieces of property and may not ever get that back.
 
To clarify. I’m not a fan of large solar or wind, locking up land on the countryside. But my neighbors had already signed and if it got approved, I was getting them next to me anyway.

so I may as well sign up and take the signing bonus and hope it doesn’t get approved.

They assure me they are still moving forward, but may scale back in some of the less desirable areas
 

This is disturbing and incorrect on several levels.

First, the USSC did not rule that a President is immune from prosecution for illegal acts. It said from legal acts in the line of duty.

Second is the fact that Trump would imply that Obama is in the clear because Trump thinks he got illegal acts approved from the USSC.

So in Trumps mind it’s worth Obama skating so Trump is protected. We should all be ok with what Obama did. Ordered a handful of top intelligence officers to try to overthrow the presidency. So Trump to have his immunity we should be ok with what Obama did.

No ! Both should go to prison if they break the law. And it’s clear Obama did.
 
It seems that military R&D and production timeline and requirements with longevity of service are changing… rapidly! Throwing a few billion or trillion at a new weapons system project or basic, established platform that takes a couple to ten years to put into production, only to be obsolete when finally online isn’t going to work. Small scale systems that are quickly adaptable seem the future, IMO. No matter what the politicians, lobbyists and fat contractors say :):). IIRC, I think Musk was hinting at that and no one paid much attention. My imagination or not? Quite the chess game now of staying ahead of and out guessing an enemy like China.
 

This is disturbing and incorrect on several levels.

First, the USSC did not rule that a President is immune from prosecution for illegal acts. It said from legal acts in the line of duty.

Second is the fact that Trump would imply that Obama is in the clear because Trump thinks he got illegal acts approved from the USSC.

So in Trumps mind it’s worth Obama skating so Trump is protected. We should all be ok with what Obama did. Ordered a handful of top intelligence officers to try to overthrow the presidency. So Trump to have his immunity we should be ok with what Obama did.

No ! Both should go to prison if they break the law. And it’s clear Obama did.

Critical thinking like that will get you nowhere in today's world ya know!
 
Another democrat drama queen looking for his 15 minutes of attention. One of the usual suspects.

 
It seems that military R&D and production timeline and requirements with longevity of service are changing… rapidly! Throwing a few billion or trillion at a new weapons system project or basic, established platform that takes a couple to ten years to put into production, only to be obsolete when finally online isn’t going to work. Small scale systems that are quickly adaptable seem the future, IMO. No matter what the politicians, lobbyists and fat contractors say :):). IIRC, I think Musk was hinting at that and no one paid much attention. My imagination or not? Quite the chess game now of staying ahead of and out guessing an enemy like China.

Easier said than done. With regards to your fat contractors comment, superior technology over sheer volume is part of how Reagan brought Russia down militarily. Russia tried to make up for inferior technology with volume.

That said a quicker to service product that is also flexible to be more easily retrofitted as technology improves is a win for both the military and the contractor. These huge contracts that last many years carry a great deal of risk for both if the project fails, regardless of who was at fault. And often both the military and contractor share blame.

When one of these projects fail, it is just bad for everyone. People lose jobs, technology falls behind as well as the edge our military may hold. A simpler design that both leads to a better system but can more easily be upgraded in the future is best for both.

But it is a damn difficult thing to achieve.
 
So in Trumps mind it’s worth Obama skating so Trump is protected. We should all be ok with what Obama did. Ordered a handful of top intelligence officers to try to overthrow the presidency.
But did he order them? Also, if Obama was POTUS at the time he would not be overthrowing the Presidency even if it was true? :unsure:
 

This is disturbing and incorrect on several levels.

First, the USSC did not rule that a President is immune from prosecution for illegal acts. It said from legal acts in the line of duty.

Second is the fact that Trump would imply that Obama is in the clear because Trump thinks he got illegal acts approved from the USSC.

So in Trumps mind it’s worth Obama skating so Trump is protected. We should all be ok with what Obama did. Ordered a handful of top intelligence officers to try to overthrow the presidency. So Trump to have his immunity we should be ok with what Obama did.

No ! Both should go to prison if they break the law. And it’s clear Obama did.
Protected from what is my first thot, maybe a get out of jail free card. They already impeached him 2 twice with out success the first time. Epstein is a dead issue, literally and figuratively. so more of a play of words, but TULSI ISNT BACKING DOWN, and neither is BONGINO, OBAMA needs to answer for his crimes., and certainly BRENNAN and the rest of the cabal.
 
USA/EU trade bill finalized.

EU will…..
Purchase $750Bil in energy from USA
Invest an additional $600Bil
Open EU markets to agriculture and autos
15% reciprocal tariffs
Purchase military equipment from USA

Ursula Von Der Leyen said…
“Tough negotiations, but it was a big and good deal for both sides.”
 
^^^ people often make the mistake of saying how many ships we pumped out in World War II, but those were just rough generic hulls built as “torpedo fodder”
Not an Essex class carrier.
 
It seems that military R&D and production timeline and requirements with longevity of service are changing… rapidly! Throwing a few billion or trillion at a new weapons system project or basic, established platform that takes a couple to ten years to put into production, only to be obsolete when finally online isn’t going to work. Small scale systems that are quickly adaptable seem the future, IMO. No matter what the politicians, lobbyists and fat contractors say :):). IIRC, I think Musk was hinting at that and no one paid much attention. My imagination or not? Quite the chess game now of staying ahead of and out guessing an enemy like China.
That is a common refrain. Could you point to a single weapon system fielded by this country in the last forty years that was obsolete when fielded? Fat contractors?!? I listed average margins for several of the majors - could you make a business work on a 10-12 net margin?
 

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