Ethnic cleansing, South Africa says the quiet part out loud

[GuttormG]

Hell I want reparations from the Scandinavians those Viking bastards

What
Come on...We just saved silver and other valuable stuff from fires!

 

[schwerpunkt88]

I remember in the late 1980s when there were "divest from South Africa" protests all over Columbia University. Felt a lot like today. They see the world through a different lens...

 

[Nyati]

English Colonists Graves

English Colonists Graveyard 1010 Girard Established 1600s ? © 0.25 acres 40 – 60 graves “…undiscover’d country from whose bourne, no t…

historichouston1836.com

Never heard of that before !

I know about Alonso Alvarez de Pineda, who claimed Texas for the spanish Crown in 1519.

Alvar Nuñez Cabeza de Vaca was there 1528-1535.

And the French built the Fort of Saint Louis in Matagorda Bay, 1685, found abandoned in 1689 by

Alonso de León who built the Mission of San Francisco de los Tejes nearby in 1690

 

[Nyati]

South Africans leaving their country now are professionals and other employees who cannot find a job, as Labor Laws in RSA state that jobs have to go to blacks first.

 

[RLD]

It is insane. How do you decide what profits are a direct result of that unjust system? Equitable.. A woke buzzword. Your mindset is behind just about every problem the West has at the moment.

I a lawyer who represents children who were sexually abused against their abusers and the institutions that allowed/enabled it to happen.

My mindset is bringing justice to some of society's must vulnerable and harmed victims. I am proud of, and very happy with the work I do.

The word "equitable" has a meaning centuries older than how some groups of Americans chose to use it now. The english does not revolve around the last 15 minutes in America.

The woke meaning of the word "equity" (ie equality of outcome) is useless. Impossible and impractical.

The traditional meaning of the word, basically meaning "fairness or justice" is just fine thanks.

 

[RLD]

I forgot how insane Canada is. Did you do something wrong to them yourself? Back to RSA, a lot of whites have left since apartheid ended. Is their former home going to pursue reparations against them? How’s that work? And, if not, how’s that “fair” to the remaining whites in RSA? See how ridiculous it gets

Funny, the U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled that almost half of Oklahoma remains unceded Indian lands and you think Canada is insane. That ruling alone in due time may have more financial impact than all of the Canadian programs put together.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I a lawyer who represents children who were sexually abused against their abusers and the institutions that allowed/enabled it to happen.

My mindset is bringing justice to some of society's must vulnerable and harmed victims. I am proud of, and very happy with the work I do.

The word "equitable" has a meaning centuries older than how some groups of Americans chose to use it now. The english does not revolve around the last 15 minutes in America.

The woke meaning of the word "equity" (ie equality of outcome) is useless. Impossible and impractical.

The traditional meaning of the word, basically meaning "fairness or justice" is just fine thanks.

You’re comparing apples to oranges when you’re speaking of victims of abuse and apartheid. You expressed a sound viewpoint on slavery reparations that I agree with. There are plenty of black Americans still alive who experienced life in America before the civil rights act passed. Not dissimilar to apartheid. Are they entitled to some sort of compensation?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Funny, the U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled that almost half of Oklahoma remains unceded Indian lands and you think Canada is insane. That ruling alone in due time may have more financial impact than all of the Canadian programs put together.

That’s a valid point. I live in the Chickasaw “nation”. Most of them don’t have enough Indian blood to fill up their pinky toe. I once worked with a Cherokee who blood quantum was 1/256th. A byproduct of a flaw in the Dawes act. I don’t agree with much that the Indians are able to do. We do need to honor treaties but there’s a lot of outdated policy that could be revisited

 

[DieJager]

Funny, the U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled that almost half of Oklahoma remains unceded Indian lands and you think Canada is insane. That ruling alone in due time may have more financial impact than all of the Canadian programs put together.

As a lawyer, which you seem to be, my advice as a non lawyer would to read the case you are citing. That case has nothing to do with the point you are trying to make.

Giving back that land is not because it is in the name of justice in the sense that is some sort of reparation for historical wrongdoing. But because the Treaty that was made was still valid and was breached. So indeed apples and oranges.

In a lot of places of South Africa even the Afrikaners where there first instead of the black bantus.

If you want to argue for race based laws be my guest. But not in the name of righting a perceived wrong. That's not it.

 

[RLD]

You’re comparing apples to oranges when you’re speaking of victims of abuse and apartheid. You expressed a sound viewpoint on slavery reparations that I agree with. There are plenty of black Americans still alive who experienced life in America before the civil rights act passed. Not dissimilar to apartheid. Are they entitled to some sort of compensation?

The native Canadian experience is not that different to Apartheid. They both involved government efforts to reduce an ethnic group to second class citizens by the state that caused those groups serious harm. I just happen to specialize in the sexual abuse aspect of it. But it was the same kind of racist based policies that caused both sets of problems.

On the issue of American blacks seeking direct redress for racist abuse they suffered before the Civil Rights Act passed, I don't see any problem with someone who was harmed by say the local sheriff kicking the snot out of them for drinking from the wrong water fountain bringing suit against the Sheriff and his department if the victim is still around. A country like America has massive judicial resources and documentary sources to allow that sort of thing to be done efficiently on a case by case basis. The one caveat being that there might be limitation period issues that could bar the suit. That would go state by state IIRC.

 

[RLD]

As a lawyer, which you seem to be, my advice as a non lawyer would to read the case you are citing. That case has nothing to do with the point you are trying to make.

Giving back that land is not because it is in the name of justice in the sense that is some sort of reparation for historical wrongdoing. But because the Treaty that was made was still valid and was breached. So indeed apples and oranges.

In a lot of places of South Africa even the Afrikaners where there first instead of the black bantus.

If you want to argue for race based laws be my guest. But not in the name of righting a perceived wrong. That's not it.

Not only have I read the case, one of the lead lawyers for the Indian Nations is a friend of mine. I was particularly impressed by the obiter of Roberts on the broader issues he sees coming from it.

You are right, this particular case is not central to the question of how to redress historical wrongs. But I used it as a rejoinder to the suggestion that the amount of money Canada was giving to native Canadians was "insane."

The fact that (at least to me) that Africaners are uniquely African, rather than colonial powers, and may have occupied lands before the bantus and others does not give them a pass for treating blacks (and coloureds I might add) as less than full humans.

I am totally against race based laws. But Apartheid was race based and targeted against racial groups. The individuals and communities who were harmed by that unjust law should have the right to seek redress for that harm. The fact that the victims of that law were all members of certain racial groups was not random, it was the choice of the governing powers. Those groups became victims because the government targeted them for harm. The government of South Africa created a group of racially unified victims with Apartheid. It's a subtle distinction but I think an important one.

 

[DieJager]

The fact that (at least to me) that Africaners are uniquely African, rather than colonial powers, and may have occupied lands before the bantus and others does not give them a pass for treating blacks (and coloureds I might add) as less than full humans.

No sir definitely not. Thanks for clarifying your views.

My understanding was that you were advocating for the current race based laws targeting Afrikaners as compensation for the wrongs that the Apartheid state inflicted at the black population.

As a side note, but a lot of blacks immigrated to South Africa knowingly that it was a Apartheid state but saw economic opportunities for them and their families. By this I am not condoning the Apartheid but this bring even more nuance into this discussion regarding some form of compensation.

 

[Rafiki]

Very thought provoking post as usual Habib.

I will disagree with the one point quoted above. The Chinese are on a very active and aggressive campaign globally, in some areas more than others. But, they clearly appear to have an appetite to be a global level player coupled with ambition, ruthlessness, and growing military power.

When I was in Tanzania, an older Masai gentleman I was chatting with commented that he wished the Brits would come back and in be in charge. He said the Brits gave them jobs, helped them produce food, drilled water wells, built schools and helped provide medical care, especially for their children. He said now the Chinese are moving in, bring their own workers from China, do nothing to help the locals, and destroy everything they touch.

Doubt he will make the nightly news coverage, but that is the reality on the ground from someone living there.

Thank you for sharing an excellent post as usual Habib.

Interesting. I also hunt Tanzania and have friends there. We've talked extensively on the plight the country finds itself in.

The Chinese Belts & Roads initiative is not some benevolent development program to help counties with infrastructure issues. Countries that sign up for B&R projects are basically enslaving themselves through massive debt to China and receive shoddy work and environmental issues in return.

My contacts also have openly said that achieving independence from western colonizers has not brought the promise of successful majority rule over these many, many years. They too would relish the stability that the western colonizers brought

 

[Rafiki]

Not only have I read the case, one of the lead lawyers for the Indian Nations is a friend of mine. I was particularly impressed by the obiter of Roberts on the broader issues he sees coming from it.

You are right, this particular case is not central to the question of how to redress historical wrongs. But I used it as a rejoinder to the suggestion that the amount of money Canada was giving to native Canadians was "insane."

The fact that (at least to me) that Africaners are uniquely African, rather than colonial powers, and may have occupied lands before the bantus and others does not give them a pass for treating blacks (and coloureds I might add) as less than full humans.

I am totally against race based laws. But Apartheid was race based and targeted against racial groups. The individuals and communities who were harmed by that unjust law should have the right to seek redress for that harm. The fact that the victims of that law were all members of certain racial groups was not random, it was the choice of the governing powers. Those groups became victims because the government targeted them for harm. The government of South Africa created a group of racially unified victims with Apartheid. It's a subtle distinction but I think an important one.

The only ones that win are the lawyers.

 

[luger6]

Are white South Africans facing a genocide as Donald Trump claims?

US President Donald Trump says a genocide is taking place in South Africa, a claim a judge dismissed as "imaginary".

www.bbc.com

 

[spike.t]

The only ones that win are the lawyers.

Standard.....

 

[wesheltonj]

The only ones that win are the lawyers.

Praise, God and the rest of the supreme beings.

 

[spike.t]

Kids got his head screwed on OK....

 

[henkg]

Follow the injustice here:

Break The Silence About South Africa

Break The Silence About South Africa. 101,686 likes · 81,521 talking about this. SILENCE won't help anyone. EVERYONE needs to talk about it. Put YOUR VOICE out there. Pronouns: We told you so.

www.facebook.com

 

[Dirtdart]

Kids got his head screwed on OK....

Well said