Hunting Ethics Of Taking Female Animals In Africa

[coreydb]

I agree with Inkgardner. Game management is crucial to maintain a balance in the species, but to shoot one and call it a Daggaboy? BS! Howbout Daggagirl

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I agree with Inkgardner. Game management is crucial to maintain a balance in the species, but to shoot one and call it a Daggaboy? BS! Howbout Daggagirl

And just like that a new phrase was coined

 

[Hillbilly Marine]

The true trophy is the hunt, the experience, the sheer enjoyment of being in nature as a participant vice observer.

What exactly is the ultimate trophy? An animal that was hunted in a fair chase and was fully legal, particularly one that is old and wise, is a trophy. I have targeted a specific doe who was smarter than any buck I have ever matched with with. Once again, legal and fair chase.

I absolutely love to chase squirrels and, in the last 55 years or so, have taken hundreds (maybe thousand) of females. And I have never ever asked myself if the one in my sites was a male or female. There is no difference in the experience.

Perhaps one day I may have the money and wherewithall to chase a big Bull elephant or maybe not. I do see the experience value in a tuskless cow at 1/3 to 1/2 the price,.as long as it is fair chase and legal.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Two trips to Africa, 2 cow buffalo. Yeah, I'm fine with it. They definitely rank as trophies to me.

I have killed a fair number of cow caribou and whitetail does. Some of them I consider trophies. One cow, I camped in an unheated tent in below zero for that hunt, and I rolled her with a running shot at a hundred yards, just ahead of a blizzard, and it was well below zero. Yes, I consider her a trophy and her antlers are on my wall.

 

[PARA45]

My first animal shot in Africa was a female Gemsbok, the PH was super excited and truthfully I didn’t know the difference. It was a huge animal with very long horns. PH was very happy and so was I.

 

[Field28]

My first animal shot in Africa was a female Gemsbok, the PH was super excited and truthfully I didn’t know the difference. It was a huge animal with very long horns. PH was very happy and so was I.

We share the same experience!
I thought it was fitting that my first African animal was a Gemsbok even though it was an old female. The Gemsbok was such an iconic African animal that i had admired for so long, it didn't matter the sex!

 

[Field28]

That solid body, long horns and painted face of the Gemsbok only solidified my addiction and infatuation for the Continent and game that resides there!

 

[Javaman]

My first animal shot in Africa was a female Gemsbok, the PH was super excited and truthfully I didn’t know the difference. It was a huge animal with very long horns. PH was very happy and so was I.

My same experience, +1!

 

[Javaman]

We share the same experience!
I thought it was fitting that my first African animal was a Gemsbok even though it was an old female. The Gemsbok was such an iconic African animal that i had admired for so long, it didn't matter the sex!

+1, completely agree!

 

[CoElkHunter]

When I was a kid there was a taboo about shooting whitetail does. Now it's an everyday thing.

I wouldn’t want to go shoot a female Sitatunga or something of that nature but would have no problem shooting a female springbok or impala for camp meat.

Female Gemsbok, thoughts?

The only gemsbok I’ve taken was an old female past breeding age according to my PH. She was by herself and had decent horns. My PH said the horn bases were as wide as many male gemsbok he has seen. At the start of my Safari, I told my PH I would prefer taking older animals if possible and for the most part it worked out that way, including an old battle scarred bushbuck. I really enjoyed hunting that bushbuck after my one opportunity to do so.

 

[BGGMKLR]

No firestorm intended, just my 2 cents.
The fact that we are even discussing the aspect of females...of any species in Africa...as being considered to be "trophies" is mind- boggling to me. As well as the idea of "management".
I have to assume that the debate is solely restricted to game farms, ranches, privately held "livestock" so to speak.
Predators in "wild" Africa have been very successfully managing the wildlife (with the exception of Ele) since time immemorial.
Plains game aside, and particularly in reference to Buff, it is ( again, in my opinion) strictly a money game.
Take any survey you wish, poll everyone at SCI and DSC conventions, and the answer is clear. Of those who dream of Africa, what is the #1 animal on the wish list?
Buff.
By a lot. The #2 most wanted comes in a far distant 2nd.
Of those who can afford the luxury of a 1st, possibly only Safari, many still cannot write the check for a real- deal, take- your- chances, Buff hunt in the wild.
So, given the fact that Outfitters and freelance PH's offer hunts from an income- producing viewpoint...what is the solution?
Offer affordable discounted hunts for cows and young soft-bossed immature bulls.
I have no qualms with anyone who chooses (or can only afford) to take this route to secure a lifelong dream.
But...again...IMHO... for me...a proper Buff hunt takes place in wild, unfenced country, on foot, occasionaly for days, with no guarentee of results.
If the main impetus for the hunt is to be able to tell your friends "I got a Cape Buffalo" i will concur that there are many more affordable options than what I have chosen.
Best
Spike

 

[Tanks]

Well my first and only Safari to date was for a Tuskless cow in Zimbabwe, I feel as though I gained valuable experience by doing so and I can tell that a bull hunt will be in my future some day.

...

In reality female elephants are more dangerous than the bulls. I personally do not have an issue with taking a female as long as they do not have young ones or not pregnant (if one can see) if part of the management plan. Also, if one is going for a skin etc.. for example a female Zebra skin has less scars etc..

 

[Bejane]

overpopulatin of elephants in some places (Zim) so cows need to be thinned out, Although personally i dont like shooting Ele cows, herd structure is very family orientated and I dont think it's nice to shoot Ele cows, just my 2c, would prefer culling like they did in 80s etc

Buff in Zim, carrying capacity in some areas could be more so for me, no cow hunting, although most areas get few cows on quota every year. In conservancies and high fenced areas (RSA) carrying capacity could be restricted because of food source etc, so fair game to thin out the numbers.

 

[Kharn]

From Day one of my Africa adventures the taking of females and immature males is /was strictly taboo. I now notice some species, Cape Buffalo, hunting companies are offering female Capes for 1/3 the cost of a trophy Bull. It seems the market is there from USA Hunters.
How do you feel about this kind of hunting?
I recently experienced a hunter who shot across a small canyon made a good one shot kill, and now says he has taken a Daggaboy! How do others feel about this?

(Not Africa But...)

Last night I watched an (old) episode of "MeatEater" where Joe Rogan and his friend went on their first deer hunts, it was explicitly stated by the ranch owner that the goal animals are DOEs only and if a Buck is shot then the shooter is humiliated and has to wear a silly hat for the rest of the trip (if a Buck is shot again, the individual is asked to leave and not invited back).

The ranch owner then went on to explain the why Does only and it was about trying to give the Pine Trees he grows on the property some leverage to grow because the Does really love to eat the bulbs of the young tree (killing the tree).

Having said all that I don't think people in America call shooting a DOE shooting a BUCK?...

In Australia too name a few...
Kangaroo - Doe = Female & Buck = Male
Pigs - Sow = Female & Boar = Male
Red Deer - Hind = Female & Stag = Male
Goats - Nanny = Female & Billy = Male

 

[Sabre]

Reading the original post, the original statement was that he saw a hunter shoot across a canyon and make a one shot kill. He doesn't specify if it was an immature bull, a cow, or a mature bull. I felt like he was saying that shooting a buffalo from far away isn't actually buffalo hunting. Could be wrong, but that's how I understood that part.

Anyone acting like it is "unethical" to shoot a legal female game animal is absurd. It might not be your preference, and that's fine. But, nothing about it is unethical. If there is a quota for it in a wild environment, there is a reason and a need for management. If it is in a game farm, it is for management.

If hunters don't shoot females that need managed land owners or government just send people in to do culls anyway.

 

[BryceM]

It’s sort of a dumb question, IMO.

Not all mature bull buffalo are Dugga boys. Let’s start there.

Zebra & Gemsbok - females can be perfectly legitimate trophies. Better to shoot stallions/bulls, but only by a bit.

Most PG - females can be hunted, but only if it’s rational for the population in that area. In truly wild areas I’d be hard pressed to hunt females on purpose except for maybe hyena and elephant, again, depending on the population dynamics of that area.

I’ve hunted, at the landowners request, female kudu, hartebeest, gemsbok, warthog, springbok, and duiker. This is usually to provide meat when the animals are overpopulated. My good friend who is a PH and I have had plenty of discussions on this. In ranch areas, absent drought or disease, where there is minimal predation, he says about 1/5 to 1/6 of the animals need to be removed every year. There’s no way to do that shooting only males. None of it is wasted…… so how is this an ethical question?

The short version of this is “I need to remove about 100 springbok”. “I’m here to help.”

As for the rest of ethics…… I know what mine are. I’m not sure what yours are. As long as we’re honest about what we’re doing, follow the law, act in a safe manner, minimize the suffering of animals, act in sustainable ways, support each other, and encourage the continued enjoyment of this way of life, there’s plenty of room between the guardrails to have lots of enjoyment.

 

[grand veneur]

This all has nothing to do with ethics; we all agree that the shooting of female game is necessary to regulate a wild population. A controversy may arise regarding Africa because, for decades, trophy hunting for clients has been the main focus on this continent. For a short time now, clients have been offered the opportunity to hunt female game, which was previously carried out by locals or professionals. There is nothing wrong with that, also nothing unethical and something like this could be a cheaper alternative to trophy hunting for many hunters, but then these should also stop dreaming about traditional hunting in Africa. We do in this case everyday work that is far removed from what some people still imagine traditional hunting for clients in Africa to be.

 

[Field28]

From what I've always been told, the female Gemsbok horns are longer while the males tend to be thicker. Idk

 

[375Fox]

From what I've always been told, the female Gemsbok horns are longer while the males tend to be thicker. Idk

It’s true. In a particular area, cow horns can tend to be longer than bulls, but I don’t think nearly as impressive because the bulls have so much more mass. I see a lot of mid 30s cows taken though. There should be bulls available in that size range. 40+ I can understand maybe taking a cow with long horns, but I think many are taken out of convenience.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

This old gal was age 25. She hadn't calved in four years and lost the last two. Also at the end of a seven year drought. She was wasting valuable range. Needed to go and I helped her along with a 110 yard frontal heart shot. It was not a long stalk but difficult and dangerous. The herd bull took offense at me shooting granny. He came for us three times.