Politics

I dont disagree.. but there are creative solutions out there if people are willing to look for them...

For example, the avg cost to pursue an MBA from a typical state school in the US is about $60K right now (tuition, books etc.. that figure does not include housing, meal plans, parking, etc..etc..).. .

you can pursue an MBA from an accredited, brick and mortar, well regarded school in the UK however for about $15K (complete the degree online).. Some are as low as $13K..

The problem with student loan debt is a combination of students for the last several years chasing degrees that bring no tangible value in the job market and the "American" education system selling the insane idea that students need the "complete" education experience which includes a lazy river, world class gym, a food court with 15 different commercial options for lunch, etc..etc..

I think the brits actually have the right idea.. you go to school to learn shit.. if you want to join a gym, awesome, go into town and join a gym.. if you want 35 different meal choices for dinner, great, take your happy butt into town and eat wherever you like.. if you want a lazy river.. well, you're probably shit out of luck.. you might need to go to a US university..

they don't pack their campuses with things unrelated to education and learning.. so they don't have the associated costs..

the brit system isn't perfect.. there are things that suck about it (IMO).. if you think our campuses have gone insanely left and offer (and fund) outrageous study programs that are valueless.. the brits are 100 fold worse..

but if a student wants to pursue engineering, business, biology, etc.. those programs are readily available, from NUMEROUS brick and mortar, well regarded schools (to include Oxford and Cambridge now) as online courses of study, at a fraction of the cost of what it takes to attend the same program from an equivalent quality US school...

Point taken, but its actually worse than you suggest. If you're going for an MBA or executive MBA today, you want the ROI that comes with the 18 to 24 month commitment and the total cost of attendance.

Tier-1 MBAs (top-25) you're looking at $160k in up all-in. Eighteen years ago that same MBA was $78,000. The ROI has not doubled in the intervening years.

I knew someone in the States that was a total screw-off and got a pathetic 450ish on his GMAT. A score so low I think the only institution he qualified to attend was University of Akron (they simply required a score, any score). He applied to London School of Economics that will not accept any US test scores in their application and he got in! He spent $30k all-in as an American. Obviously, he didn't do much with the degree because he wasn't qualified, but he did attend and he did get a steal on his education.
 
Read that this was a big issue ...so he sorted it.... :E Shrug: :E Rofl:

as silly as it sounds... it actually pisses off a lot of Americans..

our "water regulations" not only control how much water pressure we can have in a shower.. they control how much water a toilet can use.. which ultimately leads to people flushing (and plunging) a whole lot more than they would have otherwise when they cant get a particularly angry turd to go down hole and into the sewer system...

we actually had a pretty prominent politician (Trey Gowdy) go onto the senate floor to argue with the EPA about regulations that had his house backing up with shit at one time lol..

Trump signing that order will make greenies livid... but at the same time is a "feel good" thing that everyone other than the greenies in the US will appreciate..
 
Point taken, but its actually worse than you suggest. If you're going for an MBA or executive MBA today, you want the ROI that comes with the 18 to 24 month commitment and the total cost of attendance.

Tier-1 MBAs (top-25) you're looking at $160k in up all-in. Eighteen years ago that same MBA was $78,000. The ROI has not doubled in the intervening years.

I knew someone in the States that was a total screw-off and got a pathetic 450ish on his GMAT. A score so low I think the only institution he qualified to attend was University of Akron (they simply required a score, any score). He applied to London School of Economics that will not accept any US test scores in their application and he got in! He spent $30k all-in as an American. Obviously, he didn't do much with the degree because he wasn't qualified, but he did attend and he did get a steal on his education.

Yep.


LSE is considered to be one of the top 10 business schools on earth.. by comparison, the Univ of Akron is the 377th place business school in the US..

But LSE is less than 1/2 the price..

The US higher education system is a complete disaster when you consider it exclusively from an ROI perspective..

This equation is precisely why I pursued my MBA at Anglia Ruskin University in the UK... ARU is largely unknown in the US.. but is a reasonably well regarded school in the UK.. Founded in the 1800's, accredited, etc etc..

At the time I was shopping for a school the University of TN (similar quality MBA program) was $44K to attend their EMBA.. ARU cost me $9200 from start to finish.. For me it was a no brainer.. I wasn't going to go to a tier 1 or tier 2 school... I simply needed an MBA from somewhere for career progression...

And who wouldn't want to be an alumni from the same university as David Gilmour and Syd Barret from Pink Floyd? :)
 
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Yep.


LSE is considered to be one of the top 10 business schools on earth.. by comparison with the Univ of Akron is the 377th place business school in the US..

But LSE is less than 1/2 the price..

The US higher education system is a complete disaster when you consider it exclusively from an ROI perspective..

I just checked my alma matter out of curiosity. $196,000 all-in for the MBA I paid $78,500 for 20 years ago. It was a life changing experience for me, but I would never recommend anyone pay $200,000 ($450,000+ if taking out loans and paying them out over 15-20 years). There is no way someone can recover from the debt, interest, and the opportunity cost.

The median graduating salaries appear to be around $150,000-$175,000 a year. It would take someone 20 years of working to eclipse an 18 year old kid that did a paid apprenticeship in a skilled trade that is bringing in $120k a year as an electrician, plumber, etc.
 
I dont disagree.. but there are creative solutions out there if people are willing to look for them...

For example, the avg cost to pursue an MBA from a typical state school in the US is about $60K right now (tuition, books etc.. that figure does not include housing, meal plans, parking, etc..etc..).. .

you can pursue an MBA from an accredited, brick and mortar, well regarded school in the UK however for about $15K (complete the degree online).. Some are as low as $13K..

The problem with student loan debt is a combination of students for the last several years chasing degrees that bring no tangible value in the job market and the "American" education system selling the insane idea that students need the "complete" education experience which includes a lazy river, world class gym, a food court with 15 different commercial options for lunch, etc..etc..

I think the brits actually have the right idea.. you go to school to learn shit.. if you want to join a gym, awesome, go into town and join a gym.. if you want 35 different meal choices for dinner, great, take your happy butt into town and eat wherever you like.. if you want a lazy river.. well, you're probably shit out of luck.. you might need to go to a US university..

they don't pack their campuses with things unrelated to education and learning.. so they don't have the associated costs..

the brit system isn't perfect.. there are things that suck about it (IMO).. if you think our campuses have gone insanely left and offer (and fund) outrageous study programs that are valueless.. the brits are 100 fold worse..

but if a student wants to pursue engineering, business, biology, etc.. those programs are readily available, from NUMEROUS brick and mortar, well regarded schools (to include Oxford and Cambridge now) as online courses of study, at a fraction of the cost of what it takes to attend the same program from an equivalent quality US school...
You are 100% correct, however I guarantee you that 99.999% of high school guidance councilors will never recommend anything of the sort because it goes against the education slave trade agenda with which they are engrained; even college advisors wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole.

Then you have to understand that many parents(including mine) are COMPLETELY ignorant of the modern condition of education and they still believe it's 1970 and any degree is an advantage and it doesn't matter where you get a degree from.

You also touch on the bloated charges stacked into education just like banking fees that I was paying even 15years ago......
Computer lab fee - I have my own computer
Rec center fee - Only time I used it was to sleep on a couch between classes
Endless prerequisites that have no purpose what so ever but to add hours upon hours to a degree plan to milk students dry.

Then there is the issue with "community colleges" these are largely nothing but a waste of time, my sister attending one for 2 years(both semesters & summer) and was told that "Everything transfers, it's the same as being at the big universities"...

When she transferred to UNT only 10 hours actually transferred towards her elementary education degree.

Yes, and no. In the past any degree would open doors for you. Now, outside of STEM degrees most will qualify you to sell shoes at Nordstrum. So, unless one is going to get an MBA or a JD degree it is not worth getting into debt for a liberal or fine arts degree.

My SIL knew he needed good grades and a solid LSAT score in order to get into law school. So, he chose a major at Yale that would give him good grades, psychology. By itself it is worthless, but he had perfect scores and aced his LSAT to get him into Harvard Law School (where he met my daughter). Paid off his loans after a year of working.
Agreed and your SIL had a very smart approach, but I'd be willing to bet that he comes from educated and successful parents that gave him guidance on how to maneuver in the educational system.

The disconnect between you're and Mdwests statements is that the examples you give are for people who have good guidance at home, when the reality is that the majority of youth are being told what's the most financially convenient for the parents or more often than not NO GUIDANCE AT ALL.

The old saying of....

"Wealthy people teach their children to thrive and poor people teach their children to survive."

The problem is that the education slave trade is selling the youth of America a false bill of goods and has been for at least the last 20 years; student loans are the new subprime mortgage crisis and this in my opinion is due to colleges being allowed to grow into bloated centers full of "administrative staff" that often outnumber educators which leads to bloated tuition to pay the additional staff that aren't educating anyone.....

Cost of attending Colombia university......
1955 = $1,500 per year
2024 = $104,000 per year
$1,500 adjusted for inflation from 1955-2024 = $17,500

And it's not just colleges, this graph shows the increase in admin staff for the San Antonio ISD.
San Antonio ISD March 2025.png



My point being to all of this is.....

Just because you don't come from wealthy and or educated parents doesn't mean you deserve to be fed feet first into a financial woodchipper; however if given the proper guidance and a fare chance to make meaningful economic gains Gen Z and younger will make us proud if only given the same opportunities that were available in 1970.
 
You are 100% correct, however I guarantee you that 99.999% of high school guidance councilors will never recommend anything of the sort because it goes against the education slave trade agenda with which they are engrained; even college advisors wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole.

Then you have to understand that many parents(including mine) are COMPLETELY ignorant of the modern condition of education and they still believe it's 1970 and any degree is an advantage and it doesn't matter where you get a degree from.

You also touch on the bloated charges stacked into education just like banking fees that I was paying even 15years ago......
Computer lab fee - I have my own computer
Rec center fee - Only time I used it was to sleep on a couch between classes
Endless prerequisites that have no purpose what so ever but to add hours upon hours to a degree plan to milk students dry.

Then there is the issue with "community colleges" these are largely nothing but a waste of time, my sister attending one for 2 years(both semesters & summer) and was told that "Everything transfers, it's the same as being at the big universities"...

When she transferred to UNT only 10 hours actually transferred towards her elementary education degree.

Completely concur... Ive got 3x kids at school right now.. one in Florida, one in Louisiana, and one in Arkansas.. and then a 4th kid that finished his undergrad program about 4 years ago..

Our experience both with HS guidance counselors and with university advisors has been they are either indoctrinated.. or they are genuinely worthless (don't care about anything at all)..

That said, Im actually really surprised that the higher ed system in the US is so rapidly returning to what has proven to be a failing model...

A very good friend of mine (who also sits on my firms advisory board) is a senior administrator at a very large public university in Ohio.. he is a Yale PhD, taught at the Naval Academy for a while before moving to Ohio and putting down roots at his current university..

When COVID hit it exposed several major problems with our universities in the US are structured as a business...

With all of the amenities they "pitch" to would be students like computer labs, lazy rivers, monsterous rec centers, etc.. there are deep sunk costs.. they need students ON CAMPUS to have any chance of recouping those costs..

Many universities make a huge sum of money off of student housing and student parking.. their models center around tuitions paying for faculty, and all the other stuff like football games, parking, housing, etc paying for the lazy rivers, rec centers, computer labs, food courts, etc..etc..

For 2 years many universities lost a ton of money.. students weren't on campus, so student housing wasn't getting paid for, computer lab fees weren't getting paid, parking fees weren't getting paid, etc.. but all of those facilities are sunk costs and the universities had to continue pay for them (despite losing the associated revenue and profits)..

The other problem they had was brick and mortar school had been telling the lie that online learning wasn't as effective as in class learning, and that to get a "full" university experience you needed to live in student housing, have access to a lazy river, be involved in the greek system, be able to hang out in the rec center, etc..etc.. that your life MUST center around the university or you really weren't getting the same quality of education and experience.. and now they had to tell a very different story.. .

Now they had to tell both incoming freshman and returning students that they SHOULD NOT postpone or pause their educations because online learning was just as effective, that lazy rivers as a bonus, but the real thing to focus on was attending class, that Universities are all about preparing you for your career field and campus life is something "ancillary"..

And many young people called them out on their lie(s).. Which pushed student enrollments down as much as 25% at some schools, and down about 15% on average across the country...

Granted enrollments were up 5% in 2024.. the first increase nationally in several years..

But you'd think schools would have learned from the COVID experience and once they started convincing students to come back to campus would have found a better and more efficient model that is long term sustainable..

but by 2022, they were all largely reversing course again, and had pivoted back to the original lies... you MUST live on campus.. you MUST attend a school with a huge food court.. you MUST attend a school with a massive rec center.. etc..etc.. or you're not really getting a university education... that online thing is second rate.. (even though almost every brick and mortar university in the US now offers numerous online degrees and Im not aware of any degree program where at least some of the curriculum is available online.. even Harvard has significant pieces of its MBA and law school presented online for on campus students at this point)..
 
I paid $3200 for a Bachelor (regulated tuition), just right under 10k for a Master and about 45K for a law degree. Today, Bachelor $42,400, Master $26,400, Law $97,902. I always considered my law school a "working man's" school, although now they are #22 in the USA.
 
Completely concur... Ive got 3x kids at school right now.. one in Florida, one in Louisiana, and one in Arkansas.. and then a 4th kid that finished his undergrad program about 4 years ago..

Our experience both with HS guidance counselors and with university advisors has been they are either indoctrinated.. or they are genuinely worthless (don't care about anything at all)..

That said, Im actually really surprised that the higher ed system in the US is so rapidly returning to what has proven to be a failing model...

A very good friend of mine (who also sits on my firms advisory board) is a senior administrator at a very large public university in Ohio.. he is a Yale PhD, taught at the Naval Academy for a while before moving to Ohio and putting down roots at his current university..

When COVID hit it exposed several major problems with our universities in the US are structured as a business...

With all of the amenities they "pitch" to would be students like computer labs, lazy rivers, monsterous rec centers, etc.. there are deep sunk costs.. they need students ON CAMPUS to have any chance of recouping those costs..

Many universities make a huge sum of money off of student housing and student parking.. their models center around tuitions paying for faculty, and all the other stuff like football games, parking, housing, etc paying for the lazy rivers, rec centers, computer labs, food courts, etc..etc..

For 2 years many universities lost a ton of money.. students weren't on campus, so student housing wasn't getting paid for, computer lab fees weren't getting paid, parking fees weren't getting paid, etc.. but all of those facilities are sunk costs and the universities had to continue pay for them (despite losing the associated revenue and profits)..

The other problem they had was brick and mortar school had been telling the lie that online learning wasn't as effective as in class learning, and that to get a "full" university experience you needed to live in student housing, have access to a lazy river, be involved in the greek system, be able to hang out in the rec center, etc..etc.. that your life MUST center around the university or you really weren't getting the same quality of education and experience.. and now they had to tell a very different story.. .

Now they had to tell both incoming freshman and returning students that they SHOULD NOT postpone or pause their educations because online learning was just as effective, that lazy rivers as a bonus, but the real thing to focus on was attending class, that Universities are all about preparing you for your career field and campus life is something "ancillary"..

And many young people called them out on their lie(s).. Which pushed student enrollments down as much as 25% at some schools, and down about 15% on average across the country...

Granted enrollments were up 5% in 2024.. the first increase nationally in several years..

But you'd think schools would have learned from the COVID experience and once they started convincing students to come back to campus would have found a better and more efficient model that is long term sustainable..

but by 2022, they were all largely reversing course again, and had pivoted back to the original lies... you MUST live on campus.. you MUST attend a school with a huge food court.. you MUST attend a school with a massive rec center.. etc..etc.. or you're not really getting a university education... that online thing is second rate.. (even though almost every brick and mortar university in the US now offers numerous online degrees and Im not aware of any degree program where at least some of the curriculum is available online.. even Harvard has significant pieces of its MBA and law school presented online for on campus students at this point)..

Just an anecdote that is somewhat relevant. My daughter wanted to visit universities starting last summer (a pre-planning HS freshman). My wife is an Ivy graduate and was really excited to show the whole family her alma matter. I was especially enthusiastic because it was my "dream school" when I was a kid. On the same trip, we toured my alma matter that was a fairly well regarded midwestern private school. The latter is about 1/3rd less expensive that only reviews (and guarantees!) need-based aid AFTER they are granted admission. Put plainly, anyone that gets into my alma matter can afford my alma matter, the school finds a way, guaranteed, and financial need is not considered in the admissions process. (E.g. If they have to fund 99.99% of your tuition, the college will do so and they approve/reject your admission blindly without knowing your means)

The look on my wife and children's faces as we walked that Ivy league institution was a combination of disgust and disappointment. All the Fraternities were shut down with crime scene tape on the doors due to woke allegations of things that happened at totally different universities. The buildings were worn out, the grounds were dirty, the landscaping was non-existent, the dorms were tired, the bookstore was the same quality as a community college. The pro-palestinian protests had turned the campus into a ghost town where nobody really wanted to be out and about. It was basically a shell of its former self.

On the other hand, my old stomping grounds were immaculate. The new buildings and services were astounding. Happy people of a variety of faiths were attending prayer services, happy alumni were walking all over the place joyfully saying hello to all passers by.

The former university has the better rankings (marginally) and is significantly higher cost. Where the hell that money goes I have no idea because the place was a shithole? The latter university has certainly raised their tuitions as well, but they also found a way to make sure anyone that attends can afford to go there without extensive debt at the undergraduate level.

Woke ideas and stupid humanities departments have turned the most storied institutions in this country into cesspools with no possible ROI for a student. My wife spent the subsequent hours in the car trying to convince all of us her university didn't used to be the way it now is. Sad realities.

My daughter's conclusion is she's focusing on private Christian universities like Notre Dame that will provide options to fund the education, the military academies, and a full-ride to the in-State Flagship school. Nothing else makes sense to her and I tend to agree.
 
I dont disagree.. but there are creative solutions out there if people are willing to look for them...

For example, the avg cost to pursue an MBA from a typical state school in the US is about $60K right now (tuition, books etc.. that figure does not include housing, meal plans, parking, etc..etc..).. .

you can pursue an MBA from an accredited, brick and mortar, well regarded school in the UK however for about $15K (complete the degree online).. Some are as low as $13K..

The problem with student loan debt is a combination of students for the last several years chasing degrees that bring no tangible value in the job market and the "American" education system selling the insane idea that students need the "complete" education experience which includes a lazy river, world class gym, a food court with 15 different commercial options for lunch, etc..etc..

I think the brits actually have the right idea.. you go to school to learn shit.. if you want to join a gym, awesome, go into town and join a gym.. if you want 35 different meal choices for dinner, great, take your happy butt into town and eat wherever you like.. if you want a lazy river.. well, you're probably shit out of luck.. you might need to go to a US university..

they don't pack their campuses with things unrelated to education and learning.. so they don't have the associated costs..

the brit system isn't perfect.. there are things that suck about it (IMO).. if you think our campuses have gone insanely left and offer (and fund) outrageous study programs that are valueless.. the brits are 100 fold worse..

but if a student wants to pursue engineering, business, biology, etc.. those programs are readily available, from NUMEROUS brick and mortar, well regarded schools (to include Oxford and Cambridge now) as online courses of study, at a fraction of the cost of what it takes to attend the same program from an equivalent quality US school...
The other thing that the UK and Continental Europe have is a very effective trade school system. A tiny percentage of European students go on to universities compared to the US. Where here someone is racking up $150K in debt for a useless degree in general studies, his or her European counterpart is learning a useful and lucrative trade.

The odd thing to me is the resistance millennials have in embracing such technical and profitable careers for which there is huge demand in this country. Many would seem to be happier complaining about no jobs and greedy Boomers.
 
The other thing that the UK and Continental Europe have is a very effective trade school system. A tiny percentage of European students go on to universities compared to the US. Where here someone is racking up $150K in debt for a useless degree in general studies, his or her European counterpart is learning a useful and lucrative trade.

The odd thing to me is the resistance millennials have in embracing such technical and profitable careers for which there is huge demand in this country. Many would seem to be happier complaining about no jobs and greedy Boomers.

@Red Leg on a broad-brush basis, Boomers and Gen-Xer parents and their guidance counselor proxies sold a big lie to the younger generations. The lie is anchored by a few pillars:

1.) Losers work with their hands, it's beneath you
2.) You should follow your dreams
3.) Use debt to invest in your future
4.) You deserve your desires
5.) Education is a sufficient condition for success

Overpriced education isn't the problem, it's the symptom. If we nationalized higher education and made it 100% free for everyone tomorrow, we'd still be in the same national crisis.
 
College is way overrated, not the mention the cost aspect. Their is a time and place for college in the work force but that is far and few between. For most people a trade school or the military is a better option. Most people do need a structured environment and will not succeed on their own. Most are followers not leaders.

My HS counselors laughed at me and said that I would never make anything in life for choosing to not go to college. I graduated HS and went to work for my Dad and myself and never looked back. In reality I had been working for my Dad and Grandfather since I could walk, and yes I stated from the ground up. Sweeping floor, painted and so on. A few years ago one of same school counselors invited me back to school for Career Day, needless to say I will not be invited back after my speech about success without college. What can I say.

I have been very blessed in life and semi retired at 38, more or less pick and choose the jobs I want to do.

*****

A kid I graduated with could not make up his mind what he wanted to major in and went to school for about 12 years. He now is a pharmacist and makes 90k a year and has almost 600k in college loans. The last time we spoke, he said that it has been tough. I said no kidding and good luck.

*****

Another kid I graduated with was offered this from his Dad. 10k to go to college or pay in full for a trade school or 50k not to go to college and invest in something worth while. He chose to have his Dad buy a used dump truck, a used trailer and a wore out backhoe. Total was 43K his Dad keep the remaining 7K and his son now has a very successful excavation business.

*****

By the way a lot of this can be applied to weddings and funerals. Again most are way overrated and a wast of money.
 
When I was in high-school back in the late 70s there were two tracks - one was college the other was trades. My junior senior year I signed up to go in the Navy so my final year in high-school I took many gedunk courses that were for the trades kids. I aced those courses in high-school.. looking back I don't think the school pushed the trades people hard enough
Just my experience.
 
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Think about how much lower the job market expectations are for kids in college today, how much higher student loan debt is, how much less the dollar buys.

I’m not saying this to be antagonistic, your sentiments are common amongst people your age who simply cannot comprehend how much this country has changed for young people; college graduates today have a MUCH steeper hill to climb.

Hence why they are almost universally engaged in politics, because their suffering the consequences of political decisions that were made long before they were born.
Agreed. A young college student will be approved for a 100k plus student loan, saddled in student debt after graduation and spend a good portion of their lives paying that debt off. Of course if the same student sought a 100k business loan the bank would laugh. It’s almost criminal, really. When I graduated from high school, junior college tuition was free except for books and state universities were very reasonable. Highly recommend the trade schools nowadays.
 
The other thing that the UK and Continental Europe have is a very effective trade school system. A tiny percentage of European students go on to universities compared to the US. Where here someone is racking up $150K in debt for a useless degree in general studies, his or her European counterpart is learning a useful and lucrative trade.

The odd thing to me is the resistance millennials have in embracing such technical and profitable careers for which there is huge demand in this country. Many would seem to be happier complaining about no jobs and greedy Boomers.
I don't see young people shying away from the trades at all, the enrollments for trade schools is through the roof especially in welding, mechanics, aviation maintenance and plumbing.

My department head has been a University employee since graduation 25 years ago and I recently asked his son what his degree was going to be......

"HVAC, I'm going into HVAC, I don't have time to sit in a classroom and listen to people who couldn't feed themselves if not for teaching!"

I've never been more proud of someone I'm not related to!



 
I don't see young people shying away from the trades at all, the enrollments for trade schools is through the roof especially in welding, mechanics, aviation maintenance and plumbing.

My department head has been a University employee since graduation 25 years ago and I recently asked his son what his degree was going to be......

"HVAC, I'm going into HVAC, I don't have time to sit in a classroom and listen to people who couldn't feed themselves if not for teaching!"

I've never been more proud of someone I'm not related to!



Agree. I went to a Vo-Tec school program for a portion of my last 2 years in HS (I hated sitting in the classroom and my grade we not the greatest.). After HS I sat on the Vo-Tec board for several years and the program had a 90% job placement and retention success rate.

90% of the guys we hire are either for an existing trade or right out of a trade school.
 
Agreed and your SIL had a very smart approach, but I'd be willing to bet that he comes from educated and successful parents that gave him guidance on how to maneuver in the educational system.

The disconnect between you're and Mdwests statements is that the examples you give are for people who have good guidance at home, when the reality is that the majority of youth are being told what's the most financially convenient for the parents or more often than not NO GUIDANCE AT ALL.

The old saying of....

"Wealthy people teach their children to thrive and poor people teach their children to survive."


Just because you don't come from wealthy and or educated parents doesn't mean you deserve to be fed feet first into a financial woodchipper; however if given the proper guidance and a fare chance to make meaningful economic gains Gen Z and younger will make us proud if only given the same opportunities that were available in 1970.

God bless the United States Marine Corps, at least for me and young farm boys and girls like I was. God please also bless the other U.S. military services for the guidance and occasional size 10 boot rammed up assess when appropriate! I’ve heard VP J.D. Vance thank his Gunnery Sergeant (paygrade E-7) for direction. Prior to his Gunny, J.D. Vance had his grandmother for stern guidance.

My parents raised me to be good and work hard, very hard. Coming from a strict home and quick tempered father on the farm, Marine Corps boot camp was easy for me! I did well in my Marine Corps career based on hard work and figuring out how to do the impossible with next to nothing. Sounds like farming, doesn’t it?

In two decades as a Marine and almost three has a technology consultant, those I most admire to a person had very mentoring parents. It was hard for me to conceive that their families would discuss politics, the economy, and how to make money around the dinner table.

In retrospect, I had the same opportunities as all others. I just lacked the foundation to understand what to do with the opportunities. Presently I have young adult stepchildren that I mentor nearly every day, rather they like it or not. I strive to implant in them the foundation to achieve much in life.

The U.S. military is a social melting pot and social elevator all at once. The great thing is there is something for every young person in the services. That is for those that qualify. Enlisting now requires nearly perfect medical records, no criminal records, and so on. Gosh knows I enlisted with five knitting needle size stainless steel pins in my hip and nearly got arrested two days prior to entering boot camp! I would have been arrested if the WWII vet I offended hadn’t figured that the Corps would remove any mental deficiencies from my brain housing group. Advance 50 years to today and police do not have the discretion to let youthful defenders go with a stern lecture or to allow their parents to punish the stupid kid.

For many young people and a lot of older ones who need a fresh start in life, the country needs something between military service and college. Something like the Civilian Conservation Corps of the 1930’s. A program where if young people would follow the rules they would learn a trade but with a payback to America. I think the AmeriCorps program did or does this for teachers. We need to create more learning opportunities for people to better themselves. Programs such as those would be a better use of my tax dollars than a lot of other questionable Government programs.
 
Mark, for hiring practices. If I was forced to pick from one demographic. On average, I would hire a farm kid all day long.

Of course there are no absolutes. but they can pretty much drive anything, are used to cobbling and wrenching and of course, working hard.
 

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pajarito wrote on Altitude sickness's profile.
is the parker shotgun still available?
Waterbuck hunt from this past week!

JudyB wrote on Muting the Goat's profile.
Here's a photo of Tony receiving that Shaw & Hunter award at the 1970 annual EAPHA Dinner Dance. Tony Dyer, then EAPHA President and Princess (Sunny) von Auersperg presented it. I also attended the event.
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