Politics

[Brent in Az]

I saw Biden said the federal government was going to pay to rebuild the bridge. Why is the shipping companies insurance company not on the hook for it?

Democrats never let a tragedy go to waste.
Taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for rebuilding it.

 

[Doubleplay]

If I read all of this Ukraine/ Russia, Israel/ Palestine, Trump/ Biden news I’m very glad I live in South Africa.

I bought a new Land Cruiser (diesel spill and rain wrote the other double cab off) and tomorrow I take the day off to shoot a young reedbuck for mince. Sunday after hanging the buck, my wife and I will mix it with some bushpig and beef brisket, lubricate ourselves with a Hendric’s and lime from our tree, and vacuum pack roughly 45kg of mince for the next few months…

But will you have power to do all that with 6-8 hours of load shedding everyday???
I'm guessing you're running a generator??

 

[John Wasmuth]

I’m sure that some how, some way, The left will find a way to blame trump and the gop for boat screw up…..

 

[WAB]

It will be interesting to find out if the harbor pilot was still in command of the ship or if he had returned control to the captain.

Almost certainly had to be the harbor pilot. I wouldn’t think that they could relinquish control while still in the channel.

 

[Red Leg]

You didn't really give an answer about how you would describe their role in the country.

I'm talking specifically about Maidan, you really believe the US had zero to do with that? Nothing? I've heard you call out Trump specifically about the events around Jan 6, and I'd say fair enough.
But if one guy and a handful of his influencers can cause that much of a disruption, you honestly don't think millions of dollars being spent coupled with years of NGO efforts and intelligence operations could cause people to carry out a Jan 6 on steroids like Maidan? Especially when the people carrying it out are being actively encouraged by the West? 200k people in the street isn't always "the will of the people" it may just be 200k people in the street (some of whom are in contact with US handlers).

You also leave out the huge swaths of the country who were against the 2014 coup, because they knew it was a coup. The US drastically underestimated just how much of an issue this was going to be. US leadership believed a shakeup of the Kiev government, coupled with a blind eye to the violence perpetrated by groups like Right Sector and Azov against those "Kremlin stooges" in the East, would make the problem just sort of go away.

What I "really believe" is that the US's role in supporting Maiden was about as meaningful as Russia's attempts to support their puppet in Kiev. This was not a coup. It was a revolution. Every revolution in history has been initiated and maintained by a relatively small cadre committed to that cause. Did the US have contact with the leaders of that anti-Russian pro-Western European movement? Of course we did. We don't need leaked conversation between Nuland and the ambassador to prove it. After all we were hardly secretive about it. Senators Murphy and McCain went to Kiev and McCain actually addressed the crowd.

While I subscribe to the notion Maidan was a revolutionary movement, it was not a Coup d'etat. It was the removal by a vote of the Parliament of a President who had reneged on his electoral program for obscure reasons, had ordered the police to brutally repress what was initially a peaceful protest, and finally had fled the country. What the conspiracists conveniently overlook is that Yanukovych was removed by a large majority of the Parliament, including members of his own party, which then organized new democratic elections as soon as possible—hardly the outcome or events associated with a putsch or they?

But in this country, it is far easier to believe in the machinations of an evil and corrupt intelligence service than the expression of the will of a people wanting to be free of Russian domination.

Did Russia attempt to halt that revolution? Of course they did. But because it was an expression of the popular will of the Ukrainian people, the Russian efforts failed - not because the CIA out maneuvered them. The Kremlin then reverted to type by actively supporting an insurgency in the Donbas and seized Crimea.

Where I think we are likely in some agreement is the point this needed to be resolved was in 2014 through very tough negotiations between the US/NATO/EU/Ukraine and Russia. Perhaps a deal with teeth could have been negotiated. It likely would have been far from perfect, but I am certain it would be better than where we are right now. Putin might just agree as he stares at the NATO border almost visible from the Winter Palace. But like all of this discussion that was then, and not now.

You also leave out the huge swaths of the country who were against the 2014 coup, because they knew it was a coup.

Finally, I believe that assumption is nonsense unless the "huge swaths" are the Donbas and Crimea. And even in the Donbas the approval rating of the independence vote of 1991 was 80-85%. No, that is not a survey of attitudes at the time of Maidan, but it does indicate a "huge swath" of commitment to independence from Russia deeply held by the vast majority of the Ukrainian people. Again, I simply point to the actions of parliament 2014 and the enthusiastic participation in and results of the following election. Since 2022 they have demonstrated that commitment in a far more profound way.

 

[bowjijohn]

I’ve no idea what lies behind this accident

I do however, have some sympathy as I did something similar at Jupiter Inlet in Florida as a delivery captain

Makes a good tale around the dinner table but not so funny at the time

 

[Red Leg]

It will be interesting to find out if the harbor pilot was still in command of the ship or if he had returned control to the captain.

Almost certainly the harbor pilot still had the ship. Having lived in that part of Maryland, the most critical points in leaving that port are maneuvering from the pier and through harbor congestion, and then passing under the Key Bridge. I do not remember if the pilot stays with the vessel until it clears the Chesapeake Bay Bridge.

Pretty sure DOJ will go after the shipping company, their insurer and reinsurers for the cost.

Also pretty sure Baltimore and the companies inside the confines of the bridge will go after them for damages and loss of business.

Exactly. The country can not wait for the claims to work there way through what will be a tangled legal web before rebuilding that bridge. Loosing the South bypass will be a huge nuisance for commuters and those transiting through Baltimore. Closure of that port is potential disaster. Clearing the channel will be the first priority.

 

[WAB]

What I "really believe" is that the US's role in supporting Maiden was about as meaningful as Russia's attempts to support their puppet in Kiev. This was not a coup. It was a revolution. Every revolution in history has been initiated and maintained by a relatively small cadre committed to that cause. Did the US have contact with the leaders of that anti-Russian pro-Western European movement? Of course we did. We don't need leaked conversation between Nuland and the ambassador to prove it. After all we were hardly secretive about it. Senators Murphy and McCain went to Kiev and McCain actually addressed the crowd.

While I subscribe to the notion Maidan was a revolutionary movement, it was not a Coup d'etat. It was the removal by a vote of the Parliament of a President who had reneged on his electoral program for obscure reasons, had ordered the police to brutally repress what was initially a peaceful protest, and finally had fled the country. What the conspiracists conveniently overlook is that Yanukovych was removed by a large majority of the Parliament, including members of his own party, which then organized new democratic elections as soon as possible—hardly the outcome or events associated with a putsch or they?

But in this country, it is far easier to believe in the machinations of an evil and corrupt intelligence service than the expression of the will of a people wanting to be free of Russian domination.

Did Russia attempt to halt that revolution? Of course they did. But because it was an expression of the popular will of the Ukrainian people, the Russian efforts failed - not because the CIA out maneuvered them. The Kremlin then reverted to type by actively supporting an insurgency in the Donbas and seized Crimea.

Where I think we are likely in some agreement is the point this needed to be resolved was in 2014 through very tough negotiations between the US/NATO/EU/Ukraine and Russia. Perhaps a deal with teeth could have been negotiated. It likely would have been far from perfect, but I am certain it would be better than where we are right now. Putin might just agree as he stares at the NATO border almost visible from the Winter Palace. But like all of this discussion that was then, and not now.

Finally, I believe that assumption is nonsense unless the "huge swaths" are the Donbas and Crimea. And even in the Donbas the approval rating of the independence vote of 1991 was 80-85%. No, that is not a survey of attitudes at the time of Maidan, but it does indicate a "huge swath" of commitment to independence from Russia deeply held by the vast majority of the Ukrainian people. Again, I simply point to the actions of parliament 2014 and the enthusiastic participation in and results of the following election. Since 2022 they have demonstrated that commitment in a far more profound way.

You are absolutely correct in that this entire debacle could have been averted in 2014. The Obama administration reneged on our promises, and stood aside to allow Russia to annex Crimea. Biden further signaled Russia with his ‘minor incursion’ comments. We have a lot of responsibility in this mess, but it’s not the dark machinations the conspiracy theorists suggest, it is pure and simple inept US leadership. I can’t even say it’s poor foreign policy, as I can’t see where the current administration even has a cohesive foreign policy.

 

[Brent in Az]

6 workers are still missing, and presumed dead.
Add expensive lawsuits to the mounting costs against that cargo company.

 

[Tanks]

Thanks to the ineptitude of a Cargo ship captain, Americans may face supply change issues, and increased costs to reroute cargo.
The price of stupidity.

Ahem, the two pilots were in charge per Maryland law.

That being said, I talked to my last brother-in-law who is a Chief Engineer and a merchant marine. He said SOP is to have backup generators online during port maneuvers. So, procedurally something went wrong with that ship or they operate differently. He works the West Coast to China etc. route.

 

[Brent in Az]

Ahem, the two pilots were in charge per Maryland law.

That being said, I talked to my last brother-in-law who is a Chief Engineer and a merchant marine. He said SOP is to have backup generators online during port maneuvers. So, procedurally something went wrong with that ship or they operate differently. He works the West Coast to China etc. route.

Ahem....regardless of who was piloting the vessel, the end result remains the same.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Ahem (just because I don't get to use that all that often, not to be snarky... )

"Thanks to the ineptitude of a Cargo ship captain..."

His point was your initial post explicitly singled out the ship captain, without proof that it was in fact the ship captain. Something this big? I think casting blame directed at a specific individual without proof of that blame is careless. I would suppose that there is a still a chance the captain was responsible. But several members with knowledge of such operations believe it's likely the fault of someone else. Yeah, the end result remains the same. Culpability, however, is unclear at best at this point and may not belong to the captain in any way whatsoever. Kinda like some of the things Trump gets blamed for? Initial appearances can be such tricky bastards, can't they?

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I heard on the news just a few minutes ago, speculation of contaminated fuel might have caused the power outage.

When I worked in Nigeria, we had a brand new drill ship coming from Korea and around South Africa. The drill ship had a total power outage and was towed into Namibia. Contaminated fuel was the issue.

 

[WAB]

Ahem....regardless of who was piloting the vessel, the end result remains the same.

I think the point he was making was the foreign captain was not in charge, the US pilots were.

 

[Brent in Az]

Ahem (just because I don't get to use that all that often, not to be snarky... )

"Thanks to the ineptitude of a Cargo ship captain..."

His point was your initial post explicitly singled out the ship captain, without proof that it was in fact the ship captain. Something this big? I think casting blame directed at a specific individual without proof of that blame is careless. I would suppose that there is a still a chance the captain was responsible. But several members with knowledge of such operations believe it's likely the fault of someone else. Yeah, the end result remains the same. Culpability, however, is unclear at best at this point and may not belong to the captain in any way whatsoever. Kinda like some of the things Trump gets blamed for? Initial appearances can be such tricky bastards, can't they?

You know what,? It's always the same little clan of twits that like to henpeck my comments over senseless bullshit, and micromanage the shit out of a comment.
It's gotten old, so do me a favor and just STFU, and move on.
I used the term "CAPTAIN" in a generic sense of the word for who is in charge of piloting the vessel.
The "CAPTAIN" is in charge of that vessel, and everyone under him.
The "CAPTAIN" will ultimately be held responsible.

 

[Hunt anything]

Question about these big cargo ships, if they do have contaminated fuel, will that cause the power to be cut to all of the lights? I’ve run out of fuel, clogged fuel lines and water in fuel and the electrical systems always stayed on. Of course it wasn’t a huge cargo ship but just curious.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

As others have mentioned, clearing the bridge debris and reopening the post is the first priority. It wouldn't surprise me if one of the offshore oil industry heavy lift vessels comes in and picks up a couple of the larger sections and loads them onto a barge.

The Versa Bar VB-10000 might be an option.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

You know what,? It's always the same little clan of twits that like to henpeck my comments over senseless bullshit, and micromanage the shit out of a comment.
It's gotten old, so do me a favor and just STFU, and move on.
I used the term "CAPTAIN" in a generic sense of the word for who is in charge of piloting the vessel.
The "CAPTAIN" is in charge of that vessel, and everyone under him.
The "CAPTAIN" will ultimately be held responsible.

Thank you CAPTAIN Brent.

 

[Louis Toadvine]

You know what,? It's always the same little clan of twits that like to henpeck my comments over senseless bullshit, and micromanage the shit out of a comment.
It's gotten old, so do me a favor and just STFU, and move on.
I used the term "CAPTAIN" in a generic sense of the word for who is in charge of piloting the vessel.
The "CAPTAIN" is in charge of that vessel, and everyone under him.
The "CAPTAIN" will ultimately be held responsible.

The "clan of twits" doing their "henpecking" are certainly not doing it over "senseless bullshit" or some desire to "micromanage the shit out of a comment". They are asking you to be accurate with your language so that you don't accuse the wrong person of committing something that resulted in a grievous loss of life and material. That's not too much to ask.

You are responsible for the comments and accusations you make. I reckon you understand this, as you once accused me of libel when I quoted comments you made.

 

[spike.t]