Dangerous Game Double Rifle

[PTP]

I’ve been a member here for a while, but have not posted for a long time. I’m planning on a plain’s game and buffalo hunt. I have plenty of plains game rifles and want to buy a DG double rifle thinking about a 416 Rigby or a 450 NE I’m sure there are some threads out there if anyone could direct me, or give me some advice, appreciate it!

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

want to buy a DG double rifle thinking about a 416 Rigby or a 450 NE

Yes, there are a lot of threads on double rifles on this AH sub-forum:

Double rifles

www.africahunting.com

Like you, I would like a double in 416 Rigby to make feeding it easy. Instead, I settled on the rimmed cartridge 500/416. It can safely propel a 400 grain bullet to 2400 fps at the cartridge's maximum pressure of 3100 BAR or 44,962 psi.

 

[Rare Breed]

I’ve been a member here for a while, but have not posted for a long time. I’m planning on a plain’s game and buffalo hunt. I have plenty of plains game rifles and want to buy a DG double rifle thinking about a 416 Rigby or a 450 NE I’m sure there are some threads out there if anyone could direct me, or give me some advice, appreciate it!

I would not get either one. 416 better in bolt action and 450 hard to even find reload items. In my opinion neither will hold their value. I have owned 5 DRs. I recommend a 470 or 500 NE for your DR. Just google both and you will find. Do not limit yourself just to the US. 2 of the 5 were international finds

 

[jlb1036]

go with the 470 NE easy on ammo supply and hits really hard on all DG .

 

[Hunter-Habib]

If you want a good double rifle that can easily do double duty for both dangerous game and plains game, then I strongly recommend a .500/416 Nitro Express. A Heym Model 89B with 26” barrels and a non-automatic safety.

My good friend, @Pondoro would much prefer the .450/400 Nitro Express which is also an excellent double duty caliber as well.

I would try to stay away from rimless cartridges (like the .416 Rigby) in a double rifle. In hot African places (like the Kalahari or Zambezi Valley or Rift Valley), these high pressure rimless cartridges tend to frequently get jammed in the breech (caused by the tiny metal pawls overriding the cartridge heads). It actually happened to me once.

When I hunted this Cape buffalo with a Belgian boxlock ejector double rifle (chambered in the rimless .458 Winchester Magnum) in 1978, the extractors failed to remove the expended cartridge cases when I tried to reload after my first 2 shots. Scary experience. Fortunately, the first 2 shots were enough for the brute and he eventually folded without thinking of charging me or my white hunter.

That said, a lot of it depends upon the quality of the individual rifle. I was using a no name Belgium made guild gun. Fellow forum member @Mark A Ouellette owns and extensively uses a Heym Model 88B in .458 Winchester Magnum. And he is fortunately yet to experience a problem.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Another vote for the 450/400.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

That said, a lot of it depends upon the quality of the individual rifle. I was using a no name Belgium made guild gun. Fellow forum member @Mark A Ouellette owns and extensively uses a Heym Model 88B in .458 Winchester Magnum. And he is fortunately yet to experience a problem.

In the vintage shotgun collector world ABC means Another Belgium Clunker.
That is derogatory and not fair since their were a lot a Belgium guns produced across the entire range of quality from low to superb!

Rimless double rifles use spring loaded pawls (fingers) in their extractors. They are a possible failure mechanism. Other than @Hunter-Habib whose word is without doubt, I've never heard of any failures. That doesn't mean that pawls extractors have not failed. We also never read much about the under gunned elephant hunters who never returned from the veld.

The Heym 88 and I presume 89's have dual independent pawls in each extractor. Another example of why Heym has such a stellar reputation!

I have owned Merkels and a Chaupis that had a single pawl in each extractor. They all worked as designed.

All that being stated, if performance is the same between a rimless and a rimmed chambering, for a double select the rimmed version. Rimmed cartridges are designed to function at lower pressures than their rimless counterparts.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

The 450/400 does it all.

 

[rookhawk]

I’ve been a member here for a while, but have not posted for a long time. I’m planning on a plain’s game and buffalo hunt. I have plenty of plains game rifles and want to buy a DG double rifle thinking about a 416 Rigby or a 450 NE I’m sure there are some threads out there if anyone could direct me, or give me some advice, appreciate it!

Welcome.

Be advised, your post is a common one, similar to dozens of others. Only neophytes buy dangerous game rifles in rimless cartridges. Same for single triggers. You cannot give away 416 rigby, 458 Win mag, and similar rimless magnum double rifles. If the cartridge gets stuck, you cannot get them out. If the ejectors break, they cannot extract.

There is a dangerous game RIMMED double rifle cartridge of every conceivable type. Buy a rimmed caliber.

375HH -> 375 Flanged
416 Rigby -> 500/416
404 Jeffery -> 450/400
470 Capstick -> 470 Nitro
458 Winmag -> 450NE

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Welcome.

Be advised, your post is a common one, similar to dozens of others. Only neophytes buy dangerous game rifles in rimless cartridges. Same for single triggers. You cannot give away 416 rigby, 458 Win mag, and similar rimless magnum double rifles. If the cartridge gets stuck, you cannot get them out. If the ejectors break, they cannot extract.

There is a dangerous game RIMMED double rifle cartridge of every conceivable type. Buy a rimmed caliber.

375HH -> 375 Flanged
416 Rigby -> 500/416
404 Jeffery -> 450/400
470 Capstick -> 470 Nitro
458 Winmag -> 450NE

Don’t forget the 416 Rigby No2, being the rimmed version of the 416.

 

[PTP]

Welcome.

Be advised, your post is a common one, similar to dozens of others. Only neophytes buy dangerous game rifles in rimless cartridges. Same for single triggers. You cannot give away 416 rigby, 458 Win mag, and similar rimless magnum double rifles. If the cartridge gets stuck, you cannot get them out. If the ejectors break, they cannot extract.

There is a dangerous game RIMMED double rifle cartridge of every conceivable type. Buy a rimmed caliber.

375HH -> 375 Flanged
416 Rigby -> 500/416
404 Jeffery -> 450/400
470 Capstick -> 470 Nitro
458 Winmag -> 450NE

Really appreciate the information. That will make a difference now as I look. Thanks!

 

[sureshot375]

It’s not the coolest answer, but honestly take a bolt .375 for your first safari. Double rifles are a handicap, not an advantage when it comes to putting the first shot on target. A double is much harder to shoot accurately than a scoped .375.

I say go enjoy your safari and not add the complication of a double. This is coming from someone who loves to hunt with a double.

If you insist on a double, I think .500/.416 is a perfect client caliber double. It’s great for buffalo and has ideal penetration if you ever decide to go for elephant. If you look you can probably find a decent deal on a used Krieghoff. Anything bigger is a novelty for a client.

 

[ingwe500nitroexpress]

Welcome.

Be advised, your post is a common one, similar to dozens of others. Only neophytes buy dangerous game rifles in rimless cartridges. Same for single triggers. You cannot give away 416 rigby, 458 Win mag, and similar rimless magnum double rifles. If the cartridge gets stuck, you cannot get them out. If the ejectors break, they cannot extract.

There is a dangerous game RIMMED double rifle cartridge of every conceivable type. Buy a rimmed caliber.

375HH -> 375 Flanged
416 Rigby -> 500/416
404 Jeffery -> 450/400
470 Capstick -> 470 Nitro
458 Winmag -> 450NE

Bingo. Well said.

 

[KJE81]

It’s not the coolest answer, but honestly take a bolt .375 for your first safari. Double rifles are a handicap, not an advantage when it comes to putting the first shot on target. A double is much harder to shoot accurately than a scoped .375.

I say go enjoy your safari and not add the complication of a double. This is coming from someone who loves to hunt with a double.

If you insist on a double, I think .500/.416 is a perfect client caliber double. It’s great for buffalo and has ideal penetration if you ever decide to go for elephant. If you look you can probably find a decent deal on a used Krieghoff. Anything bigger is a novelty for a client.

In my opinion doubles also lose a lot of the their classical beauty and appeal when scoped or equipped with a red dot, they really look their best when equipped only with iron sights.

Of course they are much more practical when equipped with a scope or a red dot but I feel that it detracts from their lines much more then it does when a bolt action rifle is scoped.

 

[mark-hunter]

want to buy a DG double rifle thinking about a 416 Rigby or a 450 NE

I will say following:
416 rigby is bolt action caliber. (yes there are doubles in 416 rigby, but cartridge is not designed for that, because double rifle caliber, should have rimmed casing)
If you proceed with bolt action, then mauser 98 system or blaser r8. it all comes down to that.

if you dont have yet safari experience, most probably 375 HH will be the best option.
With 375 you cover all plains game, and dangeorus game.
Think carefully does one safari and one animal justifies purchase of double rifle, starting from kreighoff and heym. If money is no object, and you consider multiple safaris in the future, and want to get specialized in DG, then buy 416 and double rifle, no issue.

 

[Philip Glass]

I’ve been a member here for a while, but have not posted for a long time. I’m planning on a plain’s game and buffalo hunt. I have plenty of plains game rifles and want to buy a DG double rifle thinking about a 416 Rigby or a 450 NE I’m sure there are some threads out there if anyone could direct me, or give me some advice, appreciate it!

Best idea is to come to SCI or DSC and see all the guns. I am shooting a .450/400 and highly recommend it.

 

[Red Leg]

Unless you already have a lot of experience with double shotguns, two triggers and open sights, I would agree strongly with @sureshot375. For most, if a first buffalo, it will likely be the first animal that you will have shot at that is capable of hurting or killing someone if your first shot doesn't go into exactly the right spot. For most, using a double, for the first time on DG is not a good way to enhance first shot placement. If that bullet is off target, it will not matter how big it is.

I have noted this many times here, but my friend and PH in Mozambique summed up his feelings that the only thing that really scared him on safari was a client showing up on his first dangerous game hunt with his or her brand new double.

For most of us, the best first DG rifle for our first engagement with a buffalo is something that closely resembles our deer rifle. A scoped .375 or .416 is hard to improve upon. It is a very easy transition.

Your first and only buffalo opportunity of a safari may indeed be standing broadside in the bright sun at 35 yards in knee high grass. But he just as likely to be standing in shadows in thick jess with three of his pals at 65 yards. Your PH will ask you if you can make that shot. With a scoped .375 or .416 you can answer confidently "yes." With an open sighted double you will have to decide whether or not to launch a bullet at your only opportunity with a maybe. The consequences for someone likely other than you can be very serious.

 

[V.Veritas]

In a private conversation with Dr. Kevin Robertson he recommend me to consider a 450/400 NE as my first DG double rifle and nothing else.

He sent me a copy of an article written by him "The first double you buy, the last rifle you'll sell" or something like that. Maybe you can find it online.
It was a compelling argument for a 450/400 NE DG rifle from a PH with significant DG experience.

Needless to say, the only double rifle I own is a Heym 88 - 450/400 NE. (It was ordered with a detachable scope in claw mounts that it makes it an easy 150-200 yrs rifle).

So far I have only a 450 lb black bear to show for it. (One shot and it was DRT). I hope to improve the record this summer.

 

[mark-hunter]

Your first and only buffalo opportunity of a safari may indeed be standing broadside in the bright sun at 35 yards in knee high grass. But he just as likely to be standing in shadows in thick jess with three of his pals at 65 yards. Your PH will ask you if you can make that shot. With a scoped .375 or .416 you can answer confidently "yes." With an open sighted double you will have to decide whether or not to launch a bullet at your only opportunity with a maybe. The consequences for someone likely other than you can be very serious.

Well described.

I will just add, the time pressure factor:
If this is the situation on a first day of hunt, a hunter may decide not to shoot more easily.
On a last day of hunt this temptation will be much higher, shot will be taken more likely, and if a bullet is poorly placed, entire team will have a situation.
If animal is not recovered, a hunter will have full bill to pay, a bitter taste in a mouth during flight home, and if that animal caused injury or fatality even worse.

 

[rookhawk]

A 450-400 is a wonderful caliber (as is the rimless 404 Jeff), but the bigger question is how much are you willing to pay to get exactly what you want? A 500NE or 470NE is a much less expensive double rifle on the used market than an identical gun in 450-400NE 3”. That is a testament to just how proven those 470+500 calibers are because they are ubiquitous, increasing supply thus lowering demand.

I’d prefer to buy the very best quality double rifle I can afford rather than obsessing on the “new it” caliber that spikes the price, but I’m a frugal pragmatist.

As to what an OP should buy, the best answer and where the most money should be spent is the nicest possible 375HH. The 375HH gets used 10x more than all the other safari rifles combined for the average hunter, so might as well splurge the most money on the gun you get to enjoy most frequently. An exquisite 375HH magazine rifle also costs a fraction of an equal quality double rifle, so you better really need a double rifle to justify the outlay.

Just my opinions, I’m sure others with different pocketbooks and preferences to new vs used will disagree.