Y'all are missing the bigger picture: rhinos move to extinction

[Philip Glass]

Now due to the public outcry after the lies of the antis concerning Cecil the lion and the CBL debate RSA is ending the practice. What is being missed is that rhino ownership will now be banned as well. This is after John Hume, Trophy the film, finally went bankrupt and had to sell out to the govt/NGO. The rhino will now face certain extinction or simply be relegated to zoos.
So here is a big thank you to all you anti sympathizers. All you armchair critics of CBL operations. And all of our organizations starting with PHASA, thank you. You did the most damage to conservation in modern history. The CBL is gone and most won't lose sleep over it but the rhino is gone as well.
AS HUNTERS WE MUST HANG TOGETHER OR HANG SEPARATELY!

Lion and Rhino Breeding Ban Approved by South African Cabinet

(Bloomberg) -- South Africa’s cabinet approved a phased end to the captive breeding of lions and rhinos as the country seeks to end practices that have sullied its reputation as a custodian of some of the world’s biggest wildlife populations.Most Read from BloombergErdogan Suffers Historic Loss...

www.yahoo.com

 

[LivingTheDream]

Now due to the public outcry after the lies of the antis concerning Cecil the lion and the CBL debate RSA is ending the practice. What is being missed is that rhino ownership will now be banned as well. This is after John Hume, Trophy the film, finally went bankrupt and had to sell out to the govt/NGO. The rhino will now face certain extinction or simply be relegated to zoos.
So here is a big thank you to all you anti sympathizers. All you armchair critics of CBL operations. And all of our organizations starting with PHASA, thank you. You did the most damage to conservation in modern history. The CBL is gone and most won't lose sleep over it but the rhino is gone as well.
AS HUNTERS WE MUST HANG TOGETHER OR HANG SEPARATELY!

Lion and Rhino Breeding Ban Approved by South African Cabinet

(Bloomberg) -- South Africa’s cabinet approved a phased end to the captive breeding of lions and rhinos as the country seeks to end practices that have sullied its reputation as a custodian of some of the world’s biggest wildlife populations.Most Read from BloombergErdogan Suffers Historic Loss...

www.yahoo.com

This was my biggest concern when I read that law, I was wondering if I misinterpreted it.

This is absolutely terrible, one of the greatest conservation success stories is about to be completely wiped out.

 

[Certus]

I still reckon they shoulda done that thing where they were talking about bringing Rhinos to the NT scrub..

 

[Hunt anything]

are the farms that have breeding rhino going to have to kill them off? Hopefully they can amend this ruling but once the antis get their teeth into something they never let go. Sickening!

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

So here is a big thank you to all you anti sympathizers. All you armchair critics of CBL operations.

Easy now..

I know it’ll be hard for an aspiring influencer such as yourself but can you please refrain from mentioning Trophy The Film for a year or so?

 

[saswart]

And all of our organizations starting with PHASA, thank you. You did the most damage to conservation in modern history.

I think you mean the Custodians? PHASA was not against CBL

 

[375Fox]

John Hume went bankrupt before this intent to prohibit CBL was announced. John Hume went bankrupt because there is no legal rhino horn trade. You are spreading misinformation and you have no idea what this will or will not mean for rhinos in South Africa in game ranches in the future. You are simply jumping on the headline without information to support your statements.

 

[375Fox]

are the farms that have breeding rhino going to have to kill them off? Hopefully they can amend this ruling but once the antis get their teeth into something they never let go. Sickening!

The fact that Philip Glass would make this thread as written is low. There is not a hunting organization, conservation organization, or anti-hunting organization that would support killing rhinos in captivity. None of us know what this legislation will mean if it even moves forward. It would likely have no effect on rhinos on game ranches. It may stop the breeding of rhinos as livestock, but John Hume’s model already failed. The rhino horn trade will unfortunately never be legalized to make that a successful model. There were no reasonable bidders on his project except the private organization African Parks who plans for better or worse to reintroduce the rhinos to the wild eventually.

 

[John Wasmuth]

…..

 

[VertigoBE]

John Hume went bankrupt before this intent to prohibit CBL was announced. John Hume went bankrupt because there is no legal rhino horn trade. You are spreading misinformation and you have no idea what this will or will not mean for rhinos in South Africa in game ranches in the future. You are simply jumping on the headline without information to support your statements.

You are right, but wouldn’t this new “legislation” also prohibit any kind of future rhino horn trade?

No matter if Hume was already broke. Any breeder of rhino’s was doing it with the gamble that one day there would be free trade again in rhino horn. This law would take that hope completely away. Meaning the economic value of those rhino’s as a source of income from that specific piece of land just dropped to zero.

So Hume or not, this legislation is going to drastically drop the number of rhino (and lion) alive. I’ve seen you make the argument that CBL has no conservation value. Would you say the same about CBR?

 

[flatwater bill]

There are sponsors on this site from RSA that own rhinos. Would like to hear their thoughts on this..........thanks for posting..........FWB

 

[Ruraldoc]

Probably 90% of the world's Rhinos are on private land in South Africa. There is still a brisk profitable trade in rhino horn but it involves poachers who slip into these properties and kill rhinos to sell the on the black market.

Land owners with rhinos must bear the full cost of the anti poaching teams that patrol their property.
The only current way for the land owners to recoup expenses under the circumstances is hunting.

If the up coming legal changes stop that hunting as the only legal revenue stream, the rhino are doomed.

 

[375Fox]

You are right, but wouldn’t this new “legislation” also prohibit any kind of future rhino horn trade?

No matter if Hume was already broke. Any breeder of rhino’s was doing it with the gamble that one day there would be free trade again in rhino horn. This law would take that hope completely away. Meaning the economic value of those rhino’s as a source of income from that specific piece of land just dropped to zero.

So Hume or not, this legislation is going to drastically drop the number of rhino (and lion) alive. I’ve seen you make the argument that CBL has no conservation value. Would you say the same about CBR?

Rhinos are in danger of going extinct in the wild because of severe poaching for their horn. Lions are not. Wild lion numbers overall are not what they were, but almost all suitable areas in hunting countries that can hold lions do. Most of those same areas should hold rhino but almost none do. Many haven’t for 40 years. I’d prefer to see a legal horn trade to boost or hold rhino numbers. I unfortunately don’t think we will ever see a successful wild rhino introduction again unless a billionaire makes it his life’s goal or the demand for rhino horn ends. However, I think there is a major difference between rhinos and lions. Lions breed very fast and reach maturity relatively quickly. Rhinos breed slow and live 40 years. If you loose the base population of rhino the options would be very limited to bring the numbers back. 20,000 wild lions could multiply quickly if the land was available but it really isn’t. Also, rhinos are not raised for hunting. Hunting might offset the final cost after 30 or 40 years, but that’s all. No or almost no CBL lions are allowed to live naturally on game ranches beyond their short release period they sell to hunters, but many rhinos are on game ranches living a mostly wild existence. It’s a complicated issue. It’s not a perfect world. The real bigger picture of this should be support ethical hunting practices and stop questionable practices before they can do damage.

 

[Inline6]

Rhinos are in danger of going extinct in the wild because of severe poaching for their horn. Lions are not. Wild lion numbers overall are not what they were, but almost all suitable areas in hunting countries that can hold lions do. Most of those same areas should hold rhino but almost none do. Many haven’t for 40 years. I’d prefer to see a legal horn trade to boost or hold rhino numbers. I unfortunately don’t think we will ever see a successful wild rhino introduction again unless a billionaire makes it his life’s goal or the demand for rhino horn ends. However, I think there is a major difference between rhinos and lions. Lions breed very fast and reach maturity relatively quickly. Rhinos breed slow and live 40 years. If you loose the base population of rhino the options would be very limited to bring the numbers back. 20,000 wild lions could multiply quickly if the land was available but it really isn’t. Also, rhinos are not raised for hunting. Hunting might offset the final cost after 30 or 40 years, but that’s all. No or almost no CBL lions are allowed to live naturally on game ranches beyond their short release period they sell to hunters, but many rhinos are on game ranches living a mostly wild existence. It’s a complicated issue. It’s not a perfect world. The real bigger picture of this should be support ethical hunting practices and stop questionable practices before they can do damage.

I'm not pretending to know anything. I'll work off of logic.

Logic says, CBL goes away, CBL bone trade goes away. If their is a vacuum, someone is going to fill it. The only way that will happen is wild lion. If I'm off base feel free to correct me. Poachers have no conscience, they care nothing about what they do to numbers. Only the money they put in their pockets.

I'm not fighting for or against, I'm looking at this form a logical stand point. Take any emotion out. If you cut off a supply, someone is going to fill it by any means if the reward is worth the risk. Look at the drug trade. Look at human trafficking. Bad people have no moral compass...that's why we cannot understand how they can do the things they do.

You are correct, we have no way of predicting the future. Looking at the past, NO here is jumping up and down we will have a positive outcome (regarding future number of animals).

 

[grand veneur]

I am not interested for a long time in any of all this decisions.

There are so many parties involved that no consensus can be reached. Each party represents its opinion and interests, often passionate and militant, so that any form of discussion with one other party becomes impossible. We hunters and especially the worldwide trophy hunters are also included. We also believe that we have the right attitude and therefore the solution to the problem. I am not so sure about that.

 

[Hunt anything]

I'm not pretending to know anything. I'll work off of logic.

Logic says, CBL goes away, CBL bone trade goes away. If their is a vacuum, someone is going to fill it. The only way that will happen is wild lion. If I'm off base feel free to correct me. Poachers have no conscience, they care nothing about what they do to numbers. Only the money they put in their pockets.

I'm not fighting for or against, I'm looking at this form a logical stand point. Take any emotion out. If you cut off a supply, someone is going to fill it by any means if the reward is worth the risk. Look at the drug trade. Look at human trafficking. Bad people have no moral compass...that's why we cannot understand how they can do the things they do.

You are correct, we have no way of predicting the future. Looking at the past, NO here is jumping up and down we will have a positive outcome (regarding future number of animals).

Yep, if that happens whole prides of wild lion will be slaughtered. The only down side will be the whole lion will have to be removed so the bones can be harvested not just chopping off of the horn or tusks.

 

[Inline6]

Yep, if that happens whole prides of wild lion will be slaughtered. The only down side will be the whole lion will have to be removed so the bones can be harvested not just chopping off of the horn or tusks.

How long would it take to debone a lion? 2 or 3 guys under an hour maybe 2? Would they worry about all the bones or only the high profit? (My guess legs and head I'm not sure) They are not worried about damaging anything. If they kill the pride male, it's a death sentence for all the young regardless.

 

[grand veneur]

On the interesting topic Rhino:

Above all, when the first Europeans arrived in Africa, the rhino was already an animal that was not so common as others. Nowadays the Rhino is extremely endangered, that is out of the question and the main reason is poaching, but looking back you have to ask yourself why there were still so many Rhinos, especially black Rhinos, at the beginning of the 20th century but the population was drastically reduced by the sixties. At that time for a lot of reasons poaching was minimal, but trophy hunting increased significantly over the decades. Perhaps one should have explained a few things to our hunting predecessors and that perhaps they should have been a little more careful when hunting rhinos. It will be difficult to convince the anti-hunting community that we played no role in the drastically reduction of the Rhino population.

 

[RR 314]

As referenced above, once there is no economic value to the animal, they will be killed. Most people with rhino I know in South Africa have dedicated teams to patrol day and night. A large expense. Just like when CBL imports to US were greatly reduced, people will sell “cheap” rhino hunts leading up to the implementation date.

 

[DieJager]

Hopefully there will be some changes to the final implementation