Scope Zero Dependability?

[375Fox]

The 6HD Patrol is available with capped turrets:

PATROL 6HD 1-6x24 ILLUM. FIREDOT DUPLEX

With the Patrol 6HD, you can hit the field without worry. Its ultra-lightweight, low-profile design and 1-6 magnification range let you engage threats anywhere from tight corners to open fields. Whether your mission is to protect and serve or you're looking for an edge in competition, this...

www.leupold.com

My wonderful wife gave me one for Christmas (of course I ordered it with my military discount...).

I also have a Nightforce NX8 1-8x with capped turrets. The only thing I don't like about this scope is it is first focal plane (F1).

NX8 - 1-8x24mm F1 Capped - Nightforce Optics

At only 8.75“ in length and 17 ounces, the NX8™ 1-8X24 F1 is a powerful, compact, and lightweight riflescope. New for 2022, The NX8™ 1-8X24 F1 is now available with a capped elevation turret to ensure the elevation adjustment is not accidentally moved during transit or rough handling.

www.nightforceoptics.com

The VX5 2-10 is available with capped turrets as well, but the non-CDS options are getting very limited. I’m curious if there is someone who can cap turrets. I was previously told to try Kenton industries but they said they couldn’t do it.

 

[Inline6]

Like many here I have used them all. Currently most of my rifles carry Leica, S&B, or Leupold. But there are at least five or six Swaros and a couple of Khales. There is one Vortex and there won't be a second. I just don't care for the whole tacticool with respect to NF including all the extra knobs - and who dreams up those reticles?

The only one of those that has given me a problem was a Leica that inexplicably moved nearly five inches between sight verification and first shot at a game animal. It was replaced by Leica.

Like @Mark A Ouellette, I have used Talley mounts on nearly everything but Blaser for more than twenty years. I have found them to be totally reliable and won't go to Africa without them.

Well, I had a hand in a few of those type of reticle. On the Khales side of optics. They can be used for hunting. Their main objective is to win field matches. When you have 10 targets at multiple distances and 90 seconds to shoot them all you need every advantage you can get. Or if a stage do not allow you to dial you optic and you must use holdovers only.

Most shoots that have been in the game for a while will not touch their windage turret, they hold wind. If you are shoot a COF that is 90° to 270° the wind is not the same direction. You have to make those mores on the fly. If you miss you can use the reticle to measure the distance make the correct and send another. This crosses over into the military application.

In hunting situations, they work well for me. If turret were to fail. I would have the tree to hold over and hold wind if needed. Just a little extra insurance. At the end of the day for a hunting scope, I understand why most like a plain reticle. Whatever works for the end user is best for them.

 

[Altitude sickness]

That is a great video that 375 Fox posted above

I have switched to using 15 inch pounds only. and if the rings don’t have any defects that’s plenty. And there is a huge difference on oil fasteners torque specs so it’s a good point that you need to clean the threads from Oil

every scope and mount manufacturer would do themselves a favor by recommending this video.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

I am not rough on equipment, especially equipment that my life depends on. However, I know accidents can happen. I have used most major brands and a few others. I think it is hard to beat a Leupold. If you are a person that can break a ball bearing, you should look hard at Night Force. I no longer have a need for fighter pilot reticles, huge turrets or a scope that is tough enough to replace a hammer. However, my aging eyes do love an illuminated reticle/red dot.

The basic scopes I love are Leupold VX3 3.5-10x40 and Swarovski Z3 3-10x42. I found it interesting when I offered both those scopes to Melvin Forbes, he immediately said Leupold and stated he will not guarantee accuracy on his ultra lightweight rifles with a Swarovski. I have never had an issue with the Swarovski Z3 and have that scope on 2 of our Rigby's. However, I always sent Melvin a Leupold when he built me a rifle.

I have put Leupold optics and a few others through some harsh conditions. We used to conduct airborne and fast rope infiltrations with the optics attached. I don't recall any issues. I have used EAW, Recknagel, Talley, Warne and Alaskan Arms QD mounts and never had an issue.

Safe hunting

 

[Red Leg]

Well, I had a hand in a few of those type of reticle. On the Khales side of optics. They can be used for hunting. Their main objective is to win field matches. When you have 10 targets at multiple distances and 90 seconds to shoot them all you need every advantage you can get. Or if a stage do not allow you to dial you optic and you must use holdovers only.

Most shoots that have been in the game for a while will not touch their windage turret, they hold wind. If you are shoot a COF that is 90° to 270° the wind is not the same direction. You have to make those mores on the fly. If you miss you can use the reticle to measure the distance make the correct and send another. This crosses over into the military application.

In hunting situations, they work well for me. If turret were to fail. I would have the tree to hold over and hold wind if needed. Just a little extra insurance. At the end of the day for a hunting scope, I understand why most like a plain reticle. Whatever works for the end user is best for them.

Understood. The German No. 4 is ideal or me. Put a red dot in it, and it is perfection. I hunt with mine and don't compete in field matches and don't shoot at game where wind is ever really a problem.

 

[Vintageguy]

I’ve only had a Leupold lose zero once and that was on arrival in South Africa. Oddly enough, one of my turret caps was loose which was impossible as I carefully checked everything while packing the rifle. That was 3 years ago and other trips and flights and the scope hasn’t moved a bit. I blamed it then and still contend one of the clowns inspecting the gun on departure messed with it. I base this on the turret cap and the distance it was off. No way it could’ve moved that far still securely mounted to the rifle and still be a good scope.

 

[samson7x]

I'm a NF fan. The nxs 2-10 is hard to beat for a lightweight, durable optic that tracks true and has good clarity.

I guess the only negative reviews I have were with a Leupold mk5, sig tango, and cheaper vortex. Mk 5 had debris internally and had to go back twice for them to fix it. Tango had a turret break off while riding in a scabbard. Don't recall what happened to the vortex as that was many years ago, but they blamed ring torque although I use proper equipment to mount and torque to manufacturer specs.

 

[TTundra]

But how tough is NF really? Where do they get challenged? They are almost exclusively on bench guns. They have the cool factor, I know that.

The below photo is of a NF NXS that took a 7.62x39 round thru and thru in combat. It was taped over, and used effectively for the duration of the mission. No POA/POI loss. NF is as tough as they come in the NXS series. Also, heavy ad they come.

 

[Monski]

I use a Swarovski 1-6x24 on my 505 Gibbs that has held up for about 60 rounds of full power loads. I use an older Zeiss 1.5-4.5x18 on that same rifle for normal practise/ hunt backup that has held up for about 70 rounds. That scope lacks eye relief but I mounted it out far enough to work. The upper power just doesn't have full field of veiw that way. I broke a trijicon 1-6x24 on that same 505 and another of the same scope on a 375 h&h. I broke a Leupold 1-6x24 on a 416 Remington but in fairness to the Leupold, it was while using a leadsled. I have had good luck with Zeiss Conquest Duralyts in 1.2-5x36 on that 416 and also a 404 Jeffery, the 416 on that leadsled. I won't use a leadsled and expect a scope to hold up in the future. Leupold fixed power 2.5 and 3x scopes have held zero on my 505s.

 

[sureshot375]

I have Swarovski and Luepold. I have drug Leupold VX 3 scopes all over the world and never had a problem.

I bought a Niteforce scope for a 6.5 creedmore. It’s a nice scope, but I tried to hunt with it last year doe culling, and the light transmission was absolute garbage. Terrible in low light.

I’m also not all that impressed with vortex at any price point.

Don’t let the kids talk you into something you don’t need.

 

[Dewald]

I have numerous Zeiss scopes, from vintage 6x32 Diatal, 4x36 Diatal to 3-9x40 first line Conquests and two 3-15x44 Conquests as well as a Diavari *T 1,5-6x44 that worked on a .458 Lott. One 3-9 fell in Namibia, about 4m down a ravine and dented the objective ring. Shot it, it was 1” left, adjusted, and hunted a splendid kudu with it the next day with the 8x60S mounted in Talleys. That was 2008, and I’ve never adjusted it again. Never had another Zeiss issue.

I have vintage Swaro Habicht 3-9x36’s that has never lost zero as well as a newer 2,5-10x42 Habicht on the .375 Ruger Alaskan on Alaska Arms mounts that never lost zero from shooting or dismounting, and ditto for a Z6 1-6x24 on Alaska Arms mounted on a .416 Ruger Alaskan. Never lost a 1/2” because of dismounting, recoil, or falls. Z5 3,5x18x44 comes off the Tikka .308 every time the ATN goes on with Warne QDs and never lost zero.

Same with an old Leupold M4 on a .44 Ruger SBH and a new 3-9x44 Leupold VXR thats been on a few rifles. No problems. I have subsequently replaced the M4 with an Aimpoint H1, but it is still in my safe.

Lastly also never had issues with my Sig Tango-4 6-24x50 on the .243 for playing on gongs, and even the cheap Hawk 3-9x40 on my one Brno .22 holds perfect zero, with the mill dots spot on out to 125m with standard velocity ammunition.

Maybe i’m just lucky, or maybe I look after my optics.

Come to think of it my Leica Ultravid 10x25, old Geovid 10x40, and Austrian military Swarovski 10x40 porro prism Binos also keep lasting, despite living a hard life, yet being maintained after each trip to the bush.

Years ago a VX3 had a reticle problem, i got my money back and bought another old Zeiss conquest 3-9x40.

In summary, if installed correctly I rate QDs in order
1. Alaska Arma
2. Talley
3. Warne
4. Leupold QRW on a picatinny, not the old QR rubbish where the lever was on the base. They are horrible.
Although I own a set of EAW, i don’t have a rifle to mount them on but they seem superb.

As far as the Austrian and German scopes go they have never let me down.

 

[Gemsbok45]

But how tough is NF really? Where do they get challenged? They are almost exclusively on bench guns. They have the cool factor, I know that.

They get challenged in the Military! Last time I saw you don’t fight off a bench.

 

[Safari Dave]

I'm glad this turned into a useful thread.


The RK guy's system for mounting scopes is something, I think, we could all learn from.

I have a NF as well, it's bombproof, but the reticle doesn't really work well for hunting.

I bought a Trijicon Creedo, and, so far, I like it.


I think that European optics have the best glass, but hardly any pass his drop test (I also agree that it is abusive, but it tells me something).




I'm working though some issues with 2 rifles with Leupolds right now, but I've yet to determined the problem is the scope.

 

[Philip Glass]

They get challenged in the Military! Last time I saw you don’t fight off a bench.

Good to know.

 

[Philip Glass]

The below photo is of a NF NXS that took a 7.62x39 round thru and thru in combat. It was taped over, and used effectively for the duration of the mission. No POA/POI loss. NF is as tough as they come in the NXS series. Also, heavy ad they come.

View attachment 578695

Awesome!

 

[ACM]

I will say of all the leupolds I’ve owned, I’ve only had to send one in (& I have reasonably abused all). That particular scope I bought used at a gun shop, it never worked properly, and Leupold still repaired it.
Leupold scopes are very lightweight, and I think they are plenty tough. I would hope the NF and other tacticool scopes would be more durable, they weigh nearly 2x the comparable Leupold!

 

[JimP]

There used to be people who would buy a damaged Leopold on Ebay, send it in to Leopold to be fixed and then resell it on Ebay.

 

[Alaska Luke]

I've seen that website.

I thought they were wrong because I'd had two leopolds take what I thought were hard knocks and hold zero. So I decided to prove that guy wrong. I dropped my leopolds onto a foam matt from about 18 inches. Again I was sure both had dropped farther and held zero. The result? Both scopes lost zero by enough to matter.

Now what is my conclusion? I think a lot of times a scope takes a "hard knock" but in reality some other part of the rifle hits first or maybe it lands on forest duff that is about as soft as a bed mattress. So we go off thinking our scope is bullet proof and it's not. I definitely am not using those two scopes again. I think an 18 inch drop onto a pad is a level of "abuse" that could easily happen from a rough ATV ride or bumping into a bush.

Second I think scope mounts are often a failure point. This is addressed on the other forum and it's something I tried to account for. I torqued the screws appropriately, and I de-greased the screws. Also I used the same rifle and scope mounts to test both scopes. I shoot my suppressed. 308 very well from a benches so I don't think it was me.

I switched to a Trijicon 1-4 on my bear rifle. Seems solid and I like it in low light. I put a Trijicon 2.5-10 Huron on our 308 and it got knocked around all hunting season and definitely fell from being leaned on a try and a few other bumps. It held zero. It also seemed to track better then my Leopolds. The price difference isn't that great so I'll probably use Trijicons for the foreseeable future.

Oh and for the record the old Leopold sniper scopes were tested and held up fine if I recall.

 

[JimP]

A relative had a 7mm08 that was a tack driver. He put it away and a couple years later he couldn't stay on target. The rifle hadn't been fired in those couple of years.

Come to find out the barrel needed to be recrowned. He had damaged it while cleaning it.

Now to dropping scopes, on my last trip I watched my rifle case get dropped a number of times when it was out of my control. Anywhere from 1 to 2 feet.

When we hit the range my Leopold scope was right where it was suppose to be.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

That rok slide test is ridiculously biased, I don’t do turret dialing scopes and that test is all about messing with the dials and dropping them to check tracking
I love Burris brand and leopold and have never seen a failure
my m70 .300 had a Burris that traveled from the equator to the arctic circle for 25 years
I don’t do Swarovski or Zeiss except for spotting scope so have nada to contribute about them on a rifle

@S-3 Ranch
I'm like you. I detest those turret dialing thingys. If I wanted to twiddle something while hunting I would twiddle my thumbs.
They may be alright for those used to them like target shooter and long range guys that like dialling in for a shot but not this black duck.
It would be just my luck I would be dialed in for say 600 yards and forget to reset the zero and a once in a lifetime trophy appears at 150. Then miss it by a mile because I didn't reset my scope.
The ranges I shoot at I don't need all the bells and whistles.
I want to be able to put rifle on shoulder, pull trigger and go pick up game.
A mate has one of those new fangled dially, parallax, target turret scopes with bubble level and the whole shebang. By the time he is set to take the shot he doesn't have to pull the trigger. The bloody animals die of old age first.

All my scopes hold zero and all have for years. The only time I play with them is when I change loads which is very rare. Yes I have dropped rifles but then check zero before hunting again. My scopes aren't expensive but mid range meopta and Zeiss along with a couple of budget scopes. All serve my needs well.
If I damage one while out bush to the point I can't use it I don't care as I always carry a spare scope incase Murphy pays me a visit, dang even took a spare scope to Namibia just in case. So far I've never needed it. Plus where I hunt I usually take 2 rifles incase one fails. So never an issue.

I don't begrudge people that like all the bells and whistles and high dollar optics but they are just not for me and my needs.
I'm just a basic unit that likes to keep things simple.
Bob