What is the ultimate stopping rifle..?

[lionofluangwa]

.500 NE double all day long for me. It surprisingly kicks little for the caliber IMHO, is deadly accurate with enough practice, carries 5,850 foot lbs of stoppage and you got two chances without trying to chamber another shell.

 

[matt85]

Strictly practical? A 500 for a double and a 458 Lott for a bolt gun. The double would be preferred for faster follow up.

Style points? The 577 NE has the history, the penetration, and comes in a package light enough to be practical to carry.

-Matt

 

[Frederik]

My CZ 550 458 Lott with Trijicon 1MOA SRO quick sight alignment.
5 rounds in the magazine plus one up if needed.
500gr Mono solid depends on what you are after or proper solid shank softs.
Running the bullets between 2250 and under 2300fps
Light enough to carry all day and big enough to take anything down.
If I were doing backup all the time I would cut down the barrel to 22" from 25" that is only thing I would change.

Think I just sold myself another 458 lott to meself.

Proper Soild Shank soft that penetrates keeps weight and opens up x 2 diameter.

 

[Tam Dl]

Is this the dream scenario or real world? If one is the newbie client, it may be a while before one gets to stop any charges, both because they don't occur all that often and, you have a pro who will probably realize where the situation is headed before you get a chance.

Don Heath said that there was a light end and a thumping end. He figured he could get anything done with a 9.3x62, except maybe a particularly determined elephant for which he believed at least the 500 Jeff was required to actually stone an elephant. So the point was that with 9.3 or 375, one could do with brain shots anything that one could do with cartridges short of the 500 Jeff. So things like the 450 Lott would not change the outcome. I don't think he was commenting on harvest shots though. If one took a broadside shot for the heart and lungs, maybe the 45s would be significant harvest improvement?

That 9.3 letdown feeling:

 

[Badboymelvin]

I'm going to add a little to the title and say "What is the ultimate stopping rifle... FOR ME?"

A .458 Win Mag loaded with my reloads. That is a 550gn Woodleigh at 2100fps and the 450gn Hydro at 2300fps.

The reason I say it's the ultimate for me is because that's my recoil tolerance without flinching or second thinking the shot because I'm worried about the recoil.

A friend of mine has used a .458 Win Mag with the 550gn Woodleigh at an identical velocity to what I'm getting and found it very effective on Water Buffalo up the NT of Australia.

I've also read that the CEB projectiles are very, very effective but can't comment as I've never used them.

I know the .458 isn't a 'big' DG rifle but the 550gn load is putting out 80ft/lbs of recoil and that is enough for me. So it's the 'biggest' I can shoot.

I also know the .458 isn't cool or exotic but I like it... so that plus what I've written above make it the ultimate for me.

Russ

 

[Brandon.Gleason]

I felt well armed this year with a 458 Lott. If I were to do another dedicated elephant hunt (or a first rhino hunt), I might contemplate stepping up to a 500 class rifle. I tend to shoot bolts better than doubles, so likely a 500 J or 500 A-Squared. That being said, I wouldn't NOT go on the hunt just because I had "only" the Lott.

 

[Franco]

I think the answer lies within your definition of "ultimate stopping". To me, that implies a charge; and you listed elephant, cape buffalo, rhino, and hippo.

If your scenario imagines a caliber which would stop any or all of those regardless of shot placement - it doesn't exist in anything you could take with you into to field. The same applies for a harvest shot.

"Ultimately" - it's a combination of placement and caliber. You need a rifle which not only shoots accurately, you have to shoot it well - meaning both accurately and possibly quickly. Secondly, your bullet has to have the energy to penetrate bone and do damage once it gets there.

There are plenty of discussions on this forum covering the attributes of the multitude of calibers and bullets.

If you are picturing yourself in a situation where one of those big boys is coming straight at you, wounded or otherwise, you are engaging a moving target and off sticks.

Others may disagree, but for me, you need a rifle which you can shoulder quickly while acquiring and maintaining your target, and shoot confidently.

My choice is a double with iron sights; you can acquire your target and maintain situational awareness, and you have the option for a rapid second shot while holding on target.

If the animal is close, there might not be time for a second shot.

"Ultimately" - it's the Indian not the arrow.

 

[bowjijohn]

View attachment 569325

And there you have it

No ideal calibre

No recoil issue - it just doesn’t exist in that kind of time and space

Just a desire for a bigger gun or Scottie from the Enterprise

Joking aside

Though I’ve no experience with doubles - I suspect that it might be my preferred tool

In either Gibbs or Jeffery

 

[IvW]

500 Jeff with minimum 570gr bullets but even better with 600gr bullets.....

 

[Daniel Cary]

"Even in the Contest between Man & Steer, the Issue is Never Certain"

 

[Sourdough]

Buffalo don’t die until they are killed once more.

 

[Flewis]

No no they fall right down! Ask anyone who has Never hunted them.

 

[matt85]

Buffalo don’t die until they are killed once more.

My buffalo took exception to being shot by a 505 Gibbs and tried to get back up. A second point blank 570gr A-frame at 2300fps sat him back down. Then I shot him a few more times to make sure he wasn't trying to fool me, bullets are cheap.

I like the saying "Any decent cartridge will work fine under ideal conditions. A great cartridge works well under less than ideal conditions". If you are an amazing shot with nerves of steel, a 30-06 would be plenty for any dangerous game... However, if your me and you don't notice the small tree between you and the animal, the 30-06 would be a poor choice.

-Matt

 

[Tam Dl]

If one didn't notice the small tree, one's only hope would be that it was a little larger, and the buff didn't notice it either.

Genius bow hunter Barry Wensel has a new book out, and in it he explains his last ditch approach to smaller dangerous game. Barry has a well earned reputation for stopping fast moving targets with arrows from his recurve. His strategy is to throw the bow at the inbound animal, and the bow often gets given a thrashing. No joke, it has worked. (book is one amazon: The Old Man and the Tree, i have no connection)

This video has amazing pictures of moose taking names, and taking care of business. I start it from where one chases a bear up a tree. I know bears climb fast, but the speed at which gets up the first inches, is what impressed me. No worrying about footholds, crampons all the way.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

505 Gibbs in a Bolt Action & 577 Nitro Express in a Double Rifle.

HH

 

[Red Leg]

No no they fall right down! Ask anyone who has Never hunted them.

But they all do fall down within a few yards to a correctly placed 300 or 350 gr .375 or 400 gr .416. Lugging around a .500 anything solves nothing if that first bullet isn't in the right place. I would argue the vast majority of clients, of which I am one, would be far better served worrying about the exact placement of that first shot and a whole lot less about trying to sort out cleaning up a bad one.

 

[Flewis]

But they all do fall down within a few yards to a correctly placed 300 or 350 gr .375 or 400 gr .416. Lugging around a .500 anything solves nothing if that first bullet isn't in the right place. I would argue the vast majority of clients, of which I am one, would be far better served worrying about the exact placement of that first shot and a whole lot less about trying to sort out cleaning up a bad one.

That must be the reason all PHs carry 375s.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

That must be the reason all PHs carry 375s.

Well I’m sure that many do carry 375’s I’ve just never hunted with one that does…

HH

 

[Rare Breed]

But they all do fall down within a few yards to a correctly placed 300 or 350 gr .375 or 400 gr .416. Lugging around a .500 anything solves nothing if that first bullet isn't in the right place. I would argue the vast majority of clients, of which I am one, would be far better served worrying about the exact placement of that first shot and a whole lot less about trying to sort out cleaning up a bad one.

Could not agree more!!!

 

[Red Leg]

That must be the reason all PHs carry 375s.

I have generally found that sarcasm is an overvalued form of humor.

If you would actually read my post, you would see I was referring to the best choice a client could make. Were I a dangerous game PH, I would have a legitimate interest in a stopping rifle. As a client, assuming I have the ability to do my job, it is just a novelty to have in the gunroom or a potential problem to bring on a buffalo hunt. Having said that, if someone with some experience hunting buff wants to limit himself to a 500 class rifle, then fine. He just has to be willing to limit himself to shots he is absolutely certain he can make. That is a significantly smaller sample size than those available to a client with a scoped .375 or .416. Such a shot may or may not happen on a 7 - 10 day hunt.

I have mentioned this before, but my old friend and PH in Mozambique would always say that the only client that really worried him was a first time buffalo hunter with his new double rifle.