What are the ideal components of a Control Round Feed action, and which actions have the best features?

[baxterb]

I would love to get an idea of what people consider not only the best CRF actions, but also, which features they consider the best. In a sense, if you could hybridize the best CRF action, what parts would it borrow from other Actions?

For back story, I already have a few CRF rifles:
-FN Browning Safari -7mm rem mag
-Kimber 8400 -270 win
-ZG 47 -270 win (This one is going to become a 9.3x62, it just does no know it yet)
-ZKK 602 -375 H&H (It has had the standard work done)
-ZKK 600 - 7x57 with the pop up peep
-Parker Hale -7mm rem mag

Of these:
-I tend to prefer the Browning, as I really like the right hand side push forward safety, and because of the fit and finish it came with.
-My silver medal would be the ZKK 600 in 7x57, since I made a new stock for it (it is gorgeous) and because I love the pop up peep.
-My least favorite is the Kimber, as it came with a weak mag spring, and sometimes this results in the bolt sliding over top of a round in the mag, since the spring does not have enough force to hold it perfectly level. Super accurate rifle, but how the hell did the spring issue get past QC?

So what do you think? What is your favorite (and why), and which features do you like the most?
Is there a common action out there that I am really missing out on? (No I am not going to buy a Rigby or something lol)

Echols essentially did what you said - he took everything he liked from many action designs and made his own LX-1. It's very neat.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I had the same trepidation about investment casting until I read that General Electric was investment casting compressor fans in jet engines.

I agree wholeheartedly. My bias against the investment casting method reflects more about my own narrow minded & outdated views that it does about the reliability of rifle actions built by investment casting.

For instance, the old Spanish Santa Barbara Mauser Model 98 actions (that were employed on the Parker Hale rifles of the past) were all formed by investment casting. And they were excellent.

 

[Milan]

I agree wholeheartedly. My bias against the investment casting method reflects more about my own narrow minded & outdated views that it does about the reliability of rifle actions built by investment casting.

For instance, the old Spanish Santa Barbara Mauser Model 98 actions (that were employed on the Parker Hale rifles of the past) were all formed by investment casting. And they were excellent.

I think all Mausers and Brnos/CZs were/are cast. Used to be sand-cast no less. I have not heard of any of them blowing up.

 

[Just a dude in BC]

Echols essentially did what you said - he took everything he liked from many action designs and made his own LX-1. It's very neat.

Can you tell me more about this action? I have never heard of it?

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Among my favorite features of a certain CRF actions are, the ejector being opposite of the extractor on a Mauser. The trigger on the New Haven Winchester’s (also the push feeds) is as simple and dependable as the come. The gas block for the left raceway on the newer Winchester’s. The large bolt shroud in the original Mauser flag saftey is a pretty good diverter of over pressure gasses.

 

[baxterb]

Can you tell me more about this action? I have never heard of it?

Probably best to read Echol's own thoughts on it - I'd never get it all right ;-). but i can tell you they are very nice - I've handled four of them.

From note pad to concept Part 1

I have often been excused of glacial movement in everything I do. So true to character it took 43 years of pushing a boulder uphill to fin...

echolsrifles.blogspot.com

 

[Aaron N]

I agree wholeheartedly. My bias against the investment casting method reflects more about my own narrow minded & outdated views that it does about the reliability of rifle actions built by investment casting.

For instance, the old Spanish Santa Barbara Mauser Model 98 actions (that were employed on the Parker Hale rifles of the past) were all formed by investment casting. And they were excellent.

And some say they are the worst mausers! A fickle bunch we rifle guys are

 

[Milan]

Satterlee action
Notice the safety lever on thumb side on the titanium action. C-breech, simple trigger, double square bridge, etc. I think Stuart used to be on here. Hope he still is. I would think his action is probably the best modern rendition of a Mauser.
Here is one of his past posts. Notice the integral picatinny on one of the actions.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Yea not going to lie, I was not expecting stripper clips to come up...

 

[Cheesehead]

Satterlee action
Notice the safety lever on thumb side on the titanium action. C-breech, simple trigger, double square bridge, etc. I think Stuart used to be on here. Hope he still is. I would think his action is probably the best modern rendition of a Mauser.
Here is one of his past posts. Notice the integral picatinny on one of the actions.

Has anyone used a thumb-side safety like that? I wonder if it would be more natural to disengage as you mount the rifle vs the safety in the typical location.

I've found the back to fire safeties like the BRNO rifles (and the CZ 527) to be pretty quick to use. It's like cocking the hammer on a lever gun as you bring it up, at least to me.

 

[Just a dude in BC]

Has anyone used a thumb-side safety like that? I wonder if it would be more natural to disengage as you mount the rifle vs the safety in the typical location.

I've found the back to fire safeties like the BRNO rifles (and the CZ 527) to be pretty quick to use. It's like cocking the hammer on a lever gun as you bring it up, at least to me.

I like the safeties in the same spot as the CZ's, but I prefer a push forward to fire.
My ideal safety is a push forward safety in the middle of the grip, like on a Ruger no.1

 

[BeeMaa]

 

[colorado]

I think all Mausers and Brnos/CZs were/are cast. Used to be sand-cast no less. I have not heard of any of them blowing up.

The brochure that came with my CZ 550 I bought about 10 years ago says the action is machined from a single piece of forged billet.

 

[Milan]

The brochure that came with my CZ 550 I bought about 10 years ago says the action is machined from a single piece of forged billet.

Possible and good to know. I know the old Mausers were cast. One of the reasons some of the newer actions might be stronger is starting with a billet. But I think even the cast ones are excellent. Do you know if the ZGs were billet or cast? CZ pistol frames are still cast today.

I'd like to find some definite answer on what method was used by whom and when. In the end, I think any Mauser/brno/cz after 1908, let's say, is good for anything. Especially the post WWII ones.

What kills me is that some generic info searches claim old receivers were machined out of billet and new ones are investment castings. Hence the old ones being potentially more robust.

Like I said, I'd like to find definite answer or maybe have some old and new cut up and have an expert tell me which was which.

 

[IvW]

Has anyone used a thumb-side safety like that? I wonder if it would be more natural to disengage as you mount the rifle vs the safety in the typical location.

I've found the back to fire safeties like the BRNO rifles (and the CZ 527) to be pretty quick to use. It's like cocking the hammer on a lever gun as you bring it up, at least to me.

I have 3 rifles on ZKK.....there are 2 issues with the safety that needs to be kept in mind.....
African carry can easily have the safety being brushed off.
During rapid reloading you can push the safety forward while moving the bolt forward and locking it

 

[Milan]

If we assume similar or same manufacturing methods of the time, then this would suggest receivers were forged.

 

[Aaron N]

The brochure that came with my CZ 550 I bought about 10 years ago says the action is machined from a single piece of forged billet.

If we get right down to the nuts and bolts of it, isn’t anything metallic essentially “cast” at some point? That ore doesn’t shape itself into a billet without meant melted first

 

[Milan]

If we get right down to the nuts and bolts of it, isn’t anything metallic essentially “cast” at some point? That ore doesn’t shape itself into a billet without meant melted first

Yes true. Only forging a previously cast piece into a billet seems to really pound the molecules into a denser pattern. I don't think they pound the investment castings of precisely cast parts. So, then the forged parts should be stronger than cast ones, no? I'm not an engineer, so have no clue, but this has been my understanding. I would just like to know what's what just to be more informed and to know which parts were made by what process.

 

[Aaron N]

Yes true. Only forging a previously cast piece into a billet seems to really pound the molecules into a denser pattern. I don't think they pound the investment castings of precisely cast parts. So, then the forged parts should be stronger than cast ones, no? I'm not an engineer, so have no clue, but this has been my understanding. I would just like to know what's what just to be more informed and to know which parts were made by what process.

Interesting point.

Would round stock used for an action first be forged, and then machined? I have no idea as well. There has to be a metallurgical engineer somewhere in this community that can take us into a far too detailed discussion about processes as well as the pros and cons.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I took an 8mm post WWII Brno vz.24 and made it into a 404 Jeffery. Military flag safety is fine for combat soldiers with unknown or limited experience with guns. But for hunting they are not for me. Too fiddly. It's a two finger task moving the flag from right side to left side of the bolt shroud. Leaving the flag in position two straight up is not a good plan when stalking. The bolt can pop open accidentally. And, of course, flag safety doesn't work with a scope. Wing style aftermarket scope relief safeties are two position only. Be aware that some of those will disengage if the bolt is rattled. Also, if the scope is detached for optional iron sights, the wing safety is then vulnerable to being accidentally disengaged in the safe position. So I opted for aftermarket 3-position Model 70 safety. Those are tough to beat. Out of the way and 3-position so the gun can be loaded/unloaded with striker locked.