Solid bullets for Buffalo? Yes or No?

[Masai]

Hi, in order to not bring a mix of bullets during the stalk, what are your thoughts about using only solids for buffalo? I am talking for 375HH Mag or bigger, for example .470NE (which is already a much larger caliber).

My impression is that when stalking, is best to bring the least amount of options and gadgets (8-10 rounds + knife + binos + water + phone) . When action starts, the least things to get mixed with, the better.
I read some people is even shooting an express rifle with one bullet of each and making the decision on the go. This is probably the oposite of what I would do because is too much thinking on that precise moment.
This includes leaving at the car the backpack with all the bells and whistles (AKA hunting toys).

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Dear Masai,

From 1974-1993, my preferred setup (in .375 Holland & Holland Magnum magazine rifles and a .458 Winchester Magnum double rifle on one occasion) was an RWS 300Gr Kegelspitze soft point for the first shot… followed by RWS (and later Remington after 1982) 300Gr round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solids in the rest of the magazine for the follow up shots.

Please note that for the .458 Winchester Magnum double rifle, I used a hand loaded Hornady 500Gr soft point in the left barrel (for the first shot) and a hand loaded Hornady 500Gr round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solid in the right barrel (for the second shot).

In 1993, I discovered Federal Premium 300Gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and began to exclusively load the magazine with them. I never used another solid bullet for Cape buffalo to date. In recent years, due to the lack of availability of Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claws… I shifted to Barnes TSX which I am personally growing quite fond of.

With solids (esp. those under .500 bore), you’re essentially relying only on the diameter of the bullet to punch a wound channel through the vital organs on a Cape buffalo (during a body shot). A modern controlled expansion bullet (such as Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, Swift A Frame, Rhino Solid Shank or Barnes TXS or Hornady DGX Bonded) holds together almost as well as a solid does when raking the vital organs of a Cape buffalo from almost all angles (except perhaps acute angles) … and it does this by generating a larger wound channel. Larger wound channels accelerate blood loss and cause the Cape buffalo to succumb to it’s injuries noticeably faster.

The idea of using solid bullets on Cape buffalo was once the standard amongst Cape buffalo hunters of our generation until the 1980s when controlled expansion bullets began to hit the market (Swift released the A Frame in 1984, Barnes released the X hollow point in 1989 & Federal began to load the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw in 1993).

I believe that it was the Australian sportsmen who first began to champion the idea of using expanding bullets against bovines as early as the 1970s. When I first visited Australia in 1975, I met a local hunter who was using those beastly 220Gr Winchester Silver Tips (fired from a .300 Holland & Holland Magnum pre ‘64 Winchester Model 70) to take down water buffalo with broadside double lung shots by aiming for the soft region behind the shoulder. He was very successful at it, too.

In my personal experience, the only reason to load solids for Cape buffalo in modern times is if you’re in elephant country & you happen to be the white hunter.

Warmest Regards,
Habib

 

[Graham Hunter]

I believe that years ago a solid was necessary due to the fact that soft point were too frangible. I shot one Buff with my 375 and 300gr solids. Two up the butt. One frontal shot straight thru the heart and a couple more body shots to put him down. I will never again use solids for Buff. TSX, A Frame, CX or TBBC are a much better choice.

 

[mdwest]

no solids for buff for me...

im in the use a quality, tough, expanding bullet camp... like an A-Frame, TSX, TBBC, etc..

 

[375Fox]

You should consider leaving the solids if you only want to take one type of ammo for buffalo, only bring premium softs. Solids don’t kill as quickly as expanding bullets. A good broadside shot with a premium expanding bullet will put a buffalo down quickly. That same shot may turn into a long tracking session with a solid. If you want to use solids they are for follow up shots where angles aren’t perfect and penetration is more important. Initial shots you wait for the correct shot presentation so an expanding bullet can do more damage to the vitals.

I have no problem using solids for buffalo if that is the PH’s preference. They served me well on follow up shots on my first buffalo, but I will never use a solid for a first shot. I’d prefer to only bring swift A frames or TBBCs for buffalo if PH doesn’t insist on solids for follow up.

 

[AimSmall]

You can always use the solids for the tiny antelope, too!

 

[matt85]

As the others have said, a good modern expanding bullet ideal for buffalo.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

Only one, like others said. Good bullet like Aframe, Barnes TXS, Northfork. I have taken 5 buff and never fired a solid. I prefer Aframes. PH said if I was loaded with Aframes that's all that was needed.

 

[C.W. Richter]

For follow up shots on a wounded buff, only.

 

[Red Leg]

When I approach a buffalo it is with a magazine full of 300 gr A Frames or TSX's - first shot and any follow-up. If I bring solids they are for the tiny ten like duiker or suni.

 

[TOBY458]

Solids, these days, are for Elephant and maybe Hippo on land. Not needed for Buffalo IMO. With the good expanding bullets we have today, you can get all the penetration you need, and cause much more trauma in the process.

 

[Bowandarrowman]

I have no experience with Cape buffalo. But my guess is that any name brand solid would be fine and more or less act the same as any other brand. Straight and true through the targets. At least well enough that it wouldn't matter enough to make a huge difference. Regarding expanding bullets I really honestly believe, again, that most name brand bullets would suffice provided they were intended for "tough bullet" use. I seriously doubt that anyone can prove one way or another that one brand is really any better than another. I think your best bet is to see which will shoot the best of of your gun. I seriously doubt that an expensive bullet will perform any better than a cheap one (within reason of course.) Meaning I doubt that a 5 dollar bullet from Woodleigh will do better than a 1 dollar DGX from Hornady (I made the prices up, they're not real prices, just an example to make a point.)

And like Eaglesnester said, check with your Guide. He may at the very least steer you away from bullets that don't perform well if he doesn't have an idea to the best bullet available.

That said, pick the bullets you are the most comfortable with.

 

[grand veneur]

Hi, in order to not bring a mix of bullets during the stalk, what are your thoughts about using only solids for buffalo? I am talking for 375HH Mag or bigger, for example .470NE (which is already a much larger caliber).

My impression is that when stalking, is best to bring the least amount of options and gadgets (8-10 rounds + knife + binos + water + phone) . When action starts, the least things to get mixed with, the better.
I read some people is even shooting an express rifle with one bullet of each and making the decision on the go. This is probably the oposite of what I would do because is too much thinking on that precise moment.
This includes leaving at the car the backpack with all the bells and whistles (AKA hunting toys).

We already had this topic and it was discussed controversially.

In principle there is nothing wrong with using FMJ or Monolithic bullets for buffalo hunting, but based on the various bullets that are available nowadays, regardless of the caliber, there are much better options for shooting buffalos. The fact that it is easier to use only one type of bullet is not an argument for using only FMJ or Monolithic bullets for this hunting. In this case it is better as client to use only premium bullets such as A-frame from Swift or TSX from Barnes.

One can shoot buffalos with FMJ or Monolithic bullets, especially if you have, because of the cartridge used, concerns about the depth penetration of the bullet, but that's another topic. I shot some buffalos with classic FMJ bullets of various calibers. It works, but for the same shot placement and penetration, modern expansion bullets works much better.

 

[russ473]

Barnes work well on buffalo, make your 1st shot count, if you do get charged your ph will have solids and barnes still penetrate fine with the petals opening up if your brain shot is marginal with the shank acting like a solid.....

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Only softs for client

 

[PCC600]

I only ever use soft points on buffalo. Modern expanding bullets are great and penetration is fabulous .

 

[michael458]

SSDD.......... OMG...............

Title....... Solid Bullets for Buffalo? Yes Or No?

First line;

Hi, in order to not bring a mix of bullets during the stalk, what are your thoughts about using only solids for buffalo?

That is two different thought processes, not the same.

You "Experts" can do as you please, you can use slingshots loaded with Woodlieghs if you want..... I don't care.

Here is what I have always done............ For Buffalo........ 1st Shot Trauma Inflicting bullet, meaning Swift, Woodliegh, Barnes, Raptors whatever... You do understand the meaning Trauma Inflicting, correct? Then followed up by Solids, in the early days this was always a Barnes RN Solid, this is what we had, or Woodliegh FMJ, which I did not use. Then we learned about Barnes Flat Nose Solids, and this changed the game in a big way....... Later we developed the CEB #13 Solids, and had some input in the current North Fork Solids.........

But here, I am hearing you just don't need Solids for buffalo period, the Swifts, the Barnes, the Woodliegh Softs, and and and are all so good today, Solids are just not required, so say the Powers the Be.........

I suppose most of these no solid proponents do not plan on second shots, or third, or more? I suppose the No Solid Crowd all their buffalo lay down and die on the spot, they never buck up, run through the brush and trees. If you do not plan on a second shot, why are you using a Bolt Gun, or a Double..... Just take a good strong Ruger #1, since you are not going to need anymore than one shot anyway? And then there is this;

if you do get charged your ph will have solids

Yeah, you don't need solids, let your PH sort out your problems.............

Ok, if you do not plan to fire a second round, then you don't need solids, you don't need a bolt gun or double, you need not even have concerns, your PH will sort the problem out for you.......

What happens when you Open a Dance with Buffalo? Here is what happens, you have your first shot, Swift, Barnes, Woodliegh, Raptors, Lehighs, Hammers, whatever, you wait on the best shot possible, to put that bullet in the front end, hit vitals, and cause as much trauma as possible. It is very rare that a Buffalo will just give up and fall over at the shot, so he is going to buck up, and run away most of the time......... Now, here is your choice, you can shoot again, and again and again if possible, you opened this dance, it is your responsibility to finish the dance, that is if you are half a damn man, what tool do you think is going to be best, if you have to fire at the South End of a North Bound Bull? Do you think for a second that your big bore Swift, Barnes, Woodliegh, Raptor, Hammer or whatever can go the distance? Maybe you are so proficient in your second shot you can hit pelvis and put him down or slow him up, all while he is dodging and on the run? Why it is possible I have misjudged you in that case? What about dodging and running through brush? How is that Trauma Inflicting bullet going to do when encountering brush? Not so well I believe.

People, this is not a GDamn Game, this is serious business, if you are a serious shooter, you will realize that the best way to solve the problem you insitgated is to have the proper tools for the mission at hand, and in this case, it is a Properly Designed Solid that will hit hard up front, and drive DEEP and Straight to accomplish your mission, which is to put that Buffalo in the dirt permanently. To insure you can go the distance, to ensure you have a better chance of shooting through brush, trees, and other obstacles, only a Properly Designed Solid can accomplish this. You continue to shoot until; You no longer have any opportunity to take a shot, you are out of Ammo, or your problem is solved, and if you are a shooter, even if the problem is solved, you will pay the insurance.
Early in my endeavors, I learned that for all Dangerous Game, a good Solid was a very handy tool to have, yes, even thin skinned species, lion/bear. Everything in the field does not always work out perfectly, every shot is not perfect, and if something does not go the way you expect it to, then it is best to have a tool that can handle the heavy lifiting if needed. The last few years that I was in the field, I did not require many Trauma Inflicting Bullets, my load out woudl always be around 75% Solids, the rest Trauma Inflicting......... 1st Shot to cause Trauma, every shot thereafter to solve the Problem. A Proper Designed Solid will solve issues that arise unexpected or expected, in the field, where life is just not perfect like it is sitting behind the Key Board, or on the Range, or in your mind.



There are many good reasons to have a Proper Designed Solid in your Tool Pouch, and there is NOT ONE GOOD REASON NOT TO..............

 

[michael458]

Only softs for client

HEH HEH............ This is so good, so appropriate............. And not all together wrong, if I were this PH, I would have to consider exactly that rule of thumb, especially based on the "Quality of Hunters" involved. Notice, I said Hunters, not Shooters...... there is one hell of a big difference. If you are offended, Oh well....... Here is the fact of the matter, I spent 20 years in the field, have been on mulitple hunts around the world, and have heard all the stories from multiple PH's and Friends about just how unprepared some visiting Client Hunters are. Some never even fired or sighted in their rifles before arriving, PH had to do so. Some have no idea what ammo they had with them, some had ammo their gunsmiths recommended, (Gunsmiths that had never heard of the place you are headed, never seen a buffalo).....Some picked up their ammo at the Walmart...... and and and and................

I was totally SHOCKED when I heard some of this in my early endeavers to the field. I found it hard to believe until I actually met some of these. I came from a world of Shooting, decided I would hunt later in that world. I came from a world where one studied the best options for bullets and ammo, and a world where shooting 500-1000 rounds a week was common. I came from world where one tested throughly the bullets and how they behave before going to the field........... I came from a world when you were getting your Big Bore rifle ready for a hunt/shoot, then you started months ahead of time, you fired easy 500 rounds through that rifle to check every single possible issue with your ammo, bullet, rifle and cartridge............... Not from a world where you don't even fire your rifle before hitting the field???????

So, Softs only For Clients....... Makes perfect sense to me, since you are not profiecient enough to understand the mission upon which you have embarked.......... Well done @Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS, I concur with you.......... Most are not able to sort out the problems.......

Yes, I am in a bit of a Rant.......... So what............ rediculous........... SSDD...........My Apologies if anyone is offended, ???? Hmmmm, really............

 

[grand veneur]

SSDD.......... OMG...............

Title....... Solid Bullets for Buffalo? Yes Or No?

First line;


That is two different thought processes, not the same.

You "Experts" can do as you please, you can use slingshots loaded with Woodlieghs if you want..... I don't care.

Here is what I have always done............ For Buffalo........ 1st Shot Trauma Inflicting bullet, meaning Swift, Woodliegh, Barnes, Raptors whatever... You do understand the meaning Trauma Inflicting, correct? Then followed up by Solids, in the early days this was always a Barnes RN Solid, this is what we had, or Woodliegh FMJ, which I did not use. Then we learned about Barnes Flat Nose Solids, and this changed the game in a big way....... Later we developed the CEB #13 Solids, and had some input in the current North Fork Solids.........

But here, I am hearing you just don't need Solids for buffalo period, the Swifts, the Barnes, the Woodliegh Softs, and and and are all so good today, Solids are just not required, so say the Powers the Be.........

I suppose most of these no solid proponents do not plan on second shots, or third, or more? I suppose the No Solid Crowd all their buffalo lay down and die on the spot, they never buck up, run through the brush and trees. If you do not plan on a second shot, why are you using a Bolt Gun, or a Double..... Just take a good strong Ruger #1, since you are not going to need anymore than one shot anyway? And then there is this;


Yeah, you don't need solids, let your PH sort out your problems.............

Ok, if you do not plan to fire a second round, then you don't need solids, you don't need a bolt gun or double, you need not even have concerns, your PH will sort the problem out for you.......

What happens when you Open a Dance with Buffalo? Here is what happens, you have your first shot, Swift, Barnes, Woodliegh, Raptors, Lehighs, Hammers, whatever, you wait on the best shot possible, to put that bullet in the front end, hit vitals, and cause as much trauma as possible. It is very rare that a Buffalo will just give up and fall over at the shot, so he is going to buck up, and run away most of the time......... Now, here is your choice, you can shoot again, and again and again if possible, you opened this dance, it is your responsibility to finish the dance, that is if you are half a damn man, what tool do you think is going to be best, if you have to fire at the South End of a North Bound Bull? Do you think for a second that your big bore Swift, Barnes, Woodliegh, Raptor, Hammer or whatever can go the distance? Maybe you are so proficient in your second shot you can hit pelvis and put him down or slow him up, all while he is dodging and on the run? Why it is possible I have misjudged you in that case? What about dodging and running through brush? How is that Trauma Inflicting bullet going to do when encountering brush? Not so well I believe.

People, this is not a GDamn Game, this is serious business, if you are a serious shooter, you will realize that the best way to solve the problem you insitgated is to have the proper tools for the mission at hand, and in this case, it is a Properly Designed Solid that will hit hard up front, and drive DEEP and Straight to accomplish your mission, which is to put that Buffalo in the dirt permanently. To insure you can go the distance, to ensure you have a better chance of shooting through brush, trees, and other obstacles, only a Properly Designed Solid can accomplish this. You continue to shoot until; You no longer have any opportunity to take a shot, you are out of Ammo, or your problem is solved, and if you are a shooter, even if the problem is solved, you will pay the insurance.
Early in my endeavors, I learned that for all Dangerous Game, a good Solid was a very handy tool to have, yes, even thin skinned species, lion/bear. Everything in the field does not always work out perfectly, every shot is not perfect, and if something does not go the way you expect it to, then it is best to have a tool that can handle the heavy lifiting if needed. The last few years that I was in the field, I did not require many Trauma Inflicting Bullets, my load out woudl always be around 75% Solids, the rest Trauma Inflicting......... 1st Shot to cause Trauma, every shot thereafter to solve the Problem. A Proper Designed Solid will solve issues that arise unexpected or expected, in the field, where life is just not perfect like it is sitting behind the Key Board, or on the Range, or in your mind.



There are many good reasons to have a Proper Designed Solid in your Tool Pouch, and there is NOT ONE GOOD REASON NOT TO..............

A lot depends on the experience of each hunter. The majority of us hunt with a PH, few of us non-professionals have hunted buffalos without someone for backup. In general as a client nowadays you have to use for the first shot on a buffalo a SP bullet and as far as a second shot is concerned, it can be debated whether one use SP bullets or solids. It is certain that in a dangerous situation it is better to use solids, but how far as client with little experience of buffalo hunting one is able to do something in such a situation is doubtful. Because of this whether one as client should have solids with or not is another question.

 

[Foxi]

80% solid.
I have never had a bad experience with it.
Also the kitchen shots at Antelope almost everything with solid.
Always the first choice for me when it comes to thick stuff.
Even if I'm pretty much alone with this opinion.
But I also have a few personal experiences.
Look at the picture, what do you want with a soft in that botanic?
The buffalo in my Avartar rolled over after 50-60 metres like a rabbit in a full shotgun blast
Wasn't the only one.
MS wrote that he wants to be sure that there is also a deep hole in it(engine room, logo).
That's how I see it too.
I didn't get my strongest buffalo because I had loaded a soft bullet. It wouldn't have been able to withstand the change, we were too close. With solid I would have shot it too.