Safari Raptor by Cutting Edge bullets for .500 Nitro Express

[krusin]

I am in the process of preparing for my upcoming trip to Africa. I am considering using Cutting Edge bullets for my 500 Nitro Express double barrel rifle. Has anyone here used these bullets before, especially the .510 475 gr Safari Raptor? The reviews have been excellent, and the slow-motion video in ballistic gel is quite impressive. You can find more information through the link below.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/prod...tor-nitro-express?_pos=3&_fid=08f6de1c0&_ss=c

 

[Rare Breed]

I am in the process of preparing for my upcoming trip to Africa. I am considering using Cutting Edge bullets for my 500 Nitro Express double barrel rifle. Has anyone here used these bullets before, especially the .510 475 gr Safari Raptor? The reviews have been excellent, and the slow-motion video in ballistic gel is quite impressive. You can find more information through the link below.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/prod...tor-nitro-express?_pos=3&_fid=08f6de1c0&_ss=c

View attachment 594088View attachment 594089

I am using their CEB Solids in three weeks for my zim elephant hunt

 

[Green Chile]

Curious to hear more about your regulation results and loads.

 

[krusin]

I will definitely post an update if I can justify the price of the bullets. The website states that the minimum order for these bullets is 250 pieces.
I really don’t need that many. 100-150 should be enough to develop loads and hunt a few times.

I usually practice with a SxS 12 gauge shotgun, which kicks less than a rifle but is otherwise similar. So I figured out that this should be good for the development of muscle memory, instead of using a double barrel rifle with expensive ammo. Any comments on this practice strategy?

 

[Green Chile]

That strategy works fine and is a lot better than guys doing nothing! I would also get comfortable with shooting sticks and setting up on them quickly. You can do that with no ammo in gun or use the shotgun. It will help for sure.

 

[zephyr]

*I have had tremendous success shooting both Plains and Dangerous Game with CEB Safari Raptors and Solids... Buff and Ele plus numerous plains game using my Gibbs 450NE made in 1903 and other Bolt Guns .
**The Bullets were easy to regulate shooting the 480 Solid and 450 Raptor
***My suggestion is to load reduced loads for your 500 using either TrailBoss, 5744 or H4859 You will be shooting thr same gun same sights and same trigger pull you will be able to work on moving and reloading and shooting without worrying about establishing any sort of flinch ... Granted you can do the same with a shotgun but not the same as shooting your double

 

[matt85]

I have never bought into the idea of bullets designed to come apart. I have seen tests done with RIP bullets on pigs and the little pieces didn't go far in the animal. CEB may be better, many people seem to like them.

 

[michael458]

I am considering using Cutting Edge bullets for my 500 Nitro Express double barrel rifle. Has anyone here used these bullets before, especially the .510 475 gr Safari Raptor? The reviews have been excellent,

My friend and test partner Sam Rose in NC were doing a tremendous amount of load data and bullet tech with 500 NE in 2012 and 2013. At the time we had developed the standard 570 CEB Solid, and matching Raptor at 535 gr. We were not only doing load data, but pressure data as well. We were also prepping for a buffalo shoot in Australia with our friend/guide Paul Truccolo. Sam knew very well the huge successes I had with 500 MDM and lighter for caliber Raptors and Solids, so a few weeks before leaving for Australia Sam had Dan at CEB do a 510 gr Solid and matching 475 Raptor. Bullets arrived without a lot of time to do load data, so they were loaded with just a tad more powder than the standard weights of 570/535 and we were off....................

In my 500 MDM Winchester M70s at .500 caliber I used a 450 Raptor at over 2400 fps, and it was deadly devastating on buffalo, the most devastating trauma inflicting bullet I had ever used, and I have used them all, Woodliegh, Swift, Barnes, and more........... Nothing and I mean nothing I had ever seen was more devastating on animal tissue than a Raptor. No conventional premium bullet can inflict the trauma that a Raptor inflicts, and no conventional bullet can come close to the penetration of the remaining solid bullet after blade shear. This goes for all calibers, not just big bores and buffalo.

On the buffalo shoot Sam was only running the 475 Raptor at around 2200 fps. He shot several buffalo with the 535 Raptors at 2150 fps or so, and several with the 475 Raptors at 2200 fps. Both were devastating, with both buffalo just stood, quivered, and went down. Almost none took more than one or two steps, or simply turned and fell. The 475 Raptors gave better penetration than the 535s, we recovered a few 535s at the lower velocity, but recovered none of the 475 bases. Now, I have to say that there were some instances that the 535 bases had more travel, at more severe angles and this contributed to finding a few. One thing that was noticeable in animal reactions, the 475 hit harder with its small amount of added velocity. Sam had added Talon Tips to the 475s so to make sure he could distinguish between the two bullets, this also added 125-150 fps impact velocity at 50 yards over an un-tipped bullet. This had a tremendous effect on impact velocity.

The 510 Solid was used several times, incredible penetration with it as expected, none recovered.

Now, back to the Lab and doing data and pressure data............... We like to keep Double Rifles at less than 45000 PSI. We do not exceed that pressure. We tested a few different powders, I even did some blended loads blending IMR 8208 with RL 15. The RL 15 loads came out on top with the 510 Solids up to 2306 fps at 43400 PSI and the 475 Raptors at 2312 fps at 39200 PSI with the exact same load. Yes, these regulated in 3 different 500 NE rifles, hole for hole....... Later the same load in a new Heym Sam bought gave 2452 fps with no pressure signs at all. Pressures were not tested in the Heym. There have been many folks using the 510 Solids on elephant with extreme success, and the same loads we tested here. 475 Raptors have become more popular than the heavier Raptors. The added velocity of the 475 Raptor is absolutely devastating.

Raptors are the most wicked tissue destroying bullet that you can use, period. Following very closely by the Generation 1 CNC bullets, such as Hammer, CEB Maximus and copper Lehighs. No Conventional Expanding bullet can do the damage and the amount of penetration that either of these type bullets can produce, not even close.

I do not shoot double rifles and I do not care for them personally. I am a Winchester M70 Fan for the field. But I also love Ruger #1s, and recently came across a Ruger #1 in 50/90, which for all intensive purposes is a 2.5 inch 500 NE........... I quickly developed loads for this gun using 510 Solids and 475 Raptors....... Running the 510 Solids at 2180 to 2200 fps and the 475 Raptor to 2267 fps, I could go more, but I don't really want to......... LOL............

The photos show my 50/90 loaded with 475 Raptors with Talon Tip added................

I can promise you this much, if you use the 475 Raptor, put the bullet in the front end of a buffalo, you hunt will be over quickly and decisively.

 

[AZDAVE]

A ruger #1 in 50/90 would be an interesting rifle for sure. I have a old roolling block in 50/90 that is just fun to shoot. However and a much lower pressures than the #1.

 

[krusin]

@michael458 Is there anyway you can share load data for 500 NE and Raptors? I would really appreciate it. Please PM me.

 

[michael458]

@michael458 Is there anyway you can share load data for 500 NE and Raptors? I would really appreciate it. Please PM me.

Yes, however you must remember that your powder is not my powder, and follow safe loading proceedures by reducing the load accordingly, working your way up of course to a point. The top powder for this was RL 15, and RL 15 and some other RL powders are notorious for being different, not only Lot# to Lot#, but from the same keg, can, or other from the same lot#. This is why I take ALL RL POWDERS and blend all of it together, then test that blend. In other words for example 20 lbs in a clean 5 gallon bucket, mix it up good, and then repackage and label it properly.............. So yes, I will post some data for you, but be extremely cautious.............

 

[michael458]

While I try and put some other data together, I will post this for you. Here we did some case measurements at different pressure levels, this gives you a guide with your own loads, by measuring the amount of case expansion at the given point from a full length sized and fired case, to after being fired with your load. Example, if you measure .002 expansion then you are between 39000 and 40500 PSI. Now, you must keep in mind, todays brass might not be the same as what we used in 2013, so still you have to make sure this is not 100% absolute, but a guide line, a rule of thumb that you can work with.

Here we also show the difference of pressure/velocity with different makes of brass.

And below that a test showing two different batches of RL 15, same Lot# one mine, the other was Sam's.......... Sam's RL 15 was NOT my RL 15, even with the same Lot# and it caused a 5000 PSI difference, and that could be critical at top end pressures............

 

[krusin]

I’m relatively experienced with reloading. I do “blending” for my powders too. All my experience however is with smaller cartridges.
Thank you for the info.

 

[Rare Breed]

My friend and test partner Sam Rose in NC were doing a tremendous amount of load data and bullet tech with 500 NE in 2012 and 2013. At the time we had developed the standard 570 CEB Solid, and matching Raptor at 535 gr. We were not only doing load data, but pressure data as well. We were also prepping for a buffalo shoot in Australia with our friend/guide Paul Truccolo. Sam knew very well the huge successes I had with 500 MDM and lighter for caliber Raptors and Solids, so a few weeks before leaving for Australia Sam had Dan at CEB do a 510 gr Solid and matching 475 Raptor. Bullets arrived without a lot of time to do load data, so they were loaded with just a tad more powder than the standard weights of 570/535 and we were off....................

In my 500 MDM Winchester M70s at .500 caliber I used a 450 Raptor at over 2400 fps, and it was deadly devastating on buffalo, the most devastating trauma inflicting bullet I had ever used, and I have used them all, Woodliegh, Swift, Barnes, and more........... Nothing and I mean nothing I had ever seen was more devastating on animal tissue than a Raptor. No conventional premium bullet can inflict the trauma that a Raptor inflicts, and no conventional bullet can come close to the penetration of the remaining solid bullet after blade shear. This goes for all calibers, not just big bores and buffalo.

On the buffalo shoot Sam was only running the 475 Raptor at around 2200 fps. He shot several buffalo with the 535 Raptors at 2150 fps or so, and several with the 475 Raptors at 2200 fps. Both were devastating, with both buffalo just stood, quivered, and went down. Almost none took more than one or two steps, or simply turned and fell. The 475 Raptors gave better penetration than the 535s, we recovered a few 535s at the lower velocity, but recovered none of the 475 bases. Now, I have to say that there were some instances that the 535 bases had more travel, at more severe angles and this contributed to finding a few. One thing that was noticeable in animal reactions, the 475 hit harder with its small amount of added velocity. Sam had added Talon Tips to the 475s so to make sure he could distinguish between the two bullets, this also added 125-150 fps impact velocity at 50 yards over an un-tipped bullet. This had a tremendous effect on impact velocity.

The 510 Solid was used several times, incredible penetration with it as expected, none recovered.

Now, back to the Lab and doing data and pressure data............... We like to keep Double Rifles at less than 45000 PSI. We do not exceed that pressure. We tested a few different powders, I even did some blended loads blending IMR 8208 with RL 15. The RL 15 loads came out on top with the 510 Solids up to 2306 fps at 43400 PSI and the 475 Raptors at 2312 fps at 39200 PSI with the exact same load. Yes, these regulated in 3 different 500 NE rifles, hole for hole....... Later the same load in a new Heym Sam bought gave 2452 fps with no pressure signs at all. Pressures were not tested in the Heym. There have been many folks using the 510 Solids on elephant with extreme success, and the same loads we tested here. 475 Raptors have become more popular than the heavier Raptors. The added velocity of the 475 Raptor is absolutely devastating.

Raptors are the most wicked tissue destroying bullet that you can use, period. Following very closely by the Generation 1 CNC bullets, such as Hammer, CEB Maximus and copper Lehighs. No Conventional Expanding bullet can do the damage and the amount of penetration that either of these type bullets can produce, not even close.

I do not shoot double rifles and I do not care for them personally. I am a Winchester M70 Fan for the field. But I also love Ruger #1s, and recently came across a Ruger #1 in 50/90, which for all intensive purposes is a 2.5 inch 500 NE........... I quickly developed loads for this gun using 510 Solids and 475 Raptors....... Running the 510 Solids at 2180 to 2200 fps and the 475 Raptor to 2267 fps, I could go more, but I don't really want to......... LOL............

The photos show my 50/90 loaded with 475 Raptors with Talon Tip added................

View attachment 594387

View attachment 594388

View attachment 594389

I can promise you this much, if you use the 475 Raptor, put the bullet in the front end of a buffalo, you hunt will be over quickly and decisively.

very nice post!!! Appreciate the detail and expertise!

 

[RR 314]

Yes, however you must remember that your powder is not my powder, and follow safe loading proceedures by reducing the load accordingly, working your way up of course to a point. The top powder for this was RL 15, and RL 15 and some other RL powders are notorious for being different, not only Lot# to Lot#, but from the same keg, can, or other from the same lot#. This is why I take ALL RL POWDERS and blend all of it together, then test that blend. In other words for example 20 lbs in a clean 5 gallon bucket, mix it up good, and then repackage and label it properly.............. So yes, I will post some data for you, but be extremely cautious.............

Thanks for this. Never heard of this before. I use a lot of RL 15 and once a load is worked up I generally have just stuck with it (with good/safe results). A bit scary.

 

[michael458]

Thanks for this. Never heard of this before. I use a lot of RL 15 and once a load is worked up I generally have just stuck with it (with good/safe results). A bit scary.

Indeed it can get a little scary........... Be weary of all the RL Powders. Not saying they are bad, because they are not, I use a lot of RL Powders for some of my top best loads, however, you have to know how to handle them, and there can be differences from keg to keg, can to can in them.

I was doing some of the first Load Data and Pressure data in 500 MDM, I tested some RL 10X with 500 gr CEB Solids.....In 2010 I loaded 102/RL 10X and it gave me 2617 fps at 62000 PSI, in a 20 inch gun!!!!!! OMG, that was STUPID, insane....... 100/RL 10X gave me 2580 fps at 59000 PSI.... And this was real time data. Was checked several times to be sure. Now think about this, 2600 fps with a 500 gr CEB Solid...... This was truly the Hammer of Thor X10. HEH.... I was testing one 5 lb Can of RL 10X.

Well, that 5 lb can eventually went dry. In 2011 I started working with a new 5lb Can. I was LUCKY to say the least, because I started testing some new Horneber 500 MDM brass I just received, so I started out VERY LOW charges with the 500 MDM and noticed that there was some issues, this Horneber head stamped brass would not take much to get sticky...... ??? Now I was down in the low 90 -95 gr RL 10X doing this work, I tested some RUM 500 MDM brass, and it was not so happy either, it was getting sticky......... In the end, I learned quickly I could not exceed 88/RL 10X for 2410 fps.........The equal for that same velocity with the old can was 94 gr, 6 gr difference. Had I busted out with a 102 gr then I might could have had some serious issues. I was lucky to have started low testing the Horneber brass, just pure stupid luck.

After this, and some more investigation, I had to pull ALL the data for all RL 10X loads, fortunately I had a close watch on all 500 MDM rifles and other owners, so that data never got passed along or used.

I still use a lot of RL 10X, it is the top load for my 223s with 50 Raptors, but at 24 gr there is just not too much difference in pressures at those lower charges........ I still blend 20++ lbs of RL 10X together however, then test the blend, and use that test until I run out, then we start again.

I also use a lot of RL 7 for many different things, it is a superb powder for lighter bullets in larger bores, it is also a top powder for my 308 Winchester loads with 100 Raptors. But it has to be blended many lbs together and tested.

I don't use as much RL 15, but I treat it the same as the others, I blend, test and use from that blend.

But that one experience with that Magic Keg of RL 10X in the 500 MDM has left a mark. I still look for that Magic powder, I have tried many blends of RL 15, RL 7, RL 10X, IMR 8208, H-4198 and others blended together to see if I could match or find it. To date, I have not found that magic blended powder, but I have done rather well at matching the best of other powders, but if you can only equal, why waste time to blend it....... LOL...... Still looking for that Magic Powder.......... Somewhere there has to be a magic formula, just have to keep looking................


I have seen some minor differences in other powders, and I too blend many of those, but I have not experienced as much difference as I have with the RL powders.

 

[Ivorygrip]

I am in the process of preparing for my upcoming trip to Africa. I am considering using Cutting Edge bullets for my 500 Nitro Express double barrel rifle. Has anyone here used these bullets before, especially the .510 475 gr Safari Raptor? The reviews have been excellent, and the slow-motion video in ballistic gel is quite impressive. You can find more information through the link below.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/prod...tor-nitro-express?_pos=3&_fid=08f6de1c0&_ss=c

View attachment 594088View attachment 594089

I had super good results with the 475gr tipped raptor and 510gr combo out of my Merkel. Regulation was very easy. currently getting 2275fps with the 475gr and 2250 with the 510gr.
the results are epic on game! Can’t say enough good about them…

 

[krusin]

Thank you for your response. I presume you have a .500 NE rifle. So, I have some follow-up questions. Mine is regulated with 570 gr bullets, 106 gr of H-4350 at 2150 fps. You said that for you, regulation was easy. Was the initial regulation for your rifle done with heavier bullets? Could you please share the bullet weight, powder type/charge, and velocity, so I can have some ideas about the direction I need to go for my loads? Also, what powder are you using for Raptors now? And how many grains? I do understand that I can't just copy your loads. Every rifle, every powder in every keg is different. I need to start low and go up, measuring velocities and looking for signs of high chamber pressure. Your data will be used as rough guidance. Please PM me if you are not comfortable share this info with entire forum for legal reasons.
Thank you.

 

[Ivorygrip]

No problem I’ll pm you my number and we can talk I can also email you some links and helpful stuff

 

[Ivorygrip]

A side note on the 475 raptor, I was part of a group following a wounded zebra that a friend had shot low in the front leg about 8” under where it shoulda been. After a lot of running around in the bushes at the closing minutes of shooting light I seen him standing under a tree on the edge of a mopani thicket with the body facing dead away and his head turned to the side at about 95 yards, with the 475 raptor in both barrels I put the front bead at the base of his tail and touched it off, he fell over. Upon inspection there was a entrance about 2” to the left side of his butt hole and when the skinning commenced the core of the raptor was found (looking exactly like the picture at the beg of this thread) under the hide at the base of the neck on the front side of the animal. This was the 2nd animal of the day with the 475s and any hesitation I had with the bullet was very far gone.
Now about zebras, they have a sectional density higher than some bullets made today, in other words they are a very stout critter, basically a badger with hooves and stripes and for that bullet to penetrate 70 plus inches in a straight line from stern to stem of a zebra is one of the most impressive things I’ve ever seen from a bullet.