Lion hunting SA

[PARA45]

We forgot the CRF vs. pushfeed.

 

[TTundra]

I KNEW IT! But the buffalo I shot with my R458 this year said he thought it was an excellent choice! Haha!

Wait a minute....We have been told a 458wm, let alone out of a PF will have the Buffalo laughing at you...the Nile will run dry...and you know, pretty much end of the world...

Oh wait, it actually works perfectly well!

 

[LivingTheDream]

Just want to point out that no one disagreed that hiring a prostitute is cheaper than marrying a whore. So at least we have that going for us.

 

[PietVis]

Question - Has anyone ever wondered why there are so few African Outfitters, PHs and Hunters participating on the Africa Hunting forum? That is apart from the purely marketing aspect.

 

[Flewis]

No, but I’m happy for the ones have.

 

[Hunt anything]

Just maybe they have enough sense not to alienate possible future clients but I do like to hear their insight when they do chime in. Really like to see what @spike.t from Zambia says and Lon from Zimbabwe days but I don’t remember his outfit though.

 

[WAB]

7x57 is only good for stopping house cats. But it does an excellent job at that!

If Bell could do it, I can do it! Hold
my beer and watch this!

 

[JHT]

Just want to point out that no one disagreed that hiring a prostitute is cheaper than marrying a whore. So at least we have that going for us.

So long as you hire the prostitute BEFORE marrying the whore. Doing it the other way around compounds things.

 

[LivingTheDream]

So long as you hire the prostitute BEFORE marrying the whore. Doing it the other way around compounds things.

I think it depends on how much you value opportunity costs. The marriage is probably a sunk cost so it really becomes the time value and present value of money.

I bet Hunter Biden's accountant could probably tell us.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

There is a book published recently
Released-captive bred to truly wild

This is proof that captive bred lions can be reintroduced into the wild

Im not getting into this mudslinging contest just pointing out an absolute fact that many deny

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

There is a book published recently
Released-captive bred to truly wild

This is proof that captive bred lions can be reintroduced into the wild

Im not getting into this mudslinging contest just pointing out an absolute fact that many deny

I think “can” is the is the key word here. They can be, but are they and if they are then how many are? Do the ends justify the means?

 

[mark-hunter]

This is proof that captive bred lions can be reintroduced into the wild

When I joined this forum, some years ago and before my first safari, I got interested in this subject.
My research around gave me the same conclusion.

CB Lions can be reintroduced in the wild, it is just a matter of utilizing this option and this resource.

I am on email list of number of outfitters that periodically send me various hunt offers.

Just today, I received an offer to hunt warthogs in Mauritania.
I went to research about the country and what can be expected there.

So, as per information available, antelope species are mainly shot out there and extinct, and last lion was killed in 1970.
So, there are warthogs available.

So for countries like this, if there is ever to be created a reintroduction plan, lions are available from CBL populations.
Of course, for reintroduction of apex predator, precondition will be having good population of prey species. Some as well can be reintroduced from captivity.
But bottom line, from this story is - there is lack of initiative and lack of program to reintroduce the wild game in some countries. This is the issue.

 

[BRICKBURN]

There is a book published recently
Released-captive bred to truly wild

This is proof that captive bred lions can be reintroduced into the wild

Im not getting into this mudslinging contest just pointing out an absolute fact that many deny

Book release
https://www.plbforlions.org/pages/press-release

PhD Thesis on the subject
https://scholar.ufs.ac.za/items/197313b3-82f9-4896-a95b-cc3804d5aae2

 

[TTundra]

There is a book published recently
Released-captive bred to truly wild

This is proof that captive bred lions can be reintroduced into the wild

Im not getting into this mudslinging contest just pointing out an absolute fact that many deny

I don't think anyone denied that. In fact, I believe all here recognized there are captive bred lions released onto managed ranches with intent to grow into self sustainable populations and that constitutes an agreed upon conservation status.

I would also say that most agree that given enough time, most captive bred non domesticated game can be returned to the wild if done correctly.

Where the debate lies is in the practice of breeding solely for CBL shooting, with constant human interaction through development and then subsequent use in the "cub petting" industry and the short time from release to harvest. Less than natural generic selection also doesn't help the cause, and that goes for CBL as well as ranch monstrosity whitetail deer in the US.

In reading the thesis provided by @BRICKBURN , those researchers in the book you mentioned had the lions out of the breeding facility for 4 weeks at one location and the 6 weeks at another prior to full release and for 6 weeks post release they stayed within 300 meters of their former holding area. To me, that signifies at least one point of the study in which a mandatory minimum time frame from release to client on the ground should be 16 weeks, but 24-26 would be better based their kill and feeding sightings.

Will the RSA CBL outfits ever allow CBL's out for minimum 5-6 months before letting a client after them? That would be a good start based on the evidence from that thesis.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

yes they can be reintroduced and thrive
u need the area to release them on though
would i want a population on my property... no thx (maybe if i had 100 000 hactares)
a small pride of lions will kill and eat a whole lot in a year
if an outfitter let out say 5 male lions on his property for 5-6 months before they were hunted. the price to hunt these animals would rise significantly and i mean significantly to cover the costs of all the prey they would have killed before they are hunted.

 

[spike.t]

Just maybe they have enough sense not to alienate possible future clients but I do like to hear their insight when they do chime in. Really like to see what @spike.t from Zambia says and Lon from Zimbabwe days but I don’t remember his outfit though.

Not sure if @Piet-Vis is referring to this thread or just in general on here......

 

[TTundra]

yes they can be reintroduced and thrive
u need the area to release them on though
would i want a population on my property... no thx (maybe if i had 100 000 hactares)
a small pride of lions will kill and eat a whole lot in a year
if an outfitter let out say 5 male lions on his property for 5-6 months before they were hunted. the price to hunt these animals would rise significantly and i mean significantly to cover the costs of all the prey they would have killed before they are hunted.

This is, I believe, where the debate originates. Most outfits likely do not want, or cannot support, this style of release of CBL to compete against the extremely low fees of these shoots offered by other outfitters.

In no disrespect, you're statement and expertise (in which I do know from your postings you are a highly qualified PH and outfit) substantiates the claim of put and take hunting for CBL. The costs are this low because the CBL is with certainly not on the property long enough to cause profit loss high enough to affect the outfit. I cant imagine $3000 all in for a CBL Lioness hunt has have much room profit loss.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Not sure if @Piet-Vis is referring to this thread or just in general on here......

I think it's a general remark Mike.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.........
u need the area to release them on though
would i want a population on my property... no thx (maybe if i had 100 000 hactares)
....

We can't even tolerate a Cow Moose sitting on someones lawn. General Panic sets in when a juvenile Cougar roams down a river basin into the city.

Appropriate space is certainly a driving issue for maintaining an intact ecosystem that could include large carnivores.

 

[spike.t]

I think it's a general remark Mike.

OK....